Overdone it?

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  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    Early doors is the way to beat the heat - out at 6:30 for 7 this morning.

    At Yorks v Durham 20/20 tomorrow night then got the Premiership Final Rugby on a work do on Saturday which sounds great except that rugby is not a sport I really follow. Anyway it's going to make running tricky to fit in.
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    DT - good effort with the relays. Seems like a decent place to be in 15 weeks out from Berlin

    Muddy - great to see you continue to improve. Hopefully you can keep up the consistency and build the miles back up over the coming weeks.

    Skinny - that's an impressive 5K time given the recent focus of your training. Looking good for a PB attempt later in the series. Sensible call on your early morning start. I went out at lunchtime and it was hard going.

    Thanks everyone for your messages re the wedding. All went perfectly and we had a fantastic day. Had a really nice honeymoon too but sadly back to reality now.

    I've unsurprisingly not managed a huge amount of running over thr last 2/ 3 weeks but have kept ticking over. Will look to pick the training back up properly as of next week.


  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    DT - Yes the watch collects all the details about loading/sleep etc and recommends a run based on what it knows. I just press Run then it suggests something, and I can accept it or do my own thing. So far it’s doing 3 aerobic runs and a tempo run each week and progressing the time on feet it assigns me. It’s not suggesting anything outlandish. The tempo workout this week was 4miles at marathon effort which came out at around 6.40 min/mile. I was happy with that in the midday heat.

    it’s by birthday tomorrow so I bought myself some discounted Alphafly. I did an easy run today to break them in (at peak heat) and found them to be a bit of a game changer for efficiency in the same way the original Vaporfly were.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited June 18
    Skinny, enjoy the match. I'd just enjoy the hospitality and see the match as a side event. 

    Glad the wedding went well, Mr v.

    Muddy, happy birthday. Is that your first alphafly? They are a different feel to the vaporflys for sure, a much more obvious drive forward as you go through the forefoot. They are fantastic when cruising along straight lines at that sort of mp pace. 

    I picked up a pair for Xmas for £121, cheaper than my normal mileage shoe. I almost got caught up in buying the alphafly 2 this week. Had a pair in the basket then stepped back.

     My alphafly only have 27m on them (albeit as per above they were purchased at non supershoe price so I can be a bit more flippant about them) and I've just spent £280 on Berlin flights, plus I wouldn't use them until late September. So thought I'd hold off and see what the reviews are like. So far reasonably positive in that they have fixed a few complaints on v1 and give you a bit more pop. 

    8m easy yesterday morning then spin today. 
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    DT19 - Yes my first alphafly. I’ve ordered the 2’s to try out on the basis that if they’re significantly better I’ll return the 1’s. Otherwise I’ll return the 2’s. 

    I like the way they (the 1’s) keep you on the forefoot, where all the energy return is. That seems to suit me as a forefoot prancer. I did think they were a bit tight in the forefoot but that could have been a first use thing. Will report back on the 2’s when I get them - should arrive today.

  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    I'm not even sure if I've got Alpha or Vapor - I really must pay more attention when I pay £260 for a pair of trainers! :-)

    4, 11 (incl 2450 ascent), 4, 7, 10, 0, 0 for 36 miles last week. Saturday and Sunday blanks reduced the mileage.

    Rugby was close but not as exciting if you don't really follow the sport or the teams involved. Getting away from Twickenham and back to Carlisle was a travel nightmare though - left the stadium at 6:15pm, arrived home at 1am.  

    It's my 30th Wedding anniversary this coming Sunday so away Friday to Monday - more blank training days - need to cram in some big miles Monday to Thursday but started out with a modest 6 this morning.
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited June 22
    I think from the price we’re talking alphafly there Skinny … as for the anniversary maybe just call it a cut back week, you’ve had a couple of monster weeks recently.

    I managed 20 and 26 miles over the past fortnight. It still feels like enough, as I’ve done a fair bit of walking on top of that and started throwing sessions in. My watch predictor is putting me at 19.09 for the 5k at the moment. So far I’ve been about 5-10 seconds ahead of the predictions it makes (which seem much better than previous Garmin watch predictions) so I’m quite tempted to go for the sub-19 soon. Fearsome heat at the moment however, and hoping to bump mileage upwards a bit this week, so will see whether I can do it on slightly jaded legs.


    DT19 - I didn’t like the feel of the AF2s … they feel quite clunky and not smooth - they have the huge heel base similar to the Invincible shoes and I just don’t get on with it. I think the forefoot is wider too so you get more energy return due to the little extra on the pod size. I couldn’t see much difference on the efficiency side of things (heart rate for pace) but that could be down to temperature differences. Edit: also feel heavier.


