Overdone it?

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  • Cheers Bob - it's still looking like only a slim chance of me getting there.

    Well done on the 5m Skinny, I guess the new forefoot style is mullering the calves sounds like the other issue has gone.

    10m v easy this morning for me. I kind of expected to run yesterday morning Kevin but delivery didn't come until 12 (knew it) and motivation vanished.

    4m later to catch up a bit.

    Sounds like a very hectic weekend McF, then tempo plus super long run! We need to know what kind of tempo though! ;) Hope you got the nap down.
  • McFloozeMcFlooze ✭✭✭
    No nap. Lou had one though  :#

    It was run at Daniels' threshold pace which is modified for being longer. 
  • McFloozeMcFlooze ✭✭✭
    Glad to see you're still going, Skinny. A run is a lovely thing for making you feel good, and five miles is a lot better than nothing. 
  • Big-Bad-BobBig-Bad-Bob ✭✭✭
    Cheers Skinny & McF - good to 'talk' again.

    :-)

    No response to my enquiry yet re: Wednesday, Muddy.

    Sounds like a pretty hardcore weekend all round, McF! And Skinny - yes, it was just missing those good buzz running vibes that got me back into it in late summer 2017 after getting one injury too many in the spring and having mentally hung up the trainers for good I was so despondent. Just the odd very short run here or there, and then some more regular running on hols in Norfolk even though it was still pretty uncomfortable if not painful. It progressed from there until I looked back one week a few months later, and realised I'd done well over 30 miles, two sessions, a long run and realised that not only did it look like a training week rather than just running, but that the discomfort was slowly subsiding too. Hope you can creep back in similar fashion. 

    BTW - I'm not in the shape yet this year that I was when posting some of those times in 2018, but hope I'm perhaps aerobically stronger than I've been since early 2015 when I went on a dizzying PB spree as I started reintroducing the faster stuff on the back of a solid winter. Won't be doing that again, but we'll see where it takes me, though not setting any expectations for race times yet.

    Anyway...speaking of racing - having survived a hangover fuelled light volume VO2 max session yesterday (4 x 0.5m reps @ 5:47/m) and some strides on a recovery run today, I've entered the 800m at Charnwood tomorrow and should have an old pal to chase round in my heat. Tentatively looking forward to it...I think.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hurrah,  a return from Bob and already some nice long posts to read through! Hopefully I'll see you Wednesday night, Bob. Good luck in the 800.

    Nice 11, Kevin. Yes those reps are just enough to raise the pulse but not leave you doubled over.

    Sods law re the delivery, muddy. Looks like you sort of made up for it in the end with some other miles.

    A rather hectic weekend, Mcf with some very good running. Happy birthday to Lou!

    Skinny, good stuff, starting to get to a decent distance!

    It's been a while since I have had to address that many people on this thread about their running!

    Just a spin class Saturday morning followed by an early start on the booze for the footy and a late finish as a result of Eurovision. I was pretty rough yesterday. Managed to force myself out early evening for a  10k easy run though.

  • Hello Bob!  

    An easy 10.5 miler for me last night to round off the week ending on 43.7 miles - my highest weekly mileage to date.  Feeling a little tired today (more due to no sleep on Saturday I think) so giving it a rest.  

    This easy effort stuff is so enjoyable and has really changed how I train considering most of my training is easy.  Really looking forward to the quality session this week.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Decent mileage, David. Yes I do agree with the enjoyment from the easy miles. If I didn't run at easy many runs such as yesterday when I was hungover just wouldn't happen. Knowing that the planned run isn't going to really trouble me makes it far easier to drag myself out on days like that.
  • Completely agree DT.  Far more enjoyable and therefore sustainable.

    Anyone here have any experience with longer distance races?  Whilst doing another marathon doesn't really inspire me (for the moment) I would be quite keen to see how I'd fare at a 50k trail event.  The aim would be to just complete it and then perhaps look at longer distances, we'll see.  
  • Anyone here have any experience with longer distance races?  Whilst doing another marathon doesn't really inspire me (for the moment) I would be quite keen to see how I'd fare at a 50k trail event.  The aim would be to just complete it and then perhaps look at longer distances, we'll see.  


    No.

    Re easy running and being enjoyable, for most previous comebacks I used to flog out a 14 or similar fairly early on in the comeback just to make the 5 to 8 miles seem short again however I'm not able to do that this time.

    So whilst 5 miles is enjoyable it also feels like each mile is still a long way which is weird when 5 mile easy runs used to be almost a rest day.

    Planning to parkrun on Saturday this week.

