Overdone it?

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Sounds like good progress on the fell route, Skinny. 

    I managed 46m last week with a 5.5m recovery run yesterday instead of a long, which I'll be doing later. 

    Road relays on Saturday on a long leg which was frankly horrible. Made the mistake of chasing pace on the early climbs and was absolutely ruined by 1.5m. I was close to just stopping many times but dug in and ran surprisingly consistent splits of 6.00, 5.53, 6.00, 5.59, 5.56 and 6.00 for the final 0.35m so 5.35m at 5.59mm average for 32.00. With nearly 300ft of elevation it isn't incomparable to what I was racing at the end of the year on flatter courses,  perhaps a few seconds a mile off pace. 

    With B teams now being allowed to qualify for nationals the task of finishing in top 25 had become tougher, however we just scrapped in finishing 25th. 
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    DT - I will have a go at a few fell races this summer but probably not as many as last year, I'd like to do a few road 5 and 10km's and a few other bits and pieces. Having said that, I think I'm going to enter the race which serves as the qualifier for the fell inter counties which is this coming weekend. If by some miracle I qualify then I'd probably have to do a couple of practice races maybe. 

    That's a good result on the long leg at Sutton Park. I've made the mistake of pushing too hard in that opening mile or so before and it makes for a fairly unpleasant leg. Good team result too. My old club were just behind in 28th, they've also qualified for the Nationals (there's some very strange rules around qualification which I've never fully understood). 

    Skinny - looks like decent progress. How are you enjoying the fell running? Are you tempted by any fell races?

  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    It's hard work and requires a lot of concentration - I'm not sure I'll be able to concentrate at the required level for 50 miles. At the moment I still think fell walking is my preferred choice but if I get a bit stronger and fitter at it then I suppose I'll be able to go further in the same time and it won't feel as hard.

    There is the Threlkeld to Helvellyn and back fell race on 28th May that is about 15 miles and covers 7.5 miles of the 50 mile race route so I'll probably do that although it is my mum's 80th birthday that day so might not work.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I still don't get it Tommy. I thought allowing B teams to qualify meant it was just a straight top 25 in. I got taken apart on my leg by a HP runner.

    Funnily enough, Worcestershire put a post out this week basically asking for volunteers to run in the pending inter counties for them. 

    Solid week so far, 45m and 2 x spin. 10 x 1k Wednesday was reasonable enough then 3m today to dial into 6.25mm for Sunday. Did 6.24, 6.25 and 6.24. 

    Plan is 8m easy then 3 x 5m at mp then whatever I fancy last 1.3m, or what I can manage more likely. Cd or just keep going. 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:
    3m today to dial into 6.25mm for Sunday. Did 6.24, 6.25 and 6.24. 

    Plan is 8m easy then 3 x 5m at mp then whatever I fancy last 1.3m, or what I can manage more likely. Cd or just keep going. 
    Hi DT - are you doing Manchester as a training run? Sorry I think I missed this - good luck if you are. Cheers, Skinny.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Skinny, yes peak training run. The race and hotel was booked and a dinner reservation made some time ago and I've wanted to get to Manchester for a whole but London always trumps it.

    I'd have had a 23m run on my schedule this weekend anyway with big blocks at Mara pace so this didn't seem that big a leap. 
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Who knows, athletics in general has some very strange rules. The guy who overtook you is a relatively new recruit, he's very handy. Which is good as the previous star man was poached by Notts AC; he was in their winning team on Saturday so a good move for him (and them as they finally broke the B&W dominance at the relays). 

    Not sure Worcestershire is particularly well known for its fell running but suppose there are The Malverns 

    Good luck for Sunday, sure you'll startle a few people when you start ramping it up to MP after the first 8 miles!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    He must have been about 90s faster than me. 

    The chap that run the last leg for Notts was 54 year old. There's nothing tremendous about a 54 year old running 5k but to still be good enough to do it in that team says a lot. 

    Ha, I'll suddenly be running 60-70s per mile faster than those around me so will seem a bit odd. 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    Looks a perfect day for it.

