Speed Endurance for 10k?

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  • Hi Calum, it did go quiet on here for a while.  I've not managed sub 40 yet - my last 10k attempt last summer came in at 40.10.  Currently training for a marathon in April, but after that I'm going to have another crack at a fast 10k.  Will probably have another read through this thread at that stage because there's some excellent advice on here.

  • Might aswell join this thread as I'll be looking for a time as close as possible to 40mins in May.

    Currently working on bringing my 5km time to sub 20 mins at the moment which has gone from 25mins at the start of the year to 21mins on the Saturday just gone.

    Training is fairly well structured, just looking to add a few more miles to the plan each week.

    Ran a 10km last year in 45.21 so a lot of improvement required between now and May!

  • lou - so so close.  Great effort!

    Steve, I'm yet to race 5k actually.  I think I could come in under 20 minutes if I did, but just haven't had the chance.  I ran 20:11 mid-last year on a time-trial by myself, but I was flying then.  I'm probably not quite in that shape at the moment.  It was a hilly 5k - with the second half in particular being uphill.  I reckon a flat 5k course that day, I could have gone a good bit quicker.

    I took my 10k time from about 47 minutes down to 42:01 with about 6 months' training Steve - so I'm sure you can get it down a good few minutes by May.  My PB was from 2004 (46:51), but I hadn't ran a 10k race for years - time trial of about 47 minutes was all I had to go on.

    Loads of great tips in this thread.  I've also bookmarked these guys:

    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/training/breaking-40min-10k/202273.html

    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/training/1-mile-reps---how-fast/257579.html

    Some great tips and advice across the three threads.  Well worth a read!

  • Cheers Callum, I'll take a look through them links a little later (think I've already read through the breaking 40min 10km).

    My 5km time isn't far off now and think will be reached by the end of this month leaving me to focus on the 10km. 

    Training is going well at the moment, with 2 steady/easy runs midweek of 6 miles, 1 long run of 10miles (increasing to 12-13miles) at an easy pace and 2 quality sessions.

  • So, yeah - still very quiet on this thread.  How's the training going for those in the hunt for sub 40, and those already well below that?

    Since my previous post, I've been working pretty hard - 5 weeks of really solid training under my belt now and I'm in good shape and feeling confident.  Running 6 times a week (mostly easy, with 2 "hard" sessions per week).

    Big session next week of 8 x 1km intervals at sub 40 pace, followed up by 5 x 200m.  If I nail that session, I'll be definitely heading to Garioch 10k and attempting to run sub 40.

  • Best 10K thread on the site!

    I've got a 10K race tomorrow and preparation has gone well.

    I did a 4 mile time trial in 21:51 last week (its an old tradition of mine to attempt 4 miles at race pace a week before the race.....and so far it has been an accurate predictor) and am hoping for a sub 34:30 time, which would be a PB.

    Only problem is high winds are forecast.....they can really tear a chunk out of a race time! image

  • Good luck Jamie!  Sub 34:30 sounds a long long way off for me, but hopefully I can get down to that in a few years' time... image

  • It doesn't feel that long ago that I was training for sub 40 mins. I was pounding out 6:24 mile reps in preparation. It was only 2011 !! Feels like five minutes ago......

    Times can drop significantly with a good plan.....and very quickly too. I've managed to reduce my 10K times by as much as 2 mins a year when injury free.

    Age, injury and a poor training plan are the only real enemies of quick performance improvements. 

     

  • Yeah - I'm confident of pulling the times down from now on.  I ran 42:01 last year but on reflection (I thought the training was good, but) the training wasn't that great.  It was just training, which I hadn't done before so I was always going to hit a half decent time (having not gone sub 46 on previous attempts on next to no training).

    I'm already showing signs of massive improvements off the back of just about 5 weeks of the new training regime.

    I know a guy who has just ran 35:47 - his PB in 2011 was 42:01 after being new to running which is exactly the same as me last year.  Hopefully, I can take it down to sub 40 in a couple of weeks time and work it down gradually over the next few months to possibly even sub 39, and maybe even towards 38 by the end of this year.  Will see how it all goes though. image

  • CC82 wrote (see)

    Yeah - I'm confident of pulling the times down from now on.  I ran 42:01 last year but on reflection (I thought the training was good, but) the training wasn't that great.  It was just training, which I hadn't done before so I was always going to hit a half decent time (having not gone sub 46 on previous attempts on next to no training).