  • I know what you mean Skinny.  Time on feet is obviously longer too.  The only time I felt a 15 mile run went quickly was when I turned it into a progression.  I think that was actually one of your suggestions too.

    I'd like to turn one of my easy runs in the week to a recovery run @ 9+ m/mi.  That way I'd be able to get in more mileage and another session per week.
  • Hi Lit

    Just a quick thank you for giving me the details of the crazy barefoot running coach in the north west.

    He is running a day long course in August for a group (£125) but he's offered to do me a 2 hour private session for £60 so I've booked for 12th June. Based on your partner's description of him it could be a fun couple of hours :-). Then the plan is to have a follow up hour a month later.

    Then if I can't get enough of him I could still sign up to the whole day course :-) but hopefully that won't be necessary.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭


    Tommy I'm in regular contact with anyway, and hope his early morning parkrun outing was bearable after our 'exertions' at the cricket yesterday...I was very glad of the lie in!


    It was fine...I was a bit lethargic for the first half mile or so but then picked it up and ran with the 22 minute pacer for a couple of miles before catching up with our national v40 orienteering champion and running it in with him (he was taking it easy on account of a tight calf but couldn't bring himself to DNF a parkrun).

    Completely agree DT.  Far more enjoyable and therefore sustainable.

    Anyone here have any experience with longer distance races?  Whilst doing another marathon doesn't really inspire me (for the moment) I would be quite keen to see how I'd fare at a 50k trail event.  The aim would be to just complete it and then perhaps look at longer distances, we'll see.  

    Yes.

    I've done a couple of off road ultras (31 and 36 miles) and enjoyed them both. Pound for pound my 31 mile race is probably my best ever race result; I finished 7th and was remarkably consistent pacing wise. I found I recovered from these races much quicker compared to recovering from road marathons.

    Good work at the weekend, McF. Seems like you're fully recovered from Manchester now.

    Hope you find the crazy barefoot man useful, Skinny.

    DT/Muddy (and Bob) - I'm coming down to watch the 5 miler on Wednesday but not running as I'm probably going to do a fell race tomorrow night.

    Talking of fell races I ran in one last Thursday which was great fun. Think I finished in 35th out of about 200, some knackeringly steep climbs and quad thrashing descents, think about 1100ft of climbing in the end. Lovely evening and some great views (although I couldn't really enjoy them that much as I was trying to get my lungs out of my throat much of the time).

    Good luck at Charnwood this evening, Bob.  

  • Nice Tommy, what ultras did you do?  I'd be looking at a flat one to start off with but don't mind a few moderate inclines.  Just nothing too brutal.  Preferably a point to point rather than a lap based race too.

    Skinny - hope the 2 hour session proves fruitful.
  • Big-Bad-BobBig-Bad-Bob ✭✭✭
    Big miles that David - it's great the way that you've taken the good advice you've had here on board, and are now reaping the rewards. Keep it up! N.B. I find around the 45m mark is about my weekly limit before I start risking fatigue, injury and illness. Doesn't mean it will do for you of course, but just monitor that tiredness.
    Skinny - Sounds good, hope it gives you another leg up towards a full comeback.
    Tommy - Glad you got through parkrun ok. Good luck on the fells tomorrow night - see you and DT Wednesday. If I can't get a place I'll head off round the race route in advance, do some 5k'ish pace reps to get back to the finish line in time for the leaders, then try to get to Long Eaton on Sat for a parkrun blast instead. Still no reply to my message, Muddy - so might be a bit of a risk to make the journey, though in the absence of an entry, you'd be welcome to join me for the session in the highly unlikely event you wanted an 80+ mile round trip for the privilege! 
    N.B. Omitted to mention SG in my first post back the other day - always good to see his contributions. The sparky exchanges of views with Muddy on here and on his own thread are always a good read.
    Right, time for a race report I think...
  • Big-Bad-BobBig-Bad-Bob ✭✭✭
    So, believe it or not, discounting my disastrous dabble with Indoor racing last autumn, I'd only 'raced' one outdoor 800m (last July) and one outdoor Mile (last August) on the track in almost exactly 3 years...until tonight.
    A pretty pitiful effort for someone who in his own head, still considers himself a track runner. Hmmm. 
    There's not been an awful lot more racing than that even over longer distances, and apart from the odd half decent parkrun, it's a miserable record with no (proper) PBs since September 2015, and frankly the nerves were jangling - indeed you'd need two hands to count the resultant nervous trips to the loo throughout the day.
    Good to see a couple of familiar and friendly faces soon after arriving though, including the old pal I was hoping to chase round, and sure enough we were down to run in the same heat. After a decent warm up, it's time to get down to the track for some final strides, and a glance round the rest of the field. Apart from Geoff, there's one other (M35) veteran, and the rest are the usual assortment of U15/U17 lads and lasses, which can add a certain random quality to racing that you don't necessarily get in an all adult field.
    One friendly, strapping lad asks me what my PB is, and I tell him 2:14, but it's a few years ago now, so anything close to 2:20 will be a result tonight. That's pretty quick he offers generously, though when I ask him what his best is, he tells me that he's already ran 2:10 for his school earlier today, so looking to 'cruise round in about 2:15 tonight'...okey-dokey! I point to Geoff, and tell him that he's the fast old man in the field, much to Geoff's protests...chuckle.
    Turns out Geoff is also getting over a calf strain, one he picked up at the World Indoors in March, and moreover has a hard raced 5k at the Masters Relays on Saturday in his legs, but I know he's hard as nails and that I won't go far wrong by pacing off him if I can.
    Some unwelcome hot sunshine breaks through the clouds as we're called to the line, but that apart the conditions are still, mild and just about perfect for racing. I still wonder what I'm doing there though, and take a few more deep breaths to quell the nerves. 'Just run hard', I recall another pal telling me earlier when I said I'd got the jitters. Quite.

