Paris Marathon 2013

ATM

Trevor * Usual numptie disclaimer appies...to me, I mean...* I know that even very experienced ,Parisian, club runners have not managed negative splits on this course and their advice is not to aim for them. The second half is harder than the first and, well, it's the second half.

Not that that should be the thing that decides you. It might be worth considering , though, at least 'til you're around 20 miles.Then, you can see how you feel.The last 6 miles are , certainly, flat.

Congratulations on your new PB 'looks like you'll leave the 4-hour bar way behind you.

[Deleted User]

Orbutt wrote (see)

Nobody puts Weedy in the corner

Can see why you thought Dirty Dancing, but nope. Maybe not so easy this week...

Last week's for those who didn't get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lge2_H_8IQ

TrevO

Thanks ATM, I'm really chuffed as it makes all this training worthwhile. Its not that long ago that I would have laughed if someone suggested I could run 13miles at a 7:33 average!

Will see how I'm feeling at the end of the next 8weeks of training and hopefully do a better than expected time in Paris without getting ahead of myself.

ATM

T, you could be getting dangerously close to having to buy the first round in the pub....

Weedy, that's a fab clip. In fact,the  meet-and-greet at the Arc could go on similar lines...

PC -

Well done Trevor that's enormous PB. Any specfic changes in your training which have helped you ?

Also good question about splits and thanks Eggy and ATM for your wise replies

TrevO

Thanks PC, I only really started running last year after deciding my body couldnt cope with rugby anymore. Would say its down to just plenty more training. Although I had a training plan for my last half marathon I didnt have anything like the base fitness level I have now built up and have done much more speed work.

Running Rodent

A thought on pacemaking - which won't help you Alasdair, but may be of interest to others. Last year I was aiming for 4:15, but hadn't planned to use the pacemakers. However, after a few miles in, I found I was keeping a steady distance from a guy with a 4:15 balloon, so I decided to stick with him, which I did. It was quite late on that I realised that either his pacing was well off, or I was actually following the 4:15 pacemaker from the first wave, when I had actually started with the second wave. Result - finish in around 4:08, negative split (albeit only by 29 seconds). So be aware that there are different pacemakers around.

Dannirr

Vicky - I had very similar leg issues until I increased my protein intake. A lot. Every night I know have a protein shake (20 g of protein in it) in addition to a high protein breakfast. Made a huge difference. I'd suggest avoiding Aspirin. While indicated for many people, it would have no use for you and even in small doses can have side effects.



Eggy - hope you are recovering

Dannirr

Vicky - if you keep to your training, those 16 milers will feel short soon and you'll be ready for the full marathon..



Here's today's RW quote, from Tim Noakes:



"Your body will argue that there is no justifiable reason to continue. Your only recourse is to call on your spirit, which fortunately functions independently of logic."

yer maj

I think I left my spirit at the side of the road today.  13k with 5 x 600m @ 5k pace.  I truly have no idea what my 5k pace is any more so I just went somewhere between interval and temp pace.  Not done any speed work for a few weeks due to injury so it was a little demanding...

Dave The Iron Ex- Spartan

Both of us have come down with calf injuries, Sue worse than mine so we are both having a few days rest But both of us should be ok for Wrexham at the weekend

[Deleted User]

Vicky - I'd echo Dannirr. Avoid aspirin, unless prescribed by your GP. Your training sounds like it's going very well.

James B73

I decided to do my long run on friday night. 15 miles done in 2 hrs 17 mins.

I ran around some country lanes. It was dark and spooky. Mile 12 was done in 8 minutes. This was due to some aggressive looking dog chasing after me.

Then I beered it up all weekend.

Orbutt

James - NO. I'm reliably informed that it is called re-hydrating, not beered up

Dave look after your calves - I got told off by my physio when I explained I'd taken a few days rest after a calf injury

Orbutt

We are a chatty bunch this year - over 9,400 posts so far.

Last year's forum didn't hit that number until May 5th.

Last year on Feb 11th there had been 3780 posts.

Can you tell I'm bored 

helterskelter

Ha ha ha James, I wonder what kind of times we'd get if there were dogs chasing the field for the whole marathon! Would possibly all get a bit 'hunger games' though

RR here was me thinking that negative splits were a myth made up by Runners World. Well done!

I had grand plans last week. I was going to get 5 runs in and even do my tempo run like a good runner. But no, work interfered as per normal and I got a grand total of 0 runs in. Why oh why does work always always get in the way? More to the point, why do some people manage to get away with not caring and I end up working 15 hour days? It's my problem I think, rather than theirs. Anyway this week shall be better.

helterskelter

There's nothing like a good fact Orbutt!

E mmy

Orbutt wrote (see)

James - NO. I'm reliably informed that it is called re-hydrating, not beered up

You are indeed correct

Eggyh73

I just got a waggy finger from the GP and called an idiot!

I've not to run until my cough is gone and my throat is better. Although both are much better today than they have been recently. I don't think she holds runners in much regard and I fear I've done little to aid our cause.

helterskelter

No running with a cough Eggy - specially in winter. Wag wag wag.

Eggyh73

But, but, but....