    Your easy pace will still be fast enough to be at the more thinly populated part of the race and certainly after your first 5 mile faster stint.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Talking of age, South Manchester parkrun first finisher today was an M60! Tommy Hughes, presumably over for the marathon.

    Hope to shout at you tomorrow, DT!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yep, perhaps a touch cold for those first 8m. 

    Alehouse  where will you be? I'll be in my crimson vest, black arm warmers and black half tights. 

    Wonder if he'll be gunning for sub 2.30. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    I'll be somewhere between 11 and 12...I think. May well be wearing my orange jacket with alehouse on it, as per my forum picture. 
    Sleep well!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited April 4
    Reasonable outing yesterday. The easy 8m were on the faster end of the acceptable range then the mp blocks all averaged 10s per mile faster than anticipated coming in 6.16, 6.16 and 6.15, then the cd mile popped up at 6.48mm and then I got carried by the crowd for the last 0.4m (per my GPS measurement) to average 6.20 coming in 2.55.23 with a 1.31/1.24 split. 

    Feel OK today, quads a bit stiff and the cold that was trying to get me since Tuesday has fully erupted over night and I'm absolutely streaming now. 
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    DT - Nice work - pretty impressive that you can casually knock out a 2.55 as a training run! Hopefully doesn't take too much out of you. How many weeks until the main event?

    Skinny - great to you see you back at it again. Hope this means that Mrs skinny is doing well.

    Tommy - sounds like you are ticking along nicely.

    Not much to report from me. I'm now 3 and a half weeks post op and no running yet. Had hoped I might have made a cautious return by now. Hopefully won't be too much longer but it's one of those things that's hard to judge so will just have to wait and see. 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    Great stuff DT - when I saw your plan I didn't fancy your chances of coming off 6:25 miling in the last mile or so and finishing in front of the crowds at 7:30s when you still felt fine.

    Won't be many with a 7 minute negative split either or sub 3 hours treating it as a training run.

    Hopefully you'll recover quickly and the cold clears up fast.

    Well done.
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    edited April 4
    Cut back week for me last week and really couldn't be arsed most of the week but managed to run every day. 3,3,3,2,3,2,7 for 23 total.

    Back to the 40 - 45 range for this week.

    EDIT: Yes thank you Mr V, much better. Will be frustrating for you when you had just got back to a good level of fitness but won't take long to build back up.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Mr v, as Skinny says, will be a touch frustrating as things were really coming together. When's the wedding? 

    Skinny, good to hear Mrs Skinny is on the mend. I think it's quite important on weeks like that, that you just get out and do a bit like you have done. 

    71m for me last week and a couple of spin classes. I'm mildly annoyed I didn't just creep under 2.55 as it was well within me in the last 1.4m but I had to keep reminding myself what my objective was. I was surprised by that 6.58 in mile 26 as I felt like I'd pulled myself right back. 

    My main concern was was something silly like a nasty blister, which has had me unable to walk properly in the past after a mara but other than sore quads I seem to have walked away unscathed. 

    For context my average hr yesterday was 159 and my strava relative effort was 344. In London my hr was 167 and effort score was 465 so there's a clear distinction there. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    This  is me going passed the final photographer at about 25.5m. I was feeling a bit tired but good enough to stick my tongue out and smile. 
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    Skinny - that's great news, really pleased to hear that. 

    DT - wedding is the 3rd June so not long now. It's coming round scarily quickly actually! 

    Nice data to back up your effort levels. Do you think that puts you in PB territory?

    Would you recommend Manchester? I'm tempted by a marathon next year and it's probably the one I would go for. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited April 4
    I would definitely. Decent sized field but lots of room, decent set up at the start and finish, barely queued for a toilet. 

    Weather is generally very good as it was yesterday, number posted out in advance, decent level of support for probably 85% of the route. Lots of long straight roads and more downhill than uphill. The only noticeable period of climbing to the extent I thought ouch was up from Altrincham but you get to go back downhill. 

    Plenty of reasonably priced hotels away from city that are a 10 min tram journey in, provided you book them early. 

