Paris Marathon 2013



  • Fantasy films and novels pass me by. Was clueless about Sauron and now I am happy to continue to be clueless in that regard. The Shard looks like a nice bit of glass though...

    Well, our collective Olympi-gasm is over. Will miss it. Although frankly, it'll now give me a chance to get back to my TDF recordings. I'm only upto Quinze Juillet. Will Wiggo do it?!?

    Didn't run over the weekend, ahead of visit to surgeon this afternoon. Tried to ride on Saturday evening but found my foot flapping about after 10K, to find that 3 out of the 4 bolts holding my cleats onto my cycling shoe had fallen off. So nursed it home for a repair - new bolts bought, cut to size and superglued in place. Fingers crossed.

    Took out for 51km early yesterday - not quite Kaz O'Clock (KOC?) but before the sun made the air warm. Did all the hills nearby and came back shatered. Can feel that this is going to change the shape of my legs, making the hamstrings and quads work much differently to running but same good pressure on the heart. Does anyone here use Strava yet? It's an online place to log running or cycling distances but has the (unique?) feature of setting up segments - usually hills - that allow you to compare times with all the other people who ran or cycled that segment. Quite good fun.

    That pic looks idyllic DV - it's how i remember going up on the hills in Wiltshire when i lived over there.

  • yer majyer maj ✭✭✭

    TD - I use Strava.  I'm getting to quite like it although my garmin is even more reluctant to divulge its data secrets to the programme than it is to the others, it seems.

    Intervals for me this morning...very hard work but I hit pace on all 9 of 'em

    6 days before the Vuelta starts.  Am I going to have to get some work done this week?  Oh the horror...

  • RR: those photos are amazing - they really do look like they are flying. Thanks for sharing them!

    The thought did occur to me as I watching the 50km walking that they were walking further than the marathon and they still took less time than my Paris run!

    One of the Australian commentators (Rob de Castella) for the mara was saying that these guys would run over 200 km a week in training. Crazy talk.

    DLR: I'm so sorry you've had to pull out of the 'Dam. It's an absolute stinker especially after you've worked so hard. Hang in there - you'll always have Parisimage
  • DannirrDannirr ✭✭✭
    TD - although a little late now, it would be better to use loctite than superglue for bolts. It will hold better, but importantly will also release if you need to take the cleat off. It won't wiggle loose - need a fair amount of brute strength to loosen. Just be careful to buy the right loctite - the blue one. Use the red one if you only want to get it loose buy applying heat (by flame, which of course would melt the shoe!) there is also a loctite version that you apply after the bolt is already in place - very useful for securing things without having to take them apart first. This ends my loctite lecture.
  • Eggyh73Eggyh73 ✭✭✭

    TD - Superglue! Do your shoes not have the cutout for your cleats to be screwed into?

    I've decided my body hates me. Tries to kill me during my LSR. Then spends all weekend complaining and feel like hell. Then come Monday morning hey presto all is fine again. Cheers body, next time you take a stroop any chance it can be on a school day, not the weekend.


  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    I know that we've had several discussions about sports drinks and Gels but I read something the other day that suggested Jelly Babies were a good alternative.

    I hate to think that I'm being conned into expensive gels but I do find that taking 'something' does give me a lift on longer runs.

    So, does anyone use Jelly Babies? Are there any downsides to sticking to these simple sweeties(are they missing something? are they just empty sugar?)

    Should I give them a go?

  • Orbutt - major downside of jelly babies is that they get very sticky on long runs. Upside is that you can bite their heads off if you're going through a bad patch.

    I'm a bit worried about ATM - she was supposed to be doing an open water swim. ATM - have you drowned?
  • ATMATM ✭✭✭

    The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated...image  * serendipitous log-in, eh?*

    Nope, RR.I survived the loch swim but the venue for the Great Scottish Swim is still closed to swimmers. So, we're practising locally but with no idea whether the Mile -thingy we've entered ...due 25/8..will be going ahead or not. The 2.5 and 10k swim in the Seine, revived after 60 years, has just be cancelled. The good news is that the Tri, early morning and only 1.5k, seems to go ahead, whatever...So, get biking.

