Speed Endurance for 10k?

13468919

Comments

  • Yea i suppose i am very ocd when it comes to writing down the millages and times for each of my runs, maybe i should forget about that for a bit and just and try to enjoy my running like you say, think maybe ill try a few new routes too as doing the same routes for the past few years hasnt helped i dont think.

  • My training took a bit of a bash last week as we were away on holiday for a week.  Only managed to get out twice during the week - both for 2.5m "hill" sessions as we were in the middle of some rather large hills (verging on mountains I would guess!).

    First session I did 2.5 miles with overall elevation gain of 574 feet, but second session (the following day) was 2.5 miles with overall elevation gain of 2,587 feet!!  Good strength workouts I guess!  Got home on Saturday so went out on Sunday and tried to combine a little bit of tempo work with some endurance work.  1 mile progressive warm-up, building up to target 10k pace, then attempted 4 miles at target 10k pace as per above advice.  I'm glad I did, because by mile 3 I was struggling.  It was uphill, but I was hoping I could have kept the pace up.  First couple of miles at average of about 6:40 pace, but miles 3 and 4 were up to 7:42 and 7:10 (both uphill, but mile 3 felt like a "recovery" mile).  Obviously, went out too quickly though.  Good lesson learned for the race on Sunday!

    I then ran a further 3 miles home much slower, getting (slightly) progressively quicker (8:24, 7:53, 7:42).

    A decent session though.  I think I'll head out at about 6:50 pace in the 10k and see where I am after 3 miles.  At this stage, I'd be happy with about 42 minutes for the 10k.

    Final speed session tomorrow morning: 6 x 400m at 6:24 pace with 1 min recoveries.  Then an easy 3 miles on Thursday and then race day on Sunday.

    5.5 miles on the bike this morning and probably go round the 8 mile route on the bike on Friday.

    Looking forward to Sunday, I've never really prepared for a race before to be honest. Having this much training behind me gives me a lot of confidence.

  • cliff781 not wearing a watch might be a good thing for a while just to remind you why you took up running in first place. or maybe just wear a watch for the stopwatch to get a rough idea of how long you been out. Try not to be to precise though. so when you finish a run an your watch is saying 1:06:42 for example you might say "good hour of running" the point is you just want to use a the watch for a rough idea how long youve been out.



    Calum keep us posted how you get on with the race this sunday.

    Dont worry about having a low mileage week. Its a good thing to step back once in a while. Stops you falling in the overtraining trap.



    Speed session for me tonight 4 x 1.5m in 8mins with 3min recoveries between.

    did this on local cycle path so more similar to racing conditions than local athletics track. Pace was 5:20min/mile (3secs faster than 10k pace) toyed with idea of doing 2mile reps but think i'd of lost the quality aspect to the session. Hoping to average 5:30 or quicker this sunday in the thirsk 10mile so a longer rep session was relevant I think.
  • andy the deestrider wrote (see)
    cliff781 not wearing a watch might be a good thing for a while just to remind you why you took up running in first place. or maybe just wear a watch for the stopwatch to get a rough idea of how long you been out. Try not to be to precise though. so when you finish a run an your watch is saying 1:06:42 for example you might say "good hour of running" the point is you just want to use a the watch for a rough idea how long youve been out.

    Calum keep us posted how you get on with the race this sunday.
    Dont worry about having a low mileage week. Its a good thing to step back once in a while. Stops you falling in the overtraining trap.

    Speed session for me tonight 4 x 1.5m in 8mins with 3min recoveries between.
    did this on local cycle path so more similar to racing conditions than local athletics track. Pace was 5:20min/mile (3secs faster than 10k pace) toyed with idea of doing 2mile reps but think i'd of lost the quality aspect to the session. Hoping to average 5:30 or quicker this sunday in the thirsk 10mile so a longer rep session was relevant I think.