    BANG - 10 of us are off from the curve, and I'm on the inside from Lane 2 so in a good spot to make for the rail. The randomness of racing with youngsters nearly bites me straight away though, as with a nose in front one of them they make an initial move across me before thankfully thinking better of it, and apart from a chopped stride there's no harm done. Geoff pulls in a more sensible distance ahead, and I have my vest to chase. 'Strapping lad' is off like a hare in front of the field, and smile at his 2:15 'cruise' prediction - he looks, smooth, strong and he's going to be running much faster than that.
    The early mover soon overtakes me, and with a decent gap this time, tucks in between Geoff and me. 'Just run hard'. A quick glance behind me on the crown of the top bend confirms my suspicion that I'm running dead last, but I'm still in touch, feel like I'm running strongly and it's beginning to hurt, but so far so good.
    I continue to chase hard down the straight, and take the bell in high 68 / low 69 which is probably a decent balance between ambition and not blowing up later for a first race of the season. Remember to up the effort levels at this point, as although it now hurts a lot, anything less and what will always be a slightly slower 2nd lap if you're doing it right, will swiftly become a bungled race and a waste of your early efforts. 
    Still in touch with Geoff as we head up the back straight, the other veteran just ahead of him, and 'early mover' is rapidly coming back to me. As I think about making a move to go past however, she inexplicably moves out into Lane 2 leaving me with a choice of either going very wide, or making a cheeky move down the inside. It's probably not worth the latter for a low key race though, so decide to play nicely, and bide my time until we're round the final bend, when I can drift as wide as I need to before hammering the final straight. 
    Summon myself for that final big effort, f**k me this hurts, and the legs are heavy but there's still something there, so swing out into Lane 3, and am soon past early mover. Realise that Geoff's Saturday efforts are perhaps catching up with him too so kick again, and once I'm past him, I just focus on the line and am too addled by lactic to notice how close I am to the rest of the field - and also forget to take note when the results are up.
    Stop the watch at 2:20 and bits, soon confirmed by the electronic timing at 2:20.84.

    That's a tenth slower than my one 800m outing last year which came after some racing, a series of sharpening parkruns and many faster sessions. It also comfortably beats my first 800 in 2015 (2:22.3) which although also coming off not a huge number of faster sessions, was only a month after setting my 38:24 PB over 10k. I'd taken the best part of 8 seconds off that 2015 opener by September, even with a sciatica interrupted June and July, so not a bad starting point for this year...

    Have been enjoying my reacquaintance with middle distance runner cough all evening though, it really does reach the parts of your lungs that other running does not reach!

     :) 
  • Well done Bob - it's been a while!

    69,72 - excellently swift.

    What time did 'Strapping lad' finish with?

  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Nice Tommy, what ultras did you do?  I'd be looking at a flat one to start off with but don't mind a few moderate inclines.  Just nothing too brutal.  Preferably a point to point rather than a lap based race too.

    Skinny - hope the 2 hour session proves fruitful.

    I did Dukeries 30 (31 miles) and Round Ripon 35 (36 miles). Dukeries is probably perfect as a first ultra as it's pretty flat, very well marked and mainly on forest paths and tracks so not too gruelling. Ripon was fairly hilly and a bit tough going in places through mud etc.

