Overdone it?

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  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    Great to see you back Muddy, hopefully this is the start of your long awaited return. 

    Congrats on the sub 18 DT. I'm sure there would be another 20-30 seconds to come off that at the right time. Good luck for the sub 60 attempt!

    I'm still ticking over at 35ish mile weeks and seem to be making some kind of progress. Will probably pop down to parkrun to see where I'm at this weekend.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Sounds good, Mr V. I can see you sessions looking a bit sharper than they were a while back.

    Muddy, any reaction or is the comeback on?

    Conditions currently look perfect for Sunday. Off out shortly for 10 x 3 minute session. After that it's all easy into Sunday.
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    @SkinnyPart2 I think the most important thing is getting the recovery in from those big runs. Mixing it up is generally more preferable to me, with recovery planned accordingly, but I could often hit 40 mile weeks with lots of small doubles and it didn't seem to massively affect endurance up to half marathon.

    The 5 miles on Saturday left me feeling like I'd ran a marathon so I rested until last night then did 30 mins run/walk very awkwardly on the treadmill. 3.5 miles.

    @DT19 Everything is pretty sore but I had a poke around at my achilles this morning and that didn't feel as bad as before. My right calf that had the painful achilles and burning peroneal feels quite battered .. about 4/10 pain level.

    I'm thinking I can run again this week, so that would make 3 runs in the space of a week and so would suggest a recovery is still on. So hard to say how it will go though as I've been here before.

    Edit: ps. I have an entry for the Derby 10 but doubt I will be able to run 10 miles in one big lump by Sunday.



  • DT, fantastic park run pb, sets you up for the 10m sub 60.

    Skinny think i prefer a break rather than running 7 days even with less daily miles.

    Muddy, great to see you posting, fingers crossed for more running.

    8mls Monday back out tonight for 8mls
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muddy, hopefully you can sensibly build on it. I recall, as I built my running back up last summer after injury, doing a 10 min run and realising that running is hard work on the body.

    Looks like you are ticking along well, Kevin.

    Ticking along now the next few days to get tapered for Derby.
  • Almost 5 months on from my hip fracture and I've been given the go-ahead to start light jogging :) Went out with Ms Hew this afternoon and did a session from Couch to 5k, Week 1.  8 x (1min jog, 90sec walk) sandwiched between 5 min walks to warm up and cool down.  All went well so I will start on Week 2 on Monday.  The comeback trail commences!
  • That’s really good news Pete. Good luck getting back to it. Has Mrs Hew always been a runner ?

    And also good luck to DT in the Derby 10 tomorrow. Don’t go too far under 60!

    I managed about 11 miles of run walk in 3 x 30 min sessions on the treadmill this week and then did 5 and a bit miles of proper running with warm up, parkrun (20.36) and cool-down this morning. I think the improvement came about purely from getting into my short Ron Hill racing shorts (everything else was in the wash). Felt quite tough in the middle and splits were 6.41, 6.47, 6.39 and 6.15 for the run in.
  • Excellent news Pete!

    Moving in right direction muddy.

    Yes good luck today DT although you might already have finished depending on start time!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    That sounds positive pete, keep us updated. 

    Muddy, good bit of progress already. Don't worry, I don't think I'll ever trouble any of your other gold cells. 

    Skinny, 11am start so you got there in time. 

    Really didn't think I was on for this today. I've been unwell since last Sunday. Every couple of Autums I get really weird symptoms where my eyes feel battered and I really struggle to focus and I feel permanently nauseous. Not had it since 2018, but it kicked in last Saturday. Doctors think it might be some form of hay-fever. 

    Anyway I've been focusing on early nights, keeping fluids up etc then randomly today I woke feeling 90% better. 

    Got there early for a decent warm up. Set off at mid 5.50 pace and bounced around there the whole time. Mile 5 though takes you into country park grounds which starts off on grass then trail then until about the 9m marker loose gravel paths. This really took it out of me and by the 9m marker I was hanging on, but had the comfort of banked time. That came in 6.08 for the only mile not to start with a 5. Finished in 59.14 on provisional results so 3.57 pb but most importantly sub 60. 