  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    Double post

    6 x 3 mins 30s touching on threshold effort at lunchtime … 2 mins of recovery … came in around 6.30 min/mile pace output over 4 miles Utterly goosed afterwards as it was very warm and cool-down was a jog walk affair.

    I can feel I’m getting fitter as recovery times from 
    these runs are getting shorter and I’m starting to put together back to back days of running.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Skinny, I recall it was the alphafly you ordered. 

    I enjoyed the rugby final on the tv, but as you say, being a neutral the tension and excitement isn't quite the same. 

    Muddy, hopefully you are over that period of coming back where things are hard and about to enter the phase where you can train as you want and gains come fast.

    I managed to pick up some v2 alphafly this week as well. I hot a size 8 as normal but these are much tighter a fit than v1 and feel much more rigid just walking around the kitchen in them. Need to wear them for a tempo to really form a view. 

    Spin Monday, then a session of 6 x 800m followed by 8 x 400m Tuesday. Couldn't get out until 3.30pm due to work and it was very hot by then. 9m easy last night also very warm and spin tonight. 3 x 2m tomorrow morning. 

    Will be booking my trip to Boston for next April, over the weekend, just need to remember to pay for my place when it opens in September! 
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
     On the AF2 it, I found it to be looser although it was much harder to get my foot in. Once on I didn't feel my foot was held particularly well around the midfoot but was gripped snugly aound the ankle.

    8m this morning with parkrun at threshold. I didn’t quite have the freshness for a full tilt parkrun and the watch was advising 3 x 6 mins at threshold so I went with that sort of energy but without the recoveries. That made for 19.37 in the end for the parkrun which was faster than the last time out (and a bit less effort) in quite windy but mercifully cool conditions.
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    I took your advice muddy but exaggerated it and so only ran 6 miles in total last week! Had a couple of good days at start of this week though but off to Prague with work now for a couple of days which will mostly be spent travelling.

    Sounds like progress and that will help with motivation too - well done.

    Lots of faster stuff there DT - got a 5k plan?

    I've just realised that I'm away the date of the next 5k in the series which is frustrating because I was excited about gunning for a PB for the first time in 6 years.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited July 3
    Skinny, shame re the 5k date. It's definitely worth pursuing though and finding an alternative. 

    Ive a planned parkrun next weekend and a 10k later in July so trying to sharpen up. Not feeling like I'm in great shape, though I maybe confusing that for warmer temps as today was much easier in cooler weather. Thinking low 18m for parkrun would be OK, though oddly the thought of running a mara at pb pace (6.20 ish) sounds quite plausible. 

    Muddy, you seem to be going from strength to strength now looking on strava. 

    Decent enough week with 49m and 3 big spin sessions. 8 x 1k on Tuesday then a 6m tempo Friday and 15m today with 7m easy then 2 x 3m at mara pace off 1m then 1m cd. 

    12 weeks until Berlin. 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    Hi DT - the third race in series is 3rd August now on calendar at home - only slight issue is in at a Van Morrison concert with Mrs Skinny night before in Glasgow and will involve a few drinks.

    Feels like you should go out pretty hard and see if your stamina can hold on in your 5k?

    Funny week for me as was away Wed Thurs in Europe so two full days travelling but week as follows.

    Fartlek 10 in 74 mins, 10 off road with 2000 feet ascent, 0, 3, 0, 0, 19 at 8:25 and 1000 feet ascent for a 42 mile week with 3000 feet ascent. Fitness building gradually.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Not ideal but as it's midweek it must be an evening race and assuming it's not an absolute session on the booze you should be OK. 

    I'm sure I'll go off way faster than the 5.50 pace in my head and either myself or fall to pieces. It's ridiculous though as most guys running sub 2.50 maras are pushing sub 17 at 5k. There are guys I speak with who can't get under 2.50 but routinely knock out solid sub 18, 5ks. 

    A decent week in a strange way then, Skinny. Slightly unbalanced but job done. 

    Boston is now booked up. I should get a decent training block to that pretty unhindered. Since London last October I've had an 11 day holiday, 4 day, 1 week, 11 day over October, December, Feb and May. I've 8 days away mid August so with January inured, then a late spring mara, I feel like I'm back pedalling but then I've run two pretty solid marathons this year as a platform. However I won't be going on holiday after Berlin in September until next May so a clear run. 
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    DT - Yes, heart rate for slower paces is coming down and looking good. I did 25 miles last week and a long run of nearly 8.5 miles @ 7.20 min/mile was really quite straightforward and fun without a parkrun in my legs. However my ventilatory and lactate thresholds are all pretty low so any serious effort above 150 bpm has me tied up in knots pretty quickly. Sure that'll change once I've got a regular tempo run in place (so far that's been my occasional parkrun efforts).

