Paris Marathon 2013

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  • Is there an ideal weight ?  ie a BMI or Fat %.  I'm down from 97kg (BMI 30, Fat 28%) to 83kg (BMI 25, Fat 17%).  I would like a new target although when I played around with a finish time predictor which had weight as a parameter, there was little impact for a difference of a couple of kg.

    Happy vibes to Mausy, although I don't really know her, I love the photo image.

  • Happy Birthday SP!

    Hope you ar better MM?

  • Malcs - I usually take 1 or 2 between the gel refuelling so I had about ten. As others have said it is nice to chew on something during the run. I get mine from up and running (usually the ones with cafeine). Can't recall the exact make.

    I think my re-fuelling was spot on. I didn't feel anywhere as near as bad as I felt after one of my 17 mile runs.

    I just didn't have the endurance due to missing a couple of 20 mile runs.

    I agree with others over the intensity of training. As it was my first marathon I trained really hard and didn't do enough of the take it easy runs. Therefore, picked up the knee problem. Which seems to have gone as a result of rest and stretching exercises.

    For Dublin I am going to do more easier runs and take it easier on the whole, but make sure I have some good hard training as well. Plus do a lot more cross training.

    I am actually looking forward to the next one and not with trepidation for Paris.

  • The weight question is something I've been thinking about too. This time last year I was lbs lighter, and I can't work out if it's that I'm eating too much or not enough... I've been told that it's muscle but I've definitely got a bit more 'muffin top' than I would like. 

    In terms of diet, I eat fairly well but do have chocolate and/or crisps on a very close to daily basis.  Cereal for breakfast, oatcakes and fruit for lunch and then pasta/veg for dinner. I have been known to eat a 9inch pizza all to myself in recent weeks (although Mr KS did have one slice), which seems like a bit too much to me.

    What do you reckon, forum deities? Too much or too little?

  • KS - I reckon Mr KS took too much !

  • @KeyserSuze wrote (see)

    I have been known to eat a 9inch pizza all to myself in recent weeks (although Mr KS did have one slice), which seems like a bit too much to me.

    What do you reckon, forum deities? Too much or too little?

    That's soooooooooooooooo not my idea of too much pizza! image

  • I'd love to know the magic formula for the right nutrition during a marathon!

    After quite a bit of trial and error, I found that the drinks/gels with artificial sweeteners seemed to upset my stomach, so I avoid those ones.  My absolute favourite ever running nutrition was Taut sports drink, but they stopped making it and I've been struggling ever since to find a substitute.

    I've been trying High5 4:1, which seems quite good but needs a lot of water to dissolve it, so I'm thinking I might switch to TD's 50:50 gel/water strategy (taking them neat makes me gag).   I quite like the Squeezy gels and Gu, but am going to look around for other options.

  • Ha, thanks guys!

    Maybe I just need to make sure I'm eating enough of the 'good' stuff, and not too much of the 'naughty' stuff. Hard to do when there are Easter eggs sitting around, looking beseechingly at you...

    Off to make a carrot cake after work. That's definitely one of my five a day, isn't it?

  • Hi Everyone,

    New to the site and did my first marathon in Paris in Sunday.  Was going well until the 33rd km when my thighs cramped/spasmed.  I thought i was doing everything right i.e. sipping water and lucozade sport throughout but it didn't seem to help.  Are there any good products etc that can prevent cramp??

    Thanks

    Shona

  • shona murray wrote (see)

    Hi Everyone,

    New to the site and did my first marathon in Paris in Sunday.  Was going well until the 33rd km when my thighs cramped/spasmed.  I thought i was doing everything right i.e. sipping water and lucozade sport throughout but it didn't seem to help.  Are there any good products etc that can prevent cramp?? Thanks Shona

    Hi Shona - i stopped for 30/40 seconds and stretched at about 23km. Did the old calf stretches and quad stretches, i believe i would have had a calf cramp later in the race if i didn't do that. Another thing i do/and did on sunday is to kind of shake your legs a bit during the run to get the lactic moving. It looks a bit silly but it is supposed to help!

  • I bet you looked a sight shaking your legs Jimbob!!!

  • Welcome Shona,

    My first marathon as well, I didn't stretch properly after training runs, plus my legs weren't used to such high milage.  My muscles cramped up during tapering and remained stiff for the race.

    Either Jimbob had an invisible jet pack or his shaking really worked. The boy did good.

  • Shona - There seems to be a lot of mixed information about what causes cramps. The only time I've suffered badly from them during a marathon was in Amsterdam in 2010, when cramping up at 40km caused me to fail in a sub 4 attempt.