    I was feeling a bit  overwhelmed by some of the distances being posted, here, but then I remembered that you're all training for marathons and the like. about 23k for me, yeasterday..the longest run since Paris. yer_ maj, kaz, Audrey and Eggy ( and hs? ), any plans for a quick meal or something after the Glasgow Half ? What about a quick meet-up in the massage tent and then heading off? Is washing compulsory?

    Orbutt, after a horrible reaction to gels, in April, I started using shock-blocks. True, you don't get the satisfaction of biting the babies' heads off but they stay relatively stickiness-free and haven't had any effect on my far.

  • Orbutt..   I almost never use gels or sports drinks..   I mix my own drinks and food is very individual..  you need to experiment.  Not all gels are the same.  Some people might prefer one brand whereas someone else will hate the same product.   Jelly beans, not jelly babies, are really good.  Same with chocolate covered coffee beans.   I once did a 32 mile run fuelled solely on jelly beans and nothing else.   I would suggest you take some time to experiment with different things and see what works and what doesn't.    For example,   I run well on pizza..  but not spicy pizza...   only found that out by experimenting    image


  • Eggyh73Eggyh73 ✭✭✭

    ATM - I'd be up for meeting up after the Glasgow half. Although I will need to shower first. I felt sorry for the poor folk on the train home last year after it, as I was almost boaking at my own smell.

    Orbutt - I use gels, but I'm a light user. Only take one gel for a 20 mile run and two for a marathon. I only take sports drinks on distances of a half or above. Anything less than that and I stick with water. I did use shot blocks a few times for Paris and they were far nicer than gels. A bit more tricky to eat while on the run though.

    Despite the fact I've now completed 8 marathons I'm still unsure of the benefit of gels. Sometimes I feel like I get a boost from them, other times nothing. I tried taking more when I first started running, but I've found taking any more than two gels gives me severe stomach cramp.

  • yer majyer maj ✭✭✭

    Orbutt - I used the High 5 isotonic gels for Paris and they didn't upset my stomach at all.  I'm training myself to use as little as possible at the moment, now I know that the gels are ok.  I did my 24k yesterday on just water and I was absolutely fine.  I have used jelly babies in the past and whilst they did the job, the did get sticky and after a few I felt a bit sick beacsue they are much sweeter than the gels

    Going to try shotbloks this time round I think

    ATM - we are staying with friends so I'm not sure what the plan is, but if nothing else, let's arrange to meet up for a wee debrief afterwards!

  • Dannirr - I had precisely 1 minute to run into the DIY shop on Saturday evening at 17:59 to buy bolts and glue. In Belgium, those shops do not re-open until 0930 Monday morning. I knew they were 4mm counter-sunk bolts, 11mm in length. I ran to the right section after arguing my way past the guy trying to close the shop door, picked up some 4x25mm bolts, legged it to the glue section. Small selection, no familiar brands names, all instructions only in French or Dutch (which gets tricky when it becomes technical).  If the bolts come undone again, I have another go at it. If they don't come undone, job done!

    Eggy - they are Speedplay cleats, so a bit different to normal ones. You have to screw an adapter plate into the shoe in the usual 3 holes, then you screw the cleat system onto the adapter (4 bolts). The benefit is it gives you much more rotational adjustment (free float) on the foot which is supposed to be good for dodgy knees.

    Yer_Maj - looking out for you on Strava. image

    Visit to surgeon - the results are in - it was apparently a very big Baker's Cist. Old MRI scan below shows it as the big white area to the back of the knee (right side of the pic). So he drained off 20ml of sinuvial fluid and gave me a Cortisone injection. Bottom line, it should feel a bit better right away and may come back in time, or just go away. But it isn't much to worry about and even if it bursts, it will only hurt like a severe muscle strain for a week or two. So no need to cry like a big baby/ Olympic gold medal winner image

    Yay! Good news! image image



  • ATM - I ain't doing Glasgow?? Although the BF and his 'merry' friends may wish to meet up ( they won't be doing the half either unless they get caught up in it when drunk?!?!?!)image

    Gels - I have tried them, but like eggy I did not really see the benefit??? I don't  normally bother and when doing LSR's I prefer to have an ice lolly stop image I have tried shot bloks and every time with in 15 mins (maybe just  coincidence), I need to make an urgent journey.image I am at the moment trying to do all my runs on an empty stomach which is going remarkably well. So far upto 18 miles without water or anything. But that is running slow??

