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Stupid Question about PBs
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Thanks all, the advice and recommendations are appreciated. Not sure I could take 3 laps of Luton, mind! I think I was trying to be wary of not over-doing it when it came to the long runs but it seems I didn't get the balance right.
Good luck everyone in your upcoming races.
I have what may seem a silly question.
We all know that when you are going to be racing a hilly course, you should train for a hilly course. Is the same true for flat courses? I ask because I have mainly done flat marathons, yet a lot of my long runs are done on undulating/hilly courses. I usually start to suffer much ealier on the race then I would expect given the training, even when I was in really good shape a few years ago.
Thoughts? Thanks.
I have found the same BDB and would think that when running a flat marathon you need to run as flat as you can as it fatigues the muscles in ways that running on a nice undulating route doesn't.
When you run hills a lot of different muscles come into play and if you are anything like me you'll dump a short burst of energy to get you up the molehills where you never do that when running flat.
Perhaps it's not train flat but try and vary your pace on the flat marathons so that you bring into play the muscles you use in training but otherwise won't use in the marathon.
That or just find a hilly marathon, far more fun imho.
That sounds odd Badly, I would have thought if you were doing loads of hilly runs in training, you'd absolutely smash a flat race.
I always notice the difference when i run back on flat road after a xc race.
Can only imagine that the courses you're doing mean you tail off in speed a fair few times as you come to harder terrain, meaning that when you're trying to keep a faster consistent pace you're not used to it.
Camillia - I think you're right about using different muscles in different ways. A hilly marathon is an option (gulp) but not when chasing the illusive PB. Though that will be a few marathons and a couple of years away yet I fear.
Stevie - that's a wisdom I have always thought too, and it works on shorter stuff but clearly not for me on the long stuff. I run marathons pretty conservatively; 75-80% WHR and have done the long runs in training, yet still start to feel it more than I should by 20 miles. It's not bad just a bit of surprise compared to training. Obviously need to find some new routes if I do another flat one.
Is it mileage related? I might be wrong with you, but i presume while you train well, you don't hit the monster mileages others do on here...
what kind of mileage for a marathon would you typically do? Any chance that you may do the long runs, but not enough other mileage on top?
Do you do long MP sessions?
I don't think it's milage. I follow the program but usually drop a 4 mile easy run as I need an extra rest day. Peak milage would be between 50-60 mpw, with a peak month around 175. So not huge compared to others but not scrimping either. The RW schedules don't have a lot of MP runs in them which may also be a bit of an issue.
The fatigue isn't a huge problem and could also in part be down to conditioning - towards the end of mara training I get lazy over doing weights. Just have to be more disciplined next time.
All of that is a bit academic anyway as I'm hardly running at all at the moment.
Back to the original post - I keep two sets of records. One is my "official" PBs at race distances - for that I only count those that are in races, and properly certified accurate courses. This is getting harder, as more and more are off-road, and "approximate" distances.
The other is just a record of my best times on different training routes.
Like many others I find I can't duplicate race pace in training.
I do have a bit of a dilemma coming up. I set myself a challenge of going sub 40 for 10K in my 40th year. Now approaching correct shape for a stab at it, but really stuggling to find an appropriate race near me before October. Seen one in Nov, but by then I'll be 41. I might have to resort to having a stab at it on the track. It will be accurately measured, but if I managed it (probably unlikely as not a race), I'm not really sure whether I should count it anyway.
Exiled, doing it on the track would be better than trying it on the road, but of course wouldn't count as a pb! You need some sense of the official, it has to be ratified with results at least.
Maybe I could get a mate to time me and upload the results on the internet