[Deleted User]

Hi guys i am new to here and just trying to get as much advice and tips as possible. I have signed up for Paris Marathon which is my first marathon. I have been following plan as best i can since signing up. I generally do 2/3 runs a week depending on my shifts( whether nights shift etc) and try to go to a cardio class once a week. I did 17miles yeaterday in 2hours 45mins. After 13miles my legs were agony, especially my calves and achillies. It was snowing and i was running along the beach front so not sure if that maybe impacted on my legs?I felt terrible after my run, felt really sick and generally knackered. During my run  i consumed 2 energy gels (caffine free), 4 wine gums and 2 bits of fudge as well as 1l water. Is that way too much to be taking induring my run? As race day approaches i am beginning to panic slightly, so any advice at all would be great!!!

Eggyh73

Emma - Hi, welcome to the thread.

To me 1 litre of water sounds like a lot for that length of run. I'd normally be about half that.

Snow and beach running could certainly tire the legs. How did you manage your pace? What time are you aiming for in Paris? That being your long run should be at an easy pace. Is that the furthest you've ran so far? If so expect it to hurt. Also are your other runs short in length, or do you get regular middle distance type runs in to help build your stamina (9-13 miles)? If you are jumping from very short runs to long weekend runs they'll certainly hurt more as you build up the distance of those long runs.

[Deleted User]

Hi Eggy thanks so much for ur reply!

I am using a garmin and average pace for long runs is 9min 42sec. I would like if im honest to get 4hr 30min in Paris but my main aim is to complete it without having to walk!Yup 17 is the furthest i have done so far, the last 2miles felt like forever!!!My paln has me doing a 3mile kog at approx 10.30/mile and 7.5 at 8mi.mile which i am not managing. for my 7.5mile i am averaging 8.40min/mile. Would i be better cutting out my cardio classes just now? i am nurse so depending on my shifts i sometimes really struggle to fit 3runs in unless i do them 3consecutive days?What nutrition would u suggest i take for my long runs??

 

[Deleted User]

Iain Moore 2 wrote (see)

Vicky - I'd echo Dannirr. Avoid aspirin, unless prescribed by your GP. Your training sounds like it's going very well.

Dannirr wrote (see)

Vicky - I had very similar leg issues until I increased my protein intake. A lot. Every night I know have a protein shake (20 g of protein in it) in addition to a high protein breakfast. Made a huge difference. I'd suggest avoiding Aspirin. While indicated for many people, it would have no use for you and even in small doses can have side effects.

Eggy - hope you are recovering

Thanks guys - really helpful.  My boyfriend was pushing me to take more protien shakes but as a girl was a bit nervous of getting bigger from it!! After a run of more than an hour i make myself a shake with 25g protien and 4-5g of l glutamine and milk.  I guess i could definately include more in my diet too.  That coupled with stretching tips etc. should work!

Got 10-12 miles planned this weekend then another 16 miler scheduled before the 20 miler in just under 4 weeks time (am away on holiday in between for a week so am going to have to run when i can then!). 

Is that kind of jump ok from 16 miles to 20 or should i try to do 18 miles before the 20 mile run?

Eggyh73

Long run nutrition is really trial and error. What works for one person will make another ill. I use a mix of SIS gels and shotblocks on my long runs.

I'd say for a 4:30 marathon time running your long training runs at 9:42 is way, way too fast. You ran that training run at sub 4:15 pace! For a 4:30 marathon you should be aiming for 11/11:30 miles on your long runs. The point of those runs is time on feet and stamina. No wonder you felt burnt out.

I'd say if you need to cut the classes to get three runs in then cut the classes until after the marathon. Three runs a week is the minimum I've seen anyone recommend for marathon training. I'd also try if possible to get one longer midweek run in to compliment your long runs. If you can try and get a 9/10 mile run in through the week it would help your stamina for the race. If running the distance is the goal you need to think in terms of building stamina rather than going fast. From what you're describing it looks like you risk setting out too fast and running a big risk of burning out and suffering badly in the final few miles.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the adivce Eggy i appreciate it! As a beginner runner i feel a bit lost with all the different forums etc! In the mid week runs that u r suggesting should i be doing these at a faster pace than my long run?To go back to the nutrition i completely understand what ur saying with trial and error, caffine gels r a big no no for me but i have been using the ones without caffine but i am unsure how many i should be taking during long runs?Im not sure if i take too much or not enought? I have read on a lot of different sites that first time marathon runners actually put weight on as they over consume so im trying hard to avoid that as weight gain is a big no for me!

Running Rodent

Emma - general view is that your long runs should be done at a pace noticeably slower than the pace you're aiming at for the race, because what you're doing is aiming to teach your body to burn fat. So, at the moment I'd say you're doing your long runs at the sort of pace a 3:45 hour marathon runner would be doing, which would explain why your legs hurt, especially if you're running on sand . Try dropping the pace to at least 10 minute miles, and see how you get on.

[Deleted User]

Thanks RR, will slow my pace down a bit on my long runs now!!!Was beginning to panic that if thats how my legs were feeling after 17 how was i ever going to get to 26!!!

Running Rodent

Whoops - cross post with Eggy. At least we're both agreeing about the long runs, if we're not exactly agreeing on the pace! (However, I'd probably trust Eggy's maths over mine ). But definitely slow down!