    Pleased with that as it tells me I'm also still in sub 80 half shape. Though I don't think I'm currently quite in same shape as end May when I ran my half pb. 

    Just a 5m race mid December to tick off sub 30 and pb at every distance for the year. 
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    DT - Another one ticked off..Well done! 7 seconds better than my PB as well  :)

    Muddy - Good to see you slowly building back. Big improvement over the course of one week as well. 

    Roughly 37 miles for me this week including a parkrun that was much slower than I was expecting. I wasn't really feeling it so I might have another go next week.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, Mr v. What I need to do though is better your 10k time! 

    Was still a decent time though at parkrun, Mr v, albeit I guess a distance off where you were a couple of years ago. 
  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    30 miles this week - quite a lot for me! 14 miler today (longest run in a while) on hilly trails in beautiful autumnal weather. 1200ft ascent so happy with 8:28 miling at a very steady HR. Felt good! 

    I’ve signed up for Manchester marathon now and the target - predictably - is sub 3. We’ll see. 

    DT: excellent work on the 10 miler.

    Pete, Muddy: hope the recovery continues to go well for both of you.
  • Peter great to hear you are back on the running trail

    Muddy, progress off little running. 

    Mr V still decent mileage to build on

    DT, fantastic time and pb's in every distance this year once the final race is done, amazing achievement.

    Manged 32miles this week, 10 miles on Saturday, hoping to get that up to 14 by the end of the year.
  • @MrV When did you last do a parkrun ? I'd completely forgotten that 'blowing up 1 mile in' feeling that you have to be ready to tolerate to get the best out of yourself.

    Good mileage @MYOX - I think you have a very natural ability with your 5k times off low mileage. The key thing will be to test out sooner rather than later whether this translates up the distances so you can adjust your training accordingly.

    Great result @DT19 - I think a 10 mile race is brilliant for half marathon fitness so I wouldn't expect it to be long before you're tuned for that distance.

    I've got very limited time this week but hoping to get more running in while managing the calf soreness - a small amount remains from Saturday's efforts. Maybe 20 miles will be feasible this week ...


  • Afternoon all, 

    Pete - That's great news, really pleased to hear it. 

    Muddy - good to see you back to it. Hopefully the ankle has held up after the weekends efforts. 

    Mr V - good consistent mileage. I think it takes a couple of goes at parkrun / 5K to really get the best out of yourself. 

    DT - Sounds like another well executed race, congrats on the sub 60 and PB. 

    I've been rumbling along with 20 odd miles a week and some gym sessions, really think they're helping with leg and core strength. Managed a 20:01 parkrun on top of a wind blasted cliff a couple of weeks ago which was half on the coast path and half over a field. 

    Yesterday was the 2nd race of the XC league, the course was pretty uninspiring basically 3.5 laps of some sports pitches with a few little hills to make it a bit more interesting. The race also doubled up as the Cornwall County Champs which attracted all manner of serious dudes. Got dragged out much quicker than I'd have liked with a 6:15 first mile, which is probably my road 10k pace. Anyway, settled down after that and despite the fast start was working my way through the field. I found I was overtaking quite a few on the uphill sections and then maintaining the gap on the flat and the downs. Into the fourth mile and I was just behind a group with a few that had beaten me at the last race. Managed to bridge the gap but could feel that they were slowing so just went straight on by. The last 3/4 of a mile were a bit painful but and I could feel a couple of blokes on my shoulder as we got into the finish straight, mustered a sprint finish to hold them off. 

    ~6:30 pace for the 5.4 miles which is pretty decent going for me over XC (although it wasn't that muddy). Ended up finished a few places lower than the previous race but I was ahead of plenty that had beaten me previously so think this was a better performance. Calves a little tender today but think that's due to not being used to wearing spikes. Anyway couple of weeks to recover until before the next one, which hopefully has a bit more of an inspiring course.  
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    Tommy - nice report there. 6.30s is pretty good going for XC. Sounds like the gym work is paying off. I'm too lazy these days to do much/ any core or strength work and I'm sure I pay the price for it.

    DT - I don't think you should have too much trouble beating my 10k time, it was always my weakest one. The 5 mile one could be close though! 

