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Paris Marathon 2013
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SP 13 - 10 marathons and 25kg lost are impressive achievements! Have a wonderful birthday weekend
My sub 4 assault starts here - I'm certain I have one in me so I'm collecting every learning point going
25kg? That's an imense loss! Congratulations on that and the birthday!
Jus T - I'm not sure about running on Saturday morning, but I might be able to meet up with you afterwards. I'm currently arranging to get my shots for Ethiopia though, and it depends what time they can fit me in (for those I haven't bored rigid about this yet, my next race is the Great Ethiopian Half Marathon in Hawassa next month. Which I fully expect to finish at the back of
What TD said above - but I'd also be interested in anyone's views about going longer. The next race I'm doing seriously (Ethiopia's for the experience, not the time) is a 35 miler in September. I have a training plan (from the delightfully-named 'Relentless Forward Progress' book), but it doesn't look all that much bigger in terms of training volumes than P&D. I assume the key is the back-to-backs at the weekends, and dropping the pace (I'm thinking run walk with 28 run/2 walk would work). Any thoughts?
Thanks yer_maj and Dirty Leeds Rob! I'll drink a glass of wine for both of you.
..
... and possibly for everyone else on this thread!
TD - I think the last couple of pages have been about my learning points. Previous stomach issues had made me nervous about gels etc, so I didn't take enough on board. I will be training with diluted gels on long runs from now on.
Due to work commitments (the things we do for money) I can only train of an evening during the week, so this makes Medium slow runs over about 8 miles difficult. Last year I ran 5 times per week, hoping the extra running would make up for lack of distance. I'm now thinking that maybe the 5th night was not as benificial as it could be. So I'm thinking of running 4 nights and adding a Core workout night. Does this make sense or am I best sticking to 5.
I'd been using some 'speed' sessions in my training - and they seem to have done the trick with my half time, so I will continue with them. They are also as break from plodding.
Thanks Rodent. (Once took the children to Hamburg to cheer me on at the marathon. My husband took them round. He said that the start in the Reeperbahn was very interesting in the morning and that he regretted a certain short cut through back streets with three young children. )
SP13 - Happy Birthday
10 marathons before 40. That's a target I'd like to set myself. However, I'd need a Tardis
Maus - hope you're doing ok. Just hold out one more day!
There's a lot to catch up on!
RE: Gel debate. I've tried lots of different things in my pursuit of energy and you really need to see how things work for you and also try them again. I used to hate power gels but now they're OK.
RR - I'm very jealous of your Ethiopia run! That sounds absolutely fantastic!
RS - I've looked back at the video. It was "call me maybe" - they didn't catch: help, bohemian rapsody or any other classics we belted out
Kaz- happy birthday to your little sis
SP13 - Alles Gute zum Geburtstag!
Gels - been training with sis gels and shotbloks. Shot looks gave me stomach issues so went with sis gels, alternating with caffeine containing ones. Nausea from 30k meant I could only drink water and try not to vomit. This was conditioning abd a reflection of my abortive training. Lessons learnt - follow a training plan properly. (I'm sure that sounds VERY familiar!)
For what they're worth I'll pop back on after work and give my collected thoughts on progression based on marathons to date.
congratualtions SP13 on amazing weight loss, turning your life around, finishing al the those marathons - and many happy returns for the big FOUR ZERO!
i'm feeling like pants this morning, the cold has gone to my chest a bit, i have a sore cough, i have to book in for my root canal sooner rather than later. Just T et al, part of my body wants to run tomorrow - because i haven't had this long a break from running for ages. realisitcally it's going to be a few more days before i can get out there. Plus with the achy foot i'll probably have to pass tomorrow - but likewise, if you arrange to go for a drink/meet up with RS and RR over the weekend, i'll swing by for a bit, let me know the details. I'm kidding myself if i think i can go running tomorrow at 11am!
On a cheery note - my running headphones arrived from UKA this morning - result!
Malcs - I use jelly babies - gt thm from up and running - thought I would try them on a training run and they seemed to work.
I took a Hi5 isotonic gel every 5 miles. I also had some of their energy drink tablets - but found this was a pain try to open the sachet and then get it in to the bottle and wait for it to dissolve. My hands were very sticky at the end of it! So I only did this once at 10 miles. Then I only had a few sips of it.