    I've also done 70km and 60km as part of a team at a couple of the 24 hour events. A lot of the solo runners doing multiple laps do look miserable.

    Nicely done, Bob. An excellent return to track racing! 

  • Big-Bad-BobBig-Bad-Bob ✭✭✭
    Cheers both. I think I recall seeing 2:06.5 on the clock, Skinny - which I presumed was for 'Strapping Lad', but too busy after the race gasping at first, and then once able, gassing to be certain!
  • McFloozeMcFlooze ✭✭✭
    Nice one, Bob!  Bodes well for rest of summers return to form.  On the few 800/1500's that I've run I've been amazed by the amount of coughing that ensues.  And the taste of blood in the mouth is "interesting" as well.  I must admit I do enjoy it though.  Painful but over quickly. There are some open events this summer that I might do if I get myself sorted.  I've started doing a bit of R paced running at mile pace in my plan so that counts as preparation, eh?   

    David - have you done much trail running?  There are some nice longer trail races near us which might be a good start.  Naunton nearly 19 and Broadways half or full marathon seem to be very well enjoyed (Lou has done both) and a good intro.  Wyre Forest half is also a nice one, if hilly.  Lou's done a couple of ultras - one in the Peak District and one in the Cotswolds that he liked as well, both quite lumpy i think but not as brutal as some.  Will send him on for details.  I'm inclined to think 26.2 is quite far enough but clearly others feel differently.  There's also the Coventry way near us which doesn't sound that exciting but is on some lovely footpaths around Warwickshire and not too hilly.  
  • Skinny Fetish FanSkinny Fetish Fan ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    McFlooze said:

    I'm inclined to think 26.2 is quite far enough but clearly others feel differently.  There's also the Coventry way near us which doesn't sound that exciting but is on some lovely footpaths around Warwickshire and not too hilly.  
    Is it not a different pacing experience though? My understanding (although I've never done an ultra) is that a marathon is a running exercise in survival at quite a decent pace whereas a trail ultra will involve a bit of walking and will more be about getting from A to B with more of a slant towards enjoyment (whilst still leading to the loss of several toenails obviously)?
  • Nice report Bob, enjoyed that.  I'm keeping a close eye on my weekly mileage and slowly ramping this up.

    Mcf - thank you for the recommendations.  I'll look these up. I made the mistake of typing in 'Ultra race' into YouTube.  Before I knew it I was watching videos on 100 and 240 mile races across America.  Inspiring isn't the word.

    I haven't done any trail running to date.  My Vitality insurance benefits have all just refreshed so I'm treating myself to a pair of trail shoes later today.  On Saturday I'm off to Looe and have already plotted a decent looking route so we will see.  It's right along the SW coast and looks stunning.

    Thanks again.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    An excellent return to form, Bob, both in racing and report writing terms!

    Tommy, good luck in the trail race tonight.

    I have no aspirations in terms of trail or ultra running and certainly don't see myself combining both together.

    Some easy running and strides last night and a rest day today. Hoping to pb tomorrow night and ideally run sub 31.

  • Skinny Fetish FanSkinny Fetish Fan ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    DT19 said:

    Some easy running and strides last night and a rest day today. Hoping to pb tomorrow night and ideally run sub 31.

    Good luck DT - if you are close to 30 mins but just going to miss out then 30:14 is my PB just to keep you pushing right to vomit levels >:)
  • Excellent work Bob in all respects, Strapping Lad sounds like he'd go well at Aintree :)

    Steady 5 for me yesterday, felt bouncy.

    Today it's round the Reservoir multiple times with the flies out in force: it's a runchtime special. Yum. Not.



  • https//www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/48306722

    Did someone say they were looking for some ultra running challenges?

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    skinny, it is unlikely I will be pushing that time. Whilst over the last few years I have concentrated on the marathon and taken 21 minutes off my first attempt, I have not had the same gains elsewhere and the shorter the race the less the gains have been. My 5m pb was set weeks before VMLM 17 in 3.04.45. This year I was 7 minutes faster so 20 seconds per mile. I'll be happy if I am 4 seconds a mile faster tomorrow so I go below 31.
  • Skinny your link doesn't seem to work for me.  All I can see is a picture of someone eating eggs, beans and toast.

    Interesting stat for the day:

    Total mileage for 2018 = 576
    Total mileage for 2019 = 579 :smile:
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    David if you are looking for a non-ultra trail race to get started, I seem to remember the Belper 30k in August as being pretty easy, as long-ish trail races go.
  • Thanks lit, I'll check it out.  I'm definitely looking for something to cut my teeth on and 30k might be a good start
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