    The only thing I've done differently in races since is increase my salt intake a bit in the days leading up to a race, but to be honest I'm not sure that makes a difference. I think the only thing you can do is be careful weith your diet and hydration in the days leading up to the marathon, which is as important as race day nutition. I also think there's a bigger risk if you set off too quickly through the first half of the race, so make sure your pacing is right.

  • Thanks everyone for your comments..will take them all on board but especially like the "shaking" of legs.  Mind you, i would shake just about everything if it meant not cramping again and not cared how i lookedimage someone did mention to me about salt tablets or something like that, that you disolve in water??

  • with regards to the shaking, its kind of like - flicking/loosening/skipping type thingy, like you would with your hands but one leg at a time (otherwise you'll be on the deck faster than gareth bale)  - i only did it a few times, as it interupts your pacing. Getting the hydration spot on is the best way to avoid cramp.

    I probably did look like a bit of a numpty - at the time i felt my running techique was perfect! - but when you watch the video back - whats in your mind and whats in reality are two completely different things!

  • So Jimbobs top tips for marathon running are applying Vaseline to the nether-region and lots of shaking! image

  • I'm watching my videos now and I think my gait still needs a fair bit of work image

     

  • my two litle girls are on their final day of school holidays and unfortunately for them i've got them cooped up in the flat with me while i work from home. They're just watching cbeebies and there was a program on called "Lets PLay" - this episode the game was - marathon running! My two girls were totally abosrbed. it talked about all the things you need to do to run in the marathon. getting the right shoes, bibs, start, running past people in animal costumes, drinking water, struggling along, cramp - it was funny this presenter struggled along doing this pretend marathon teaching the youngsters as she did it - the girls were really watching it and it kept them quiet for the full 20 minute duration.AND I'M SUCH A WET FISH - I GOT EMOTIONAL!

    here it is .... (good if you want to teach yer little'uns about what you do!)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/cbeebies/episode/b01qsjlh/Lets_Play_Runner/

     

  • Eggyh73 wrote (see)

    So Jimbobs top tips for marathon running are applying Vaseline to the nether-region and lots of shaking! image


    Vassing, Shaking and watching Cbeebies - its just all plain wrong

  • The Jimbob wrote (see)
    Eggyh73 wrote (see)
    So Jimbobs top tips for marathon running are applying Vaseline to the nether-region and lots of shaking! image


    Vassing, Shaking and watching Cbeebies - its just all plain wrong

    image

    Shona - I've had a different degrees of cramp in all my marathons. I'm convinced it's down to electrolyte depletion because the time it went best for me was when I took Nuun tabs. I foolishly switched to a different salt tab last year and the cramps were back.

    That said I asked Ruth, the Asics nutritionist, about it and she said that she thought it was more likely that the cramps were due to lack of conditioning - or at least the body not being used to doing distance in warm conditions. If that's the case then I don't know how you're supposed to train for a spring marathon when it's freezing for most of the long runs.

    As Eggy says, there seems to be alot of different views out there.

    James - thanks again. I looked at the up and running web site but couldn't find any JB's on there?

  • Agree that eating Shotbloks on the run is a bit of an art; alternately chomping and breathing kind of works, otherwise you kind of run out of oxygen. I think cramps are both salt and effort related. I had really bad cramping in my legs at the finish this year, which I haven't had before, and I reckon it was caused by my comedy sprint up the final straight to hit the time.



    YM - me too. I don't seem to be heel striking as badly as I was, but there's a very definite mincing photo at one point.



    Anyone else got a watch mark from the weekend image ?
  • Oh dear it gets worse.  According to both Macmillan and Runbayou my VDOT for Sunday was 35, for my HM last October was 36 and for the 10k tune up race I did 5 weeks ago it was 37 and should have indicated a 4:04 marathon.  Arse.  Need to sort the fuelling out for next time.

    RR - I've got two stripes across my elbows from where I had my sleeves pushed up image

  • Shona - hi.

    I got major cramping at 33k and onwards and the cause of my was poor feeding.

    If you were just sipping Lucozade then it doesn't sound like you were taking on enough carbs - my problems exactly.

    Go back a couple of pages and read Tricky Dickys explanation of how many carbs you need during your run. It may well explain the problem
  • James B 73 wrote (see)

    Malcs - I usually take 1 or 2 between the gel refuelling so I had about ten. As others have said it is nice to chew on something during the run. I get mine from up and running (usually the ones with cafeine). Can't recall the exact make.

    I think my re-fuelling was spot on. I didn't feel anywhere as near as bad as I felt after one of my 17 mile runs. I just didn't have the endurance due to missing a couple of 20 mile runs. I agree with others over the intensity of training. As it was my first marathon I trained really hard and didn't do enough of the take it easy runs. Therefore, picked up the knee problem. Which seems to have gone as a result of rest and stretching exercises. For Dublin I am going to do more easier runs and take it easier on the whole, but make sure I have some good hard training as well. Plus do a lot more cross training. I am actually looking forward to the next one and not with trepidation for Paris.