    Some of your sessions are terrific Andy. I'm doing a 1.55 mile race on Friday and will be happy with any of your rep results as my race result!!! Ha ha

  • 6 x 400m this morning aiming for 6:24 pace (1 min recoveries).  Managed it for 5 out of the 6, but the one steep hill was on rep 5 and I was nowhere near the pace - think it was about 7:50!  And once I got to the top of the hill my legs were struggling a wee bit (the "jelly" feeling) - I haven't felt that this year!  Good session though and managed the 6:24 pace for the last rep so happy with that.

    Another good lesson for Sunday though - a sub 40 minute 10k is definitely not doable for me yet!!  I tried to do a broken up 1.5 miles at that pace this morning and didn't quite manage!!

    Looking forward to the race on Sunday - just hope the snow melts by then!

  • Here's another thought for you people that run much faster than me...

    How much difference could it make if I changed my running shoes?  I'm not going to change them before the race on Sunday obviously, but have been contemplating looking for a more minimalist shoe.  I've had the same pair of running shoes for probably 4 or 5 years and they're pretty bulky.  I got gait analysis etc. at the time from the running shop and these were one of the two recommended by the sales assistant.  I don't know what they are some sort of NB pair - with fairly bulky cushioning.

    I definitely used to be a heel striker, so my knees and ankles were thankful of that cushioning in the past, but I wonder if they could be holding me back slightly than if I was to wear something much lighter?  (I don't heel strike anymore - more midfoot strike now)

    I think I'm going to try something more minimalist at some point in the near future anyway, but just wondering what others think about it?

  • Please don't touch your shoes before the race, its too close. Bad idea....

    I personally use three types of trainers in my training. Brooks Glycerine 9s for long runs (too heavy to race, but well cushioned), I use some light NBs (I'll check the number) for faster training and longer road races (10K +) and also some bright green Adidas Adizero pros for short road races and track (feather light, but really take some getting used to).

    Without training and adapting to a more minimalist shoe you may find that you pick up some nasty calf and knee aches. Minimalist/racing shoes need to be gradually phased in. 

  • Jamie - cheers.  I wasn't even thinking about changing before the race.  I'm comfortable with the ones I have and haven't had any problems with sore knees/ankles etc. since I stopped the heel striking.

    It was more for future reference really.  I hadn't really thought about mixing up which shoes to use for different runs though - that sounds like a good idea!  I was thinking about trying out some minimalist (or something more minimalist than what I'm currently using) on shorter runs initially and trying to phase them in and see how I get on.  But definitely not before the 10k.  I may start to introduce them on some short easy runs after the 10k.

  • Calum Crighton wrote (see)

    Jamie - cheers.  I wasn't even thinking about changing before the race.  I'm comfortable with the ones I have and haven't had any problems with sore knees/ankles etc. since I stopped the heel striking.

    It was more for future reference really.  I hadn't really thought about mixing up which shoes to use for different runs though - that sounds like a good idea!  I was thinking about trying out some minimalist (or something more minimalist than what I'm currently using) on shorter runs initially and trying to phase them in and see how I get on.  But definitely not before the 10k.  I may start to introduce them on some short easy runs after the 10k.

    Yeah, mixing up shoes for different days sessions is a great idea, helps keep repetitive strain conditions at bay. It makes sense really, different heights in heel thickness between shoes mean that for each shoe you'll be landing on the ground a touch different or at a slightly different angle.

    And well done for abolishing heel striking. I've been on that case for well over a year and am still failing. Making a conscious effort to land mid foot and increasing my cadence (even on long slow runs) to near 180 steps per minute still hasn't cured me on anything less than 200m reps!  Ha ha 

     

  • That's interesting - I found it quite easy to adjust.  A few easy runs of really concentrating on it, pointing my toes slightly downwards, and landing below my centre of gravity and I do it fairly naturally now.

    I probably still heel strike a little bit, but I used to have to run with knee supports and sometimes ankle supports - none of that is necessary now and I'm covering much more miles than I used to!

    I only just thought about checking my cadence this week - very basic calculation, but counted my steps over 20 seconds and multiplied by 3.  I'm pretty much bang on 180 on slower runs, so happy with that!