    Definitely a good shout. 

    Yes, with another 3 weeks training  and being tapered it does I think. Though the MK case is a tricky course I think plus the field of runners won't be as dense and it could be warm being early May so this may all go tips up! 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:
    I would definitely.  

    Definitely a good shout. 
    Not just your running that has improved since the start of this thread.  B)
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    It's been a journey, Skinny and I've come a long way! 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Whilst it wasn’t a race I thought I’d do a quick report of the event.

    We arrived in Manchester Saturday pm and had a decent look around the imperial war museum, which was free and very interesting. Out for dinner at the Trafford centre then back to our Premier Inn in Sale.

    Didn’t sleep great, never do in a hotel unless blind drunk. Quick breakfast then out for my 7.40 taxi. On arriving in reception there’s another guy with a 7.30 taxi that hasn’t arrived and the receptionist is speaking with the company who say there are no taxis in the area and no eta. A lady overhears who is also running and says she is driving to the tram and will give us a lift but needs to grab a quick coffee. Two minutes later the taxi comes, we send it away. What then unfolded reminded me of the scene in Love Actually where Alan Rickman is buying a secret gift and Roan Atkinson is showing no urgency at all. 20 mins later, off we go and can’t get near the tram so car is dumped and we set off to find it. The poor chap I’m with is getting extremely anxious now as it’s his big race and he has his suitcase as well as race bag as he is booked into another hotel in Salford that night. We somehow miss the Brooklands tram stop and are just walking and walking down the A road that forms a big part of the course. After nearly 2 miles we end up at the next tram stop which is only 1 stop from Old Trafford and a tram comes immediately.

    Very quick turnaround and bag drop and thankfully nominal toilet queues and I just make it to the pens as they are leading the Red start B through. I pitch myself just ahead of the 3.15 pacer.

    I can’t really comment on where we were, the first 8m were spent running away from the Old Trafford area, into town (at which point the earlier starts are coming back the other way and I spot a few guys I know and wonder if they will be catchable later) then back out, passed the start area, around the stadium and back towards the start again, landing nicely on the 8m point where my alarm goes to set off for my first 5m block. Thankfully at this point the road becomes nice and wide and things thin out a bit.

    The easy miles have gone faster than the 7.20-7.30 range, but there had been a lot of flat and downhill and it felt very easy. They came in 7.17, 7.15, 7.20, 7.13, 7.14, 6.50 (no idea what happened there), 7.14 and 7.09 and I’m averaging 7.15.

    I set off for my first block and it coincided with a decent amount of gentle downhill, running out towards Sale, retracing my steps from a couple of hours earlier as I had noted the 10m marker then. I set off a little fast, it was almost like there was a pent up desire to just get moving so given at 7.15s I was cutting through the pack, suddenly at 6.15s it was much more evident. I brought things back under control and settled very nicely into a rhythm and a pace that didn’t seem that much harder than the 7.15s. At mile 11 I recall Alehouse saying he would be somewhere at that point so I passed the time looking around for him with no success. Before I knew it my watch was beeping to indicate the block was ending. The miles came in at 6.15, 6.19, 6.16, 6.16 and 6.18 for a 6.16 average. Already at 13m my average pace was 6.53mm, albeit I was a good 0.15 out from the mile markers. I clock the halfway marker at 1.30.52.

    I dialled it back for a mile, though it was very difficult to just cut the pace, with it coming out at 7.00mm. I took a gel in this mile and was aware the next block included the section around Altrincham which I’d seen was a bit hilly.

    Off I went again and as we get towards Altrincham there’s a fly over to get over. At this point I see a clubmate coming out the other way but have no idea how far ahead he is. As we wind into Altrincham there is a climb up into the town centre which does temporarily slow things down but you get some downhill to make up for it, in fact after that point there was in my recollection a lot of gentle downhill. That block came in again at 6.16 with reps of 6.15, 6.20, 6.15, 6.15 and 6.13.