    DV - chocolate covered  coffee beans sounds interesting?? Anything for my caffeine fix!!image

  • TD - X post. Excellent newsimage

  • yer majyer maj ✭✭✭

    TD - that's brill news, even if 20ml of fluid is a bit image

    Can I just say that these lceats sound more complicated than a complicated lost me at adaptor plate...

    ETA:  TD I'm following you on Strava now so you should be able to find/avoid me quite easilyimage

  • kaz, and others....   it is absolutely critical that you nail your needs of nutrition and hydration...   you performance and recovery will be hugely compromised if you get it wrong...  gels need fluids...  so, there is no point taking a gel on its own..  you need to drink as otherwise it will simply de-hydrate you.   Keeping the carbs, calories and fluids up on a long run, and certainly over 18 miles-ish, is critically important.   On ultras we also need to consider protein intake - hence why we eat real food.  I'm perfectly happy to grab a burger and fries and keep running.   I drink loads when I run..  typically about 300-500ml per hour and I alternate between hi-carb drinks and protein shakes.   

    I know everyone is different..    but unless you have experimented and know that you can comfortably run a marathon on virtually nothing then I really think it would be unwise to assume that you can.


  • TD..  looks...  ermm...  image


  • I would also add...   on hot days, like this weekend, you will also need to replenish your electrolytes due to salt loss when you sweat.   Drinking just water will simply make it worse.   Sports drinks will help with that and if you are on just water then consider an electrolyte tablet that you drop in your water bottle or maybe a chewable version....


  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    I've been reducing my fluid intake on runs since returning from Paris - as I felt that I was becoming a bit fixated by how much I needed to drink.

    I now find that anything up to 10 miles I can accomplish without the need for extra fluids (providing I'm hydrated and it's not a hot day). I've been doing quite a few runs at 13-14 miles in preparation for my next half (I's the Tricky plan image ) but I've been finding that I'm running out of energy towards the end. I tried Shotblocks once, it was a bit tricky to eat but not too bad, and I did feel better at the end. One run does not an experiment make, so I will keep trying but if Jelly Babies (or beans - like the sound of them) were considered to be just as good then I would go for them.

    DV - Pizza? I'd probably end up wearing it.

    Tricky - lovely picture. If that was an old MRI does it mean that you've had it for some time? Great to hear that it's nothing to worry about. Maybe you should carry a hatpin?

    Been using Nuuns in water too for when I do need fluid and they seem ok - but they get a bit frothy in my water bottel

  • Orbutt..   anything up to about 15 miles I think most people could probably run (or at least survive) without any major need for fluids or food...   from 18 miles or so onwards and the body has different needs as your glycogen levels diminish and you shift to fat burn.   Get this wrong and, especially when combined with de-hydration, and you can 'bonk' - sometimes known as 'hitting the wall'.    It is much more sensible to keep your body topped up from the start rather than run your tank empty and then be fighting to fuel/drink on the move.   

    You don't need to become fixated with numbers...   just understand the needs of your body and practice with different things.    Try maybe six different brands of gels and see what works for you.  They aren't all the same and some are more palatable/digestable than others.

    Your comment about running out of energy is precisely an example of what I'm saying.


  • ok - I give and will go back to using some kind  of fluids etc this week on my first 20miler. I  think, at the moment, because I am doing all my running so early it is really cool and probably not sweating as much etc so don't notice any hydration problems. Next week all changes when I do my LSR's at 9.30am as kids will be back at school. Mind you this is Orkney and it is hardly likely to be warm!!!

    Anybody ever tried AA energy drinks?? The drink being supplied in Amsterdam??