  • Calum- personally I think the whole gait analysis its a load of tosh if I'm honest. Every runner I know who's had there gait analysed has also been injured by the shoes they have been given. When I started running I was analysed and the shoes I was sold made running so painfull that I had to take walk breaks after about 10miles for a bit of relief. Knees used to be so sore. Makes me shudder thinkin about it.

    I have tried all the "barefoot" shoes going and if the runner is patient enough to spend several years building up there use I think they'd stay injury free. Calfs take a while to get used to thinner shoes though so you have to be carefull.



    If you want to stop heel striking properly i'd seriously consider getting a thinner pair of shoes and wearing them off road for short runs out maybe 15mins or so while you get used to them. The fact its off road would likely also keep you cadence fast without any conscious effort so out could become instinctive this way to run forefoot and quick.
  • Jamie - good luck at your race. The 8 mins was a long time to be working hard especially after about 7 mins. am thinking this might be a regular session because sometimes after half a dozen reps I loose track of reps because me head gets fried but If the rep is 8mins an recovery is 2mins its really simple then. 10mins is 1rep

    20mins is 2reps and so on. Might go for 2min recoverys next week rather than 2:30, and see how I manage with that. If I manage 4 x 1.5m with 2min walk recoveries i'll have a go at adding another rep as and when able to complete one extra.
  • 1:30:09 for HM on Sunday. Obviously I would have been happier it it had been 10 seconds faster, but fairly please with that considering disrupted training over the last couple of months.

    I think I developed slight strain in my left calf again, so I'll probably take a couple of weeks off completely to see if I can sort it out properly.  Might be an opportunity to get my bike out - hope I can remember how to ride it.  I can see toe clip embarassment ahead.

    I'm a mid-foot striker, but when I got gait analysed when I bought my first pair of shoes I was told I overpronate.  I still buy stability shoes, but think they probably don't really make much difference.  But if it ain't broke.....

  • andy the deestrider wrote (see)
    Jamie - good luck at your race. The 8 mins was a long time to be working hard especially after about 7 mins. am thinking this might be a regular session because sometimes after half a dozen reps I loose track of reps because me head gets fried but If the rep is 8mins an recovery is 2mins its really simple then. 10mins is 1rep
    20mins is 2reps and so on. Might go for 2min recoverys next week rather than 2:30, and see how I manage with that. If I manage 4 x 1.5m with 2min walk recoveries i'll have a go at adding another rep as and when able to complete one extra.

    Thanks Andy, yea sub 8:00 in 1.55 miles would be very nice. If there is no headwind there is a slim chance I'll pull it off. I need 5:10 mile pace; I did 5:18 pace over a 1.71 course with a hill last week....whereas, this is completely on the flat. I'm probably being ambitious, but hell I'll run my guts out and see how it goes.

    I did do a steady effort over the course yesterday and there was a strong headwind throughout. Not a hope I'd get close without total calm or a following wind however.

  • Lou-welldone on the half marathon. Good effort considering...

    The thing thats bugs me about gait analysis is that its natural to overpronate. Unfortunately as runners we fall in to the trap of believing its neccessary when we first start running. I'm not saying we should all start running in sandals or something like in "born to run" but something in the middle would be fine. I like the adidas adios/adizero shoes because theres enough cushioning to protect your feet from every little stone but not enough to force your joints to operate in an unatural way.
  • Jamie You never know. You may manage sub 8 but I wouldn't dwell on it though. Jury do your best an see what happens. I'm rapidly going off the method of runing to pace because I've found if you practice runing to feel you get to know what effort you can sustain for any given distance. I've noticed most out the time that in local races everyone sets off at a faster pace than what they can sustain which means they are just filing there legs with lactic acid sooner so they have to slow down more. With having a staedy start I seem to be passing people in every race why they dont learn is beyond me. In my last race (trafford 10k) there was a guy videoing about 100yds in to race and I was in about 100th place. I ran every mile pretty much the same pace but finnished in 53rd.