    I'm already showing signs of massive improvements off the back of just about 5 weeks of the new training regime. I know a guy who has just ran 35:47 - his PB in 2011 was 42:01 after being new to running which is exactly the same as me last year.  Hopefully, I can take it down to sub 40 in a couple of weeks time and work it down gradually over the next few months to possibly even sub 39, and maybe even towards 38 by the end of this year.  Will see how it all goes though. image


    Take your mate as inspiration. It can be done and without killing yourself either. If you keep up a good training throughout the year there is no reason why you couldn't be looking for sub 38 this time next year........

  • Oh well.......didn't quite get my sub 34:30!

    A constant 28 mph wind with 46 mph gusts pushed me to 34:44.

    I think I can reach my goal in a couple of weeks with less windy weather!!!!

    Still a PB though! image

  • Good result in tough conditions Jamie!  Well done!

    2 weeks today until my PB.  First ever 40+ miles week for me this week.  

  • CC82 wrote (see)

    Good result in tough conditions Jamie!  Well done!

    2 weeks today until my PB.  First ever 40+ miles week for me this week.  

    Perfect mentality mate.......do it!

  • Haha - I don't know if I wrote that intentionally... I may have meant to write 'PB attempt' but I am very confident of a PB. Training suggests I am in about 40 minute 10k shape so hoping to dip under 40. PB is 42:01 so to not get a PB would be very disappointing!
  • image Legend

    All I would say is make sure your first quarter mile is not much faster than race pace. Between 90-95 secs would be perfect.

    I've noticed so often how even 40min 10K runners will do a wally when full of start line adrenaline and rattle off a sub 80 sec first quarter mile and bash themselves straight into oxygen debt.

    I'm sure you'll get your PB. Best of luck.....

  • Jamie Newton 2 wrote (see)

    Oh well.......didn't quite get my sub 34:30!

    A constant 28 mph wind with 46 mph gusts pushed me to 34:44. I think I can reach my goal in a couple of weeks with less windy weather!!!! Still a PB though! image

    I had to wait a couple of weeks but did manage to crack 34:30 for 10K yesterday in slightly less windy conditions. I came in at 34:18. Mile 6 was extremely painful!

    Aim for the summer months is to crack 34 mins.....its getting very tough!

  • What a fantastic thread! I've had a read of it and thought I should check my training routine.

    I've been reading 'The Art of Running Faster' by Julian Goater and this has really helped me focus my mind about how to train effectively.

    I got this after completing the Bourton-on-the-Water 10k without really going for it in 45:58 (actually matched my PB) whilst I was training for the Silverstone HM and finished in 1:43:14. I realised that after these two races that I could run much quicker if I increased my dedication.

    I was also hampered in the run up to these two races by old running shoes that I hadn't changed and suffered from calf and shin pain. So historically I've kept away from hill reps as my shins didn't like it. I now have new shoes and I no longer worry about pain.

    So I feel that my base is sorted to some extent and am sensing that I'm having a breakthrough in the last few weeks as parkrun times from 24:24 on the 22nd Feb to 20:50 today (22rd March).

    The book seems to suggest that I need to do quality training along with stretching, a few recovery runs and quick feet all the time.

    I feel that I've settled into a routine and want to make sure its as effective and top quality as it could be. My aim is to bring my 5km time below 20mins and also my 10km as near to 40mins as possible. (currently at 45:58).

    Monday
    Lunch time hill reps from at work. 10 reps of 10m incline in about 1 minute and jog back down to start.
    At evening a light 4 mile session with the running club (avg 5:33min/km) but concentrating on quick feet. 

    Wednesday
    Tough speedwork session with the club, depending on the session decided by the coach we might do 3x4mins (90s rest), 3x3mins (60s rest), 3x1 mins (30s rest). My avg pace was 4:12min/km but slightly hampered by the fact we turn every 1 minute.

    Saturday
    Recently I've been going for PBs at parkrun, usually I use these days for a tempo run to parkrun (7km) then a steady parkrun afterwards.
    Later, I might do a steady 20min recovery run just under 4km.