    Which parkrun are you doing ? I was planning to do my nearest on Saturday. Watch thinks I'm capable of 18.30-ish now :pensive:

    Fine mileage and hills Skinny, fingers crossed for some cool weather in August for the 5k attempt.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muddy, heading to Oaklands to meet Andy.

    Now the weather has cooled I don't seem as unfit as I thought, school boy error. 

    Either way, I'll still be pleasantly surprised if I can sneak under 18. 

    14 x 400m today off 1 min. Started off controlled running them around 5.40 pace then over the last 6 reps started pushing a bit harder finishing with a 1.17.

    Easy few days now building to it. 
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    Ah Oaklands is a bit of stretch for me as I'm without a car.

    I'd have thought under 18 is a doddle if you can run 5.40 min/mile and faster consistently over 400m reps. Is that a workout you've done before and then not managed to go under 18 ?  It's looking like it'll be fairly warm Saturday morning however.

    Bit of a lazy week for me so far with a couple of easy 5 mile runs, but I intend to run Fri, Sat, Sun to log some miles.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muddy, I've only ever gone sub 18 once which was Edgbaston last November. That 17.50 ruined me but then I'd only returned from a 10 day holiday a few days prior so perhaps wasn't a perfect time to go for it. That's the only proper go at a parkrun since I've been in sub 18 mix. 

    Yes not optimal for 5k effort Saturday, looks set though to be awful running weather next week. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Surprised myself yesterday with 17.53, so just 3s off pb. Pleased with that 11 weeks out from Berlin.

    I wasn't helped by fact it was a completely solo tt. I found myself in the lead after 400m and by 1m point thar was a good 30-40s. By 2nd mile point no one was in sight as I glanced back. This made it tricky to throw myself into the suffering. The effort didn't feel as hard as my pb last November, but then my desire to run sub 18 was huge, yesterday I couldn't quite squeeze last last % or two. 

    Ended up with a 72s winning margin which was nice of course. 

    Up and out for 15m this morning before it was too hot. 
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    Well done DT! 

    My weekend plans collapsed after my son tested positive on Friday for coronavirus after feeling lightheaded at school. He’s now coughing and spluttering round the house, jubilant about a few days off school.
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    DT - nice work on the parkrun. A PB has to be there for the taking with a bit of company to drag you along. Will you get another opportunity to do a 5k prior to Berlin?

    Muddy - that's frustrating for you but good to hear that your son doesnt seem too affected by it. Hopefully you've built up enough protection to avoid it yourself. 

    36 miles for me last week which is my highest total since the op. Also managed 33, 33 and 31 the previous three weeks so starting to get some consistency back. Can feel the fitness starting to improve now so definitely heading in the right direction. 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    Excellent DT - your first parkrun first finisher?

    Did you not know how close you were to your PB? For 3 seconds I would have been squeezing myself into a world of suffering!

    Anyway you have a much faster time in you and you should treat that as a sighter. Do another in 3 or 4 weeks and you'll smash it.

    Muddy that's a shame but for every down there is an up it's just a shame for you that Mr V is experiencing the up!  :smiley:

    4 good weeks on the trot Mr V - it's great when your legs arrive at that point where easy runs feel easy!

    My last week to follow as I'm sneaking in a few photos. 

  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    edited July 11
    Last week 0, 0 (daughter's graduation), 17 with 3250 feet ascent in 3:21 - this was supposed to be a recce of the first 8.5 miles of my October race but visibility was terrible and the wind was gale force on the first top so I aborted and ran along the valley and back instead, 0, 8, 5, 18 with 5240 ft ascent in 4:26 (14:50 pace) which was the Recce from Caldbeck to top of Blencathra (and then in reverse back to the car). 48 miles in total - most of uphills walked.

    On Sunday when I got to Caldbeck at 6am I was greeted by a view up the fells that showed dense cloud/fog at around 1,000 feet but this was the fourth time I'd tried to do this recce and so I set off anyhow hoping it would clear as sun came out. Over High Pike and down into the valley the sun appeared and although there was still cloud around decided I could head up Blencathra. When I got to the top there was an amazing cloud inversion so spent 10 mins up there (included in the 4:26) taking photos and video and chatting to other lucky folk.

    One guy had experienced a Brocken spectre on the way up (google it) which is incredibly rare - I think I would have thought I was having a migraine or dying if it had happened to me.

    Took me about 2:20 to go the 8.5 miles to top and that included a little bit of faffing around at river crossing/going wrong way. That's about right for my 13 hour plan. Only issue is when I got back to car after the 18 there is no way I had another 32 miles and 7000 more feet in my legs nor can I imagine ever being in that position (but hopefully I will be in 13 weeks).