    Again, I pull back for a mile, which was really frustrating as I was in a really good smooth rhythm and clipping along fairly effortlessly. Plus this one mile came at what was the top of a long straight downhill slope that lasted the whole mile. I had to remind myself of the deal of day and pull back, though only to 6.56mm, whilst I got a gel on board. At this point it got very dark and blustery and there were a few blasts of rain and a reasonable headwind. I hoped that by the time this mile was over I had changed direction and it hadn’t rained as I was getting quite cold suddenly.

    Eventually the mile ends and I can go again. As a side note, mentally I found this way of counting down much easier to deal with. I was working to one block at a time as opposed getting to 26 so only ever looking at 5m or less.

    Anyway, I set off again for miles 21-25 and whilst I had now caught faster runners, many were those that were falling off sub 3 trains so still no one running near 6.15. As I go off again I immediately pass two guys who appear somewhat bemused and I hear one say ‘I think I need some of what he is taking’. Gives me a little chuckle as I kind of venture into the unknown. I’ve only done one 20 miler and a selection of 18 milers since last September so wondered if that would get me.

    At about 23m I pass a local guy I know who I’d seen coming the other way out of the city then moments later I see a club vest and catch up with it and say a quick hello. At around maybe 24m I spot a bright orange vest and hope it isn’t g’dawg as it means he has fallen off the pace. I’m soon up with him and say a quick hello whilst he then heckles me as move on.

    The miles are just flying by this block, to my surprise and the course just seems to be a permanent gentle downhill. I am now starting to feel tired in the legs as I approach the end of this block, but it’s my fastest at 6.15mm average with splits of 6.13, 6.10, 6.20, 6.15 and 6.16.

    I decide that at 6.37mm average on my watch, I’ve done more than enough and really ought not to bash on for the last 1.4m so I pull back to what feels like trudging pace, yet somehow came in at 6.48mm, then as I turn to the final straight there’s a lot of crowd and I started just naturally upping things to run the last 0.4 at 6.21mm.

    Spent a good bit of time afterwards stretching and getting supplements and electrolytes in me then met up with Lewis etc for a coke before heading home.

    As an event I thought it was well organised, no toilet queue problems and plenty of support throughout most of the course. Whilst there’s a minor uphill section it’s more than offset by quite a lot of downhill and even more flatness. Definitely a marathon I’d do again.

     

  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    Must have been a great feeling blasting through large chunks of a marathon without really exerting yourself and still smashing the 3 hour goal that for so long eluded you.

    I can imagine that 20 mins with the stranger would have been pretty stressy!

    I think the route is slightly different (longer for a start off HAHA) than when I did it but I remember it as being astonishingly flat with a bridge being about the only elevation in the whole race.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Skinny, yes, it all seems a little incomprehensible given how much it once consumed me. 

    I was eith the bloke for some 90 mins. I felt quite sorry for him as he was proper stressed and I knew how I'd feel if it was my raceday. I kept trying to rationalise for him that there were 3 other starts after his going on for a good hour and it didn't matter which he was in. I was quite happy if necessary to drop back to the next start. He was becoming irritated by our good samaritan though. 

    5m recovery yesterday and 8m very low end easy today. 10m tomorrow. Out for a few beers and curry tonight as I kind of still have that post mara blow out desire, then head back on it for a bit 2.5 weeks. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5
    DT19 said:

    Whilst it wasn’t a race I thought I’d do a quick report of the event.

    We arrived in Manchester Saturday pm and had a decent look around the imperial war museum, which was free and very interesting. Out for dinner at the Trafford centre then back to our Premier Inn in Sale.

    Didn’t sleep great, never do in a hotel unless blind drunk. Quick breakfast then out for my 7.40 taxi. On arriving in reception there’s another guy with a 7.30 taxi that hasn’t arrived and the receptionist is speaking with the company who say there are no taxis in the area and no eta. A lady overhears who is also running and says she is driving to the tram and will give us a lift but needs to grab a quick coffee. Two minutes later the taxi comes, we send it away. What then unfolded reminded me of the scene in Love Actually where Alan Rickman is buying a secret gift and Roan Atkinson is showing no urgency at all. 20 mins later, off we go and can’t get near the tram so car is dumped and we set off to find it. The poor chap I’m with is getting extremely anxious now as it’s his big race and he has his suitcase as well as race bag as he is booked into another hotel in Salford that night. We somehow miss the Brooklands tram stop and are just walking and walking down the A road that forms a big part of the course. After nearly 2 miles we end up at the next tram stop which is only 1 stop from Old Trafford and a tram comes immediately.