    I have hurt my heel today......really sore to put any weight on it?? Icing it, hoping it will help???image

  • Kaz1 - yes, it wasn't bad but I thought it was pretty acid-y. Which isn;t brilliant when you're shaking it all around.

    Also, perhaps you need to omit the 20 miler for a few days! Rest, ice, see a doctor/physio if it swells...

  • Yer maj - what is a snagging list?

  • Eggyh73Eggyh73 ✭✭✭

    Kaz - I've had AA when running in Amsterdam. I didn't have any problems with it. Tastes as vile as any other sports drink. Just be aware in the 'Dam when you hear some Dutch person shouting "aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaa" they're not hurt, that's the sports drinks in the ever useless cup format.

  • Bloody cups.........grrrrrr......maybe a good thing that its at everystation then - never manage to consume more than a mouthful from a cup..........Might be worth my while  getting some to try??? Or will I just use the ones I have done previously??? Just planning on travelling really light. Bloody hell its  weeks away and listen to me!!!image

  • Eggyh73Eggyh73 ✭✭✭

    I've never seen AA on sale outside of The Netherlands. Everey station had water and AA on offer, at least they have every time I've ran over there.

  • Hi dee ho campers!

    DLR - BOOO HOOO on the dam! but glad you're taking a cautious approach.  Guess I won't see you next weekend image

    Gels etc - I use sis go-gels.  They're larger at 60mls than most gels but that's because there's more water in them so not 100% necessary to have with water which I find easier for LSRs (than carrying water).  I take a gel every 7-8kms for any run over 15kms and it really helps me maintain energy during runs.

    umm...TD - knee...ewh! but +1 for google diagnosis.  On the cleats.  You were lucky.  Mate had his new cleats come unscrewed on a ride and couldn't get his feet out!  as one screw in each cleat stayed in.  Almost had a technical dismount but at the last minute got one foot out.

    As for me.  No running after mad cycle ride on saturday but was quite hungover this morning image Maybe tomorrow.  Marathon watching was amazing (yay for the levitation photos from RR!) too.  Whole city full of happy people.  very different from normal.image Hyde park was an amazing way to finish the olympics.  Blur were stonking!!!  AND news of this morning.  Valerie adams has got the GOLD in shotput!  The woMAN failed a drugs test or two. image So that's 6 golds for NZ!  YAY! but I'm annoyed I didn't get my national anthem in the olympic park.

  • They sell AA here too. I quite like it!

    OO: Congrats on the parkrun victory!

    TD: "will only hurt like a severe muscle strain"?!!

    DV: how's the barefoot campaign going? interesting to hear you thoughts on nutrition. Maybe I need to think about electrolytes. I always figured I was probably ok as I fill my water bottles from the tap at home, which we don't normally drink as we have a softener which adds salt. At least, that's what the doctor told us when our kids were born. Maybe its all a scam to sell more Evian.

    It's a bank holiday on weds and I'm considering entering a half marathon that's being organised. I've never done one before, so guaranteed a PBimage The forecast is for 29 degrees though.
  • Wet t-shirt competition anyone..?   image

    Did my barefoot run for this evening..  literally just as soon as I started running, the clouds darkened, torrential rain started and then thunder and lightning...!!   WTF!   It was lovely before 5 minutes before I went out.   I got drenched.   Totally soaked to the skin...   I didn't want to stop though and at least the grass was nice and soft.   The running is really good and it forces me to have a good posture and foot strike.   I can feel the muscles working in the feet and lower legs.   No negative side-effects yet.  Only positive thoughts on it so far....    


  • DannirrDannirr ✭✭✭

    TD - good stuff on the knee

    Nutrition is essential on long runs (by long I think 90 minutes) - more so than fluids. You gotta stay ahead of it - o taking something every 30-45 mins is suggested and that's what I do. I cant say I feel the effect, but I think without them (gels for me) I would feel more fatigued, perform less well and thus not really get the full benefit of that training session, and possibly hit the wall on a really long run.  But, as DV says, it is very individual - I just dont see a downside to taking the nutrition in.

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