    Goal is to get up to 60 mile weeks with 12000 feet ascent which should at least give me a fighting chance. Even my last week was only 48 miles and 9000 feet ascent and that was in a week not in a day.

    Here's some photos.









  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muddy, hope your son is OK. It doesn't sound like he's too rough if he's chirping around the place in joy at missing school. 

    Mr v, good stuff, all about consistency first and foremost as opposed to any particular sessions etc so just keep building up the weeks. 

    Skinny, the scenery looks fantastic. I question though what will the weather be like in October if it isn't optimal in July? I think a brocken spectre would have freaked me out a bit. 

    Yes, was my first time as first finisher. I kind of lost focus on my time during the second half as my priority was on not blowing up and losing the lead and I had enough of a lead that the smartest thing to do was not batter myself with half a race to go. I was aware that I was around sub 18 pace and I guess with a pb of 17.50, by default I was also close to that. Finishing first and running sub 18 were reward enough for my efforts so not too upset, though I did kick myself a few times Saturday pm for not beating it. 

    I've got a 10k a week tomorrow then a half mara 4 weeks Sunday, then a week in Portugal  then I return and it's only 4-5 weeks to Berlin so the reality is I'm unlikely to have another crack at parkrun at that effort until late October or November. 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:
    I question though what will the weather be like in October
    As does every person with their name down for Lakes in a Day!

    DT19 said:
    Yes, was my first time as first finisher. 

    I've got a 10k a week tomorrow then a half mara 4 weeks Sunday, then a week in Portugal  then I return and it's only 4-5 weeks to Berlin so the reality is I'm unlikely to have another crack at parkrun at that effort until late October or November. 
    Excellent.

    Somewhere between the 10k and the half mara I'm sure you could find a window ;-)
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Skinny, I've learnt that the best way for me to run a good marathon is to put in big blocks of training and race sparingly so as not to find myself up and down with taper and recovery. 

    There's only 2 Saturdays between those races (ignoring the Saturdays straight after the 10k and the day before the half) so not a huge opportunity.

    12 x 1k and half effort over lunchtime off 45s jog. Had to modify a bit second half as was overheating so ran them in pairs and had a couple of mins rest after reps 6, 8 and 10, just to get it done safely. Reps averaged circa 6mm so  reasonable enough in the temps with what is a pretty high volume session. Covered 12m with wu and cd. 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    Yeah I know that's right but when I look at some of your training sessions it looks like you could quite easily 'convert' one into a parkrun dash. In fact some of your training sessions look harder than a 5k race.

    e.g. above 12k at 6mm off 45 secs - is that really any easier than 5k at 5:42mm off zero secs? 
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    I think I'd have preferred not to be out for longer than necessary in the heat jogging those recoveries DT, but fair play for doing it. Takes so long to cool down after those sessions.

    Nice pictures of the top of the world Skinny.

    That's a decent mileage MrV - should see some bigger improvements now.

    No covid for me so far, thankfully, testing daily for the last week or so. I'm keeping fingers crossed and thinking I can do a fairly decent schedule this week that gets me closer to 30 miles than 20.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Skinny, I think the problem then is the balance of training. I need to be running big runs on a Sunday with 10 weeks to Berlin. Lewis generally won't schedule more than 13m the day after a race/parkrun or big session and with a weeks holiday and a half mara, us a taper, I dont have the luxury of time to miss a Sunday now. 

    The additional recovery I took was stood in the shade as opposed slow jog so it definitely helped, Muddy.

    Hopefully your covid situation is clear now, Muddy?  Parkrun looked decent yesterday. 

    12m mlr and spin wednesday, recovery run Thursday then a decent session Friday morning of 2k at hmp then 2 x 1k at 10kp then 2 sets of 5 x 400 at 5kp. Paces were about right though the 400m reps coming in at 1.20-1.22 were more 3k pace. 

    Yesterday evening I Marshalled at a local 10k. Its quite a hilly affair and with a 6pm start it was pretty tough going in the warm sunshine. Our point was at 1.5k then 8k so got to see the fresh early stages and the business end. 

    Up and out at 8am for 12m. Cutting back in anticipation of my 10k Wednesday. 

    55m for the week. 

    I looked on po10 and my parkrun last weekend scored me 80.13% wava which is my first 80% score so a pb in that context!
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    Yes DT, both with the negative tests since Tuesday. I managed 30 and a bit miles this week including a parkrun of 18.52-ish (12th). Enjoyed it and there wasn’t too much of a drop off in pace from mile to mile. 

    Recovery running this morning - 5 miles - the heat didn’t feel too bad until I finished and there was no longer any airflow.
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