    Muddy - I have actually done a few recently, so should have become somewhat reaccustomed to the pain by now! I think it was just an off day. Hopefully you get through your 20 miles unscathed this week.

    Kevin - are you building up your long run with a target in mind?

    Myox - Sounds good - what kind of mileage do you think you will aim for in your Manchester prep?

    7 miles @6.42 for me today as I'm trying to focus on aerobic development a bit. It's so long since I've done decent, consistent mileage that I feel aerobic is the thing I should be concentrating on. 
  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    4 easy miles this eve with the dog.

    Excellent report Tommy. I’ve never done any cross country but I’m beginning to feel tempted. Do you need to be in a club usually?

    @muddyfunster Yes, I’ve been thinking this too: I really don’t have any idea how fast I could manage for 13 miles or so. Won’t have time for any racing before Christmas as I’m moving house, but I’d like to race a 10k and a half marathon in the new year. Based in Kendal but would prefer something flat so not sure how realistic this is without a fair amount of travel. 

    @mr v: 7 at 6:42 is very solid training indeed. I’m going to try to get to a point where I’m running ~30 miles a week, including a regular long run of 10miles plus. In February I’ll reassess. I’m pretty wary of overtraining or injuring myself, because that’s been the pattern in the past. I must say I also don’t want to stop enjoying running, and I find it pretty difficult to psych myself up for more than 4 or 5 runs a week atm! 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Myox, I'll be at Manchester also. Should be fun! 

    Muddy, I do like a 10 miler, it's like a half without the tough last few miles. I think once I get a decent 6 weeks or so training in, I could hold that pace for a half. 

    Tommy, decent outing at the xc. That's a decent pace, even accounting for fact it wasn't mud and hills, over a non road course. 


    Mr v that's a decent high end aerobic workout. I guess you'd call it 7 at mara pace? 

    Strava says I went through 10k on Sunday in 36.25. However any 10k I race will unlikely measure 6.21 on my GPS so in reality if it were a 10k it would be more like 36 45. 

    Easy 8m yesterday. Out over lunch for a bit of a session, though still some fatigue from Sunday kicking about. 
  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    Messy session today. Tried some half mile threshold efforts at around 5k pace and found it hard! It was a bit blustery so that’s my excuse. Will try a Parkrun this weekend and will go at it full tilt, so I’ll either PB or blow up spectacularly. :)

    Looking forward to Manchester, DT! Currently looking at plans and realising that my current mileage is super low. Not sure how I’ll bump it up to the required levels at the mo: 40 miles in a week seems impossibly remote. Hey ho.
  • Umm ... threshold efforts at 5k pace. Next you'll be running a 5k marathon :)

    Hard efforts the day before a full tilt parkrun !?

    You're clearly young :D

    Bump up the mileage really slowly, no need to panic ... However even 40 mpw is low for a marathon. I think you can get close to that over a couple of months without doing yourself too much damage, just got to make the miles super easy.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes, I'd remove the word 'threshold' from that. 

    Having run 10m last Sunday at threshold, I never want to go near that in training! Not hurt so much in a race in a long while. 

    You'll be surprised, with a 15m long run as a base that leaves 6 days to run 25m. 8m midweek and then you're almost there with 5 days left. Add 30% to both those runs for further into the schedule and it's hard not to run 40m.

    As muddy says, the trick is to make them very easy! 90-120s slower than mara pace. If mara pace is correctly assessed then even 10m at the correct pace should take little out of you. 
  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    36, so… youngish? Don’t really feel that young any more to be fair. I turn 37 the weekend of the Manc Mara incidentally.

    I’ve clearly got no idea what threshold is. To be fair my idea of a hard session is currently mostly feel, and ‘hard’ = low 6s for longer bits and mid 5s for shorter bits: that’s as complicated as it gets! Was trying to run in the 5:20s yesterday because I have crazy dreams of sub 17. 

    Thanks for the advice both. Key is to nail the long run and keep it easy.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I have a recent threshold based anecdote.....

    My garmin detects threshold when I hit it in a run and gives a then threshold pace and hr. 