     

    Congrats on a decent marathon, even at a stripped back effort.
    I can't say I've ever finished say a 14-15miler and felt totally tightness free, so another 10+ miles, then some effort just screams world of pain, so dibs.

    But as a keen United fan, who is often on that metro line path, there's a few questions :D 

    The tram stops are literally all in a straight line not too far off the main road, with plenty of signs...I can just about buy you missing Brooklands, as the Sale premier inn is a couple of miles "In land", as opposed to say the Manchester Sale Travelodge, which is right on the main road (right near the Dane Road station - 10min walk for future reference!),

    But if you missed Brooklands, you also managed to miss Sale and Dane Road into the bargain to turn up at Stretford?

    I'm gonna put it down to your stressy mate, who must have been tearing up at the prospect of having to dump his gear somewhere new, AND get back to the start?
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited April 5
    It was reasonably pain free, SG. My legs were tired by the end but I expected that. 

    Now as for the transportation issues, we walked passed that travelodge and both noted it would have been a good place to stay we also discussed the fact that as the car park led out straight onto the closed A road, unless there was a back exit, you're pretty much stuck there all day. 

    We saw no signs for trams whatsoever and that was one of our rants, the ridiculousness of them not being clearly indicated from the main road. Even when we had clear instructions to Stretford the station was not obvious until we were practically on the platform. The positive was that my journey only cost me 10p. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Another solid week, despite being full of cold. 64m with 23m today. 8m at 160bpm Friday came out 6.16mm for 159. 

    2 more solid weeks then a short taper. 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    Well done DT.

    I had my own version of a solid week - 4,10,3,3, 9 (fell run 2000ft climbing), 2, 14 for 45 miles.

    The fell run continues to improve in chunks - the 2 miles up the long ascent were a whole 4 minutes faster this week than they were when I first ran it 4 weeks ago and still contained loads of walking so I think I am getting stronger running and walking legs which is what I will need.***

    That's the end of my 12 weeks 'get back into running' phase that started with a single 5 mile run in week ended 23rd January but the last 6 weeks I've averaged over 36 miles and I've run the last 41 days (65 my longest streak ever).

    Next 6 weeks I was planning to aim for a HM on 22nd May but now planning a long trail/fell run (23 miles, 4300 feet of ascent on 30th April) and a shorter fell race (15 miles, 5500 feet of ascent on 28th May) which are more in keeping with my end goal for this year.

    I won't be ready for the 30th April race but I need to get better at repeated walking uphill over long periods and managing/eliminating cramp so fits the plan.  

    ***Just for Tommy it still took me 16:49 to travel the mile with the most ascent in it (873 feet) so I'm a long way from proficient at fell running yet! 
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    DT - looks like a very solid week, especially you ran a pretty big session at Manchester last Sunday. 

    Skinny - great to see that you completed your return to running phase. Looks like some very decent training and with those big chunks of time being chopped off the ascents, looks like your leg strength and technique are improving too. 

    That time for a mile with that amount of climbing in sounds about right, you have actual proper big fells in Cumbria which we don't have on Dartmoor! 

    Talking of Dartmoor fell racing, it was the Devon inter county trials last Sunday; don't think I've ever been in such a small but competitive race; about 20 of us but a very high standard. As usual, the route began with a big old climb to the top of a tor, a rough descent to the bottom of a valley before a long drag up to another highpoint before a 4k descent including a really steep dro poff the side of a hill which smashed by quads to bits. 

    Think I was 13th, a good run out but definitely out of practice for this type of running. 

    Still keeping up with the gym work and managing to get a few more miles in recently so hopefully some improvements to come over summer.    
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