    I feel that I'm light on long runs but want to start doing some threshold runs on a Friday or Sunday. I'm planning on going out tomorrow but am undecided on pace.

    I have a good couple of months before my next planned race, so want to keep my training momentum going.

    I welcome any comments, advice or suggestions.

     

  • I assume between all this there's some easy running??? Assuming there is, I think there's too much going on. Hill reps, intervals, flat out parkrun all each week. Most guys doing sub 35 10k probably don't do that. 

    Is the above your entire week or have you only told us about the quality stuff??

  • Terribl at first glance, No base miles and a double-quality in a single day. 

    background would help???

  • DT19 wrote (see)

    I assume between all this there's some easy running??? Assuming there is, I think there's too much going on. Hill reps, intervals, flat out parkrun all each week. Most guys doing sub 35 10k probably don't do that. 

    Is the above your entire week or have you only told us about the quality stuff??

    My regular easy running is the Monday evening session with the club and Saturday evening after parkrun.

    I probably agree that I need to include some lighter stuff.

    I normally use parkrun for training rather than going flat out - I just fancied seeing where I am as I've not gone flat out in a race for some time. I don't intend on going flat out this Saturday.

  • On your mileage you certainly don't need to be running doubles. At the early stage you will get faster through any plan. Your doing way too much quality. Base easy miles should form a good 80% of what you do right now.

    One quality session a week and 3/4 easy runs of different times and varying paces would serve you better longer term. You will probably find your base is far from sorted.

    Can you just clarify how many miles a week you run easy and what pace?

  • Yep easy and steady miles are most important. I only do two quality sessions a week (Monday trackwork or hills & Thursday Tempo or time trial) and occasionally throw a few half mile reps into a longer run.

    Too much quality work can hamper progress, bring on injuries and lead to you becoming stale.

     

  • Thanks for the comments.

    I agree that my long runs have slipped and will start getting them back into my routine. I had another read through the book and I had misinterpreted the section on long runs. 

  • You should also remember that the Julian Goater book is aimed at people doing fairly high mileage.  There are obviously a lot of points in that book that any runner can take away, but if you're only running 3-4 times per week, then a lot of that book is probably not pitched at your level of training.

    I was fairly similar to you until a couple of months ago (having read the book "Run Less, Run Faster" which actively encourages only running 3 times per week).  I was in danger of stagnating, but after some great advice, have changed up my plan and I now aim to run 6 times per week.  4 of those are easy runs, with 2 quality sessions (intervals / tempo work).

    In about 6 weeks, I went from about 42 minute 10k form to 40 minute 10k form.

    Hard to say what my PB actually is now because there was a cock up on the 10k yesterday.  I won't bore everyone with the details, but after being one of several runners marshalled the wrong way (much longer route!), I crossed the line in 47:20, but I've been awarded 36:20!!  I went through 9k at 36:21, and was powering on so 40 was on at that point.  Garmin suggests 40:19 as I crossed 10k, but I'm sure I would have gone faster had I been on the home straight with the finish in sight etc.  Maybe not sub 40 but on a tough course (hilly!) in massive headwinds, I would have been delighted with just over 40 minutes yesterday.

    As it stands, I came 5th in 36:20...

  • I found Julian's book invaluable in my quest to run faster 5/10Ks, I particularly wanted to run a sub 40 10K which I managed to achieve in Richmond yesterday. I ran a similar course 2 years ago and did a 51:25. Doing the types of sessions mentioned in the book has made a world of difference. I do other training (for Triathlon) but only do 3 (very occasionally 4) run sessions a week, its definately a case of quality over quantity.

  • Goater does seem to advocate more fast running than most, but he is also clear that any schedule should include at least one easy run (in addition to the long run).

    Whilst i like the passion in Goaters book, In my opinion, Daniels book provides the clearest advice on designing your own schedule. He is unequivocal that for a distance runner, intervals (in which I would include hill reps) should make up no more than 8%, tempo 10%, and long run 30% of the weekly mileage. Therefore, as a minimum, over 50% should be easy running.
  • 2 or 3 days per week intervals (400s, 800s, 1km or mile repeats) or paced runs 3 to 5 miles.

    1 day per week long run between 6 to 10 miles or run Park Run.

    1 or 2 days per week of easy recovery running days 30 seconds slower than targeted 10k pace or cycle for up to an hour.

     

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