    James - you put in a great effort despite your injury problems so close to the start. Dublin will be much better for the experience.

    Eggyh73 wrote (see)
    @KeyserSuze wrote (see)
    I have been known to eat a 9inch pizza all to myself in recent weeks (although Mr KS did have one slice), which seems like a bit too much to me. What do you reckon, forum deities? Too much or too little?

    That's soooooooooooooooo not my idea of too much pizza! image

    Eggy - I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking, "9 inch pizza, that's a bit smalll..."

    Shona - I reckon you have an electrolyte, mainly salt deficiency, problem as well as probably mild dehydration causing your cramp.

    I agree with Orbutt too re: seeing TD's post about intake of carbs/electrolytes and fluids.

  • In Aberdeen............only one more flight to go, so should be back on home ground by 19.30, then I have a wonderful chore of shopping!



    Kidz must of enjoyed it, they're wanting back next yr!!!!



    I see you've been busy again today.



    I have no info to give, I did everything against the book and had the best run ever!!!!



    Now mt focus is too lose the weight(again), the feeling of my belly bouncy in the last km on Sunday, although giving me the giggles, wasn't nice. More kettlebells, and introduce speed work- either faster paced midweek runs or intervals.



    8 weeks until my next jaunt of the island, so time for some changes..........
  • Hi Shona - the traditional answer to the cramping problem is to mention electrolyte deficiency, but the latest body of scientific opinion raises a lot of doubts about this. There is a superb book out called "The Runner's Body" which I've read and lent to someone/ lost. It has a very good chapter on cramping. I recommend it to you all if you want to be slightly sciencey about how running affects your body and vice-versa.

    The authors espouse the theory mentioned the page before, that actually it just has much more to do with conditioning - that after a period of time, the nervous system just starts to lose timing for muscle contractions and you end up with a perpetually contracted muscle. The cure for cramping is stretching (no nervous system signalling happening then) and after a few seconds, the muscle resets itself. If it was about electrolytes, you would need a much longer chemical process to restore proper function.

    PC91 wrote (see)

    Is there an ideal weight ?  ie a BMI or Fat %. 

    PC91 - most male elite athletes are running with a BF% between 6-7% on race day. For elite ladies that is more like 12-14% (and is much more unhealthy/ danegerous for ladies to go below that. Simply put, their bodies need more fat to function in an optimum way.). In evolutionary terms, it's no problem for men to die, but women have to be able to sustain hard times (no food) much better for babies to live on.

    I once hit 6.9% BF (measured on an electro-conductive body composition monitor) and right now, with minimal running I am around 11-12% BF. Before i started running I was over 20% and would still have been considered 'slim build'. At 6.9% I looked like I had a terminal disease (but could run pretty fast!).

    The scales I use are Omron BF-500, new model out now the BF-511 for under £50 in certain places. Other brands are available image

  • I never want to stand on those Omron scales...image

    It's core work and fun trailing for me. I need to ' get fit', crosstrain, introduce some speedwork (image) and lose a bit of weight. Meantime, I'm taking it easy and recovering from pain-au-chocolate-posioning...

    Next week , I am mostly saving the economy of Cyprus...

  • Tricky Dicky¹ wrote (see)

    Hi Shona - the traditional answer to the cramping problem is to mention electrolyte deficiency, but the latest body of scientific opinion raises a lot of doubts about this. There is a superb book out called "The Runner's Body" which I've read and lent to someone/ lost. It has a very good chapter on cramping. I recommend it to you all if you want to be slightly sciencey about how running affects your body and vice-versa.

    The authors espouse the theory mentioned the page before, that actually it just has much more to do with conditioning - that after a period of time, the nervous system just starts to lose timing for muscle contractions and you end up with a perpetually contracted muscle. The cure for cramping is stretching (no nervous system signalling happening then) and after a few seconds, the muscle resets itself. If it was about electrolytes, you would need a much longer chemical process to restore proper function. TD - interesting theory. I'll check out that book. I still reckon it's got to be a multi-factorial issue though.
  • Excellent news Gemster and Finchy S! image

  • Hi everyone. I've been so touched and humbled by your kind words to me over the last couple of days. Thank you. You've helped enormously.

    Shona, have you tried a magnesium supplement? It's often recommended by sports people in Australia, but it doesn't seem to have the same popularity over here.

    Our panel of resident experts may be able to give you their views on the science and its utility but I've found it does make a difference (in conjunction with soluble electrolytes).

    I've been taking a soluble form made by Bioceuticals (called Ultra Muscleze). I can't easily find it available in the UK, but this might come close.

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