Then the jelly babies, water and then best tasting oranges known to man.
I tried the shotbloks in a few half marathons. But they are in a big packet, so wanted to find something smaller. They too are very good.
Jimbob - I was going to have two weeks rest, but I want to get out running this weekend.
I've also arranged an appointment with the gym instructor at my gym. Going to get some help on strentghening my legs and core. I did some core stability exercises in the weeks leading up to the marathon and I think this helped my knees. Either that or 3 weeks of no running.
Yeah, I don't know if I'm fueling enough, but I defnitely managed to feel pretty darn okay for the whole 4hrs22. I think we might be talking about different Nuun stuff - mine are the soluble tablets! Good advice though, I'll remember not to chew 'em.
This is what I drink: http://www.scienceinsport.com/sis-products/sis-go-range/sis-go-electrolyte/sis-go-electrolyte-500g/ although a quick look at that indicates I should be taking four times the amount (at least). Maybe it's time to invest in a camelbak!
I use Lucozade Jelly beans: http://www.dolphinfitness.co.uk/en/lucozade-sport-body-fuel-jelly-beans-24-30g/25705 which reportedly have 27g of fat in. TD you're right about the chewing and running - I still haven't mastered that and have to eat them one at a time, pretty slowly!
Sports massage yesterday was great but made sitting on the sofa a bit harder. Ho hum, parkrun tomorrow at least.
SP13, that's a really inspirational tale, well done and have a great birthday.
To all those under the weather, look after yourselves, take it easy, training can wait.
Laughing at the chewing whilst on the run comments, I find shotbloks easy to digest but they don't half stick to your teeth, it's a wonder race pics of me don't have me picking the bits off ...
Pilates for me today, will be good to stretch out.
Weedy - I'm so loving my cover, work of genius. Merci buckets!
Kaz - hope the long trip home goes ok x
SP13 - Well done on the weight loss and have a great birthday.
My marathon progression is somewhat more undulating than TD's!
Disney Jan 2007 - 5:15
Amsterdam Oct 2007 - 4:16
Disney Jan 2008 - 4:36 (too hot for big Scottish eejits)
Edinburgh May 2009 - 4:27 (hot, no water!)
Amsterdam Oct 2009 - 4:06
Amsterdam Oct 2010 - 4:01
Berlin Sep 2011 - 4:28 (heat + calf injury)
Paris Apr 2012 - 3:49
Chicago Oct 2012 - 4:04
Paris Apr 2013 - 4:02
London Apr 2013 - ??
From late 2009 until now I do seem to stay near the 4 hour mark, only breaking it once at Paris last year.
excited about London Eggy? do you think you can get a 4 or there abouts?
Marathon running - physically hard, psychological toughness required AND a canny mind to work it all out. I love this sport.
Orbutt - doing many mid-week runs at pretty much the same pace isn't going to provide the mixture of stress and recovery that you need for good adaptation. It's either too easy and not stressing, or too stressful and injury inducing. You have to have nights where you train really hard, and nights when you are going super easy.
I think your idea to drop one of the middling runs and do core workout is very good. Lots of leg strengthening exercises (quads & hamstrings, abductors and adductors, hip flexors, all the little dorsiflexors in the lower leg), PLUS, stomach, lower back and obliques - get these strong and hard will bring better running efficiency and morestable/ effective power delivery.
It probably all sounds a bit like advertising hype, but it makes sense that our legs power us along but as upright beings, we have a lot of weight high up, so being wobbly and flexing too much in the middle means we don't efficiently use our energy for forward movement. Small incremental improvements count for a lot when multiplied over a very long race.
Running Rodent - I wouldn't adapt your training from P&D very much for ultras. But what you could perhaps do is cut the short easy runs on Saturdays and do a MLR in the 20-25k region, then follow with the same as planned LSR on Sunday. This means that you potentially have two MLRs and an LSR on consecutive days, followed by rest. Don't push the pace on these days but settle into long rhthym and i think your stamina/ metabolism will benefit from running in a glycogen depleted state. You are a star btw!
SP13 - that's a great story. 25kgs less after 10 years. Have a fabulous time in Germany. Wunderbar!
I ran 5 miles before work this morning. Not much for mile monsters like you lot, but nice for me.