    This week it indicated detection and offered me 6.14mm for 172 bpm. 3 days earlier I'd run a 10m race at 5.55mm and 178 average bpm. Either the whole concept of what threshold is has just been destroyed or my watch is wrong. 
  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    Morecambe Parkrun for me this morning, but somehow contrived to park at the wrong end of the surprisingly long promenade, which left me (as it turned out) 9 mins to run 2 miles to the start. Needless to say I missed the start by around 5 mins but decided to run anyway.

    Blustery day along the coast which helped me over the initial mile but made the final mile pretty awful. 

    Finished in 17:54 (5:25, 5:42, 6:08, 5:28) though I was doing a fair amount of weaving through runners and the distance came out at 3.12 miles. Pretty happy with that, and can definitely go faster with better conditions and a bit more forward-planning.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Shame you arrived late, Myox. Definitely shows you are a fit bloke. If you can do the mara training to convert up then sub 3 shouldn't be a problem. 

    Late in the week 10k entry as felt good post Derby and weather looked good. Leicestershire 10k in 36.14, so 57s pb with splits of 18.08 and 18.06. 
  • Casually knocking almost a minute off your pb!  Great stuff, DT :)
  • Great stuff DT - bit busy at work but I'll update your last two performances on TTT when I get a minute.

    I didn't get to run my 10 miler - planned to enter on day but there weren't any on the day entries.
     :( Piss poor planning on my part. 
  • Yeah @myox bump the running bit by bit over a couple of months. It might not be overall mileage you will need to tweak as you're in a hilly part of the world, maybe more about accumulating time on your feet. Hard luck on your parkrun attempt but it's still very quick for the training you're putting in. I'm sure scheduling a tough session the day before the run won't have helped, particularly a session targeting a desired pace which may or may not be within reach. The problem with selecting a pace that is far out of reach is that you end up pouring too much damage/fatigue into your body in training, so much so that you need more recovery, or in fact don't recover and just stagnate. I'm very much of the 'train, don't strain' school.

    Well done on the 10k PB DT. Was a lovely fresh morning for it. How was the course ?

    I managed 21 miles last week, none on the treadmill, and none run-walk. I feel shattered today after 7 miles or so long run yesterday.

    DT - that threshold detection is kind of correct, after a race there's lots of waste products dumped in your body which take time to flush out, and your heart is working harder in general in recovery. It shifts the whole curve down, for heart rate and pace.
  • Morning all, 

    DT - awesome again. Quality negative splits too. 

    MYOX- shame about arriving late, still a great time though and definitely more to come when running alongside people of a similar pace not chasing them down.

    With regards to XC, generally they are closed leagues and only open to members of club who sign up to the league. However, some leagues allow 'guests' to run 1 or 2 events per season. Some of the leagues are a ferocious standard; these are usually held on a Saturday and the courses are a bit dull. Whereas some leagues are a bit more low key; typically held on a Sunday morning and a lot more interesting (see muddy and hilly). I'm a fan of cross country but it's not everyone's cup of tea.  

    Muddy - good to see you continuing you recovery with more running and less run-walk etc. 

    Skinny - shame about the 10 miler, I've only ever raced a 10 miler a couple of times, quite liked it as a distance to race. 

    30 odd miles and a couple of gym sessions last week. Going to attempt a grass/mud rep session this week in preparation for the next XC race in a couple of weeks. 
  • MYOXMYOX ✭✭✭
    DT: nice one on the 10k, impressive consistency on the splits!

    Skinny: damn, but sort of glad I’m not the only one whose planning sometimes lets them down. :)

    Muddy: thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I definitely felt that session in my legs, and you’re right that it was probably too fast in any case. Also, nail on head re. hills: I’ve found it quite difficult in the past to judge my training effort given that earlier in the year I was often running <25 miles in a week with >5000ft ascent.

    Tommy: moving to Kendal at the beginning of Sept so may well look for a running club then, thanks for the info.

    Just under 10 miles on hilly trails with a head torch yesterday - a lovely evening. Easy pace (came out at 150 bpm av) and pleased with how I was feeling. Two 30 mile weeks in a row! Unheard of.

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