I think Weedy might be a genius. Great cover, here
https://plus.google.com/photos/117729082344820870557/albums/5805084366828840641/5865871656646207490?banner=pwa
Shotblocks, for me. *The SIS gels were fine for quite a while and then, age/formula/quantity/who knows?, they began to send me off the Chart...
* This year, I carried halved Nunn tablets and added them to the water.Might just 've been in my head, but I thought they helped.
TJB - I'm looking forward to London and a little nervous about it as well, never having done two marathons this close together before. I'm not thinking about a time at all for London. I'm sure I'll be a good bit slower than I was at Paris for this one.
London 2013 is for fun. Any time based races will come once I'm fully recovered and injury free again. If I go for another marathon in the future it'll be all about the time. Training through injury this winter with no speed work at all has taught me that I don't enjoy my running half as much if I don't feel I can improve on my pace.
Thanks again for all the feedback!
James - out of interest how many Jelly Babies did you take?
KS - the soluble tabs are the ones I have too, they fizz up in water. I tried chewing one once and immediately started foaming at the mouth
SP13 - congrats! Wow 25 kg is about the weight of my 7 year old!
In a bit of a quandry now. Do I mix in some gels with the jelly babies or stick to my original plan? I have had nausea at the end of most of my marathons. It's been hard to replicate in training (who would want to replicate it anyway?) so I've been trying to work out what it was and thought it might be the gels.
Originally I thought it could be dehydration or electrolyte depletion because I'm almost white with salt at the end. But I've taken electrolyte tabs (Nuun) and drank plenty during the race (which is always hot by the way). In training runs I don't drink water. You can't get nausea from too much water can you?
Malcs - I'd stick with what you did in training. You can try out new fuelling ideas when you train for the next race.
ok, thanks TD, really appreciate the information on here, I've lots to learn about my body over these distances
on another note, one of the benefits of running a marathon with the tail end of a cold is not catching a fresh one the week after,
I'm so keen to run now - however, I would not recommend this as a big race strategy
and well done sp13, that's amazing weight loss, I know because I've lost about 14 myself but have hit a plateau and am struggling now. I have about another 10 to lose I reckon - still too porky for this game
Thanks Eggy - I think the taper madness is at it's peak at the moment and I'm having second thoughts about everything
it's amazing what the weight loss does for your confidence - although my posture has slipped a bit. When i was bigger i always kept my head up / chin up shoulders back which naturally forced me to hold my stomach in making me look less fatter cause i was self conscious about my weight. Posture is something i'm gonna work on in the coming months along with strengthening of the upper body - weight loss also lead to loss of some muscle tone in the top off making me look a bit more like one of those 118 guys! So when i did VLM i was 92.6kg - just shy of 14.5 stone (which was not the heaviest i've been) - then the other day running at 11.5 stone - it feels like you are taking off like an aeroplane!
But to put into context - not me but Dan - thats Jimbob's Mate Dan to you list fairies - is just over 14 stone - 14/3 he mentioned when he weighed himself last week. (admitably more muscle than blubber) ran Paris (his first mara-including a wall at 20) in 3.43 - which is an incredible performance. Imagine what he could do if he dropped down to 12 which would probably be a "healthier" weight for his height. Well under sub 3 i reckon - that boy is strong physically and mentally. he's a monster over short distances. (btw he got back from paris, then the next day he's taken himself off to Greece for a well earned week's break in the sun)
I'll pass on some of this info about nutrition to JMD - and i appreciate it TD and everyone for sharing the info. Will try to fine tune that side of my game.
TD - thanks, I'll give that a go. I may need to paint on the six pack though.
ATM - agreed, Weedy is indeed a genius and this latest cover just confirms it.
Malcs - too close to change anything too much, now, but as Eggy says - give it a go afterwards. I'm going to go with Tricky's idea of putting them in my water bottles 50:50 with water. Will make them easier to handle and no worries about not taking them with enough water
If you're struggling to decide which gel or drink to take with you on marathon day than the people at Natrun.co.uk have done a good Top five to help you decide.
It's just here: http://bit.ly/Ytwq7w
Thanks, but genius I ain't - I'm just an idiot with too much time on his hands. Got a big ol' list of covers I still want to do (saving some for birthdays and whatnot) so hopefully I'll get round to everyone by the time we meet at Pasta Papas again.
Maus - today any better?
Happy birthday SP