    Sorry to go on but I really think most runners would run better times if they coukd just start sensibly at paces they can realistically sustain.
  • andy the deestrider wrote (see)
    Jamie You never know. You may manage sub 8 but I wouldn't dwell on it though. Jury do your best an see what happens. I'm rapidly going off the method of runing to pace because I've found if you practice runing to feel you get to know what effort you can sustain for any given distance. I've noticed most out the time that in local races everyone sets off at a faster pace than what they can sustain which means they are just filing there legs with lactic acid sooner so they have to slow down more. With having a staedy start I seem to be passing people in every race why they dont learn is beyond me. In my last race (trafford 10k) there was a guy videoing about 100yds in to race and I was in about 100th place. I ran every mile pretty much the same pace but finnished in 53rd.

    Sorry to go on but I really think most runners would run better times if they coukd just start sensibly at paces they can realistically sustain.

    Amen to that; even our best local runners don't seem to be able to run even paced efforts over a flat 10K. Its easy to fall into the bad habit of a fast start with start line adrenaline. Even pacing is surely the way to better times.

  • So, that's all the training runs done...  Did an easy 3.7 miles this morning (averaged 8:44 pace, which feels so slow now!)

    Will head out on my bike for a few miles tomorrow but that's me all trained up and ready to go for Sunday.  Unless something goes horribly wrong, I'll smash my PB - let's just hope I can get down to about 42 minutes on the day.  Fingers crossed image

     

     

  • Hi Calum,

    Watch that first quarter mile carefully; try to keep it to race pace. Most PB attempts are ruined in the first quarter mile by starting too fast with start line adrenaline and bashing too soon into oxygen debt.

    Your true race pace will feel very slow early on, so best to trust your Garmin.

  • Jamie - cheers.  I learnt the lesson on my 4 mile time trial last week that I can't sustain 6:30ish per mile yet, so will slow it down to 6:50 and see how I go from there.  I'm hoping that with it being race day that I'll manage a negative split, but I'm confident that I'll at least get a 42:xx time.  Time will tell though...

  • Brilliant strategy Calum.....

  • So, just back from the 10k.  Came in at just under 43 minutes.  Don't know the official time, but I stopped my Garmin at 43:02 (having forgotten to stop it for a few seconds at the finish).  I'm happy enough with that but think I could have ran the second half a bit more aggressively - I was just too worried about burning myself out too early I think.  The conditions weren't great either - just as I was picking up the pace on mile 5 on a nice downhill, I came round a corner onto the flat to be met with a strong headwind, ruining the momentum I'd picked up on the hill.

    Splits according to my Garmin:  6:40, 6:48, 7:04, 6:56, 7:00, 6:53, 1:39.

    I was really holding back on the first mile, and still ran it a bit quicker than intended - that's probably the reason for the 7:04 on mile 3 (there was a 96 feet elevation gain and it was into the wind as well!).  I did notice loads of people going flying off ahead of me that I overtook by about mile 3 or 4.

    Overall I felt strong throughout though and definitely think on a better day / with more confidence, I could have been closer to 42, but it's still a decent PB in less than ideal conditions!

    Thanks for the training and race day tips on this thread!

    Now eagerly waiting for the official times and to see where I placed out of the 900 runners.  I gave myself an aim of top 50, I might be just outside that, there seemed to be a decent amount of folk ahead of me for most of the race.

  • Good work Calum, thats a very mature set of splits. The first mile is always very strange, even when you want to run it slower, the split often ends up quick.

     

    As for headwinds, I feel your frustration. There is no greater hindrance to a PB opportunity!!!

  • Jamie - thanks.  The "even-ness" of the splits is what I'm most pleased with.  I definitely went past far more runners than went past me.  I did a bit of "racing" as well which was fun - gradually picking off runners, running on their shoulder and then going past them!  In the second half of any event I've taken part of before, I'm just concentrating on staying upright and getting to the end anyway I can.  It's far more fun doing it this way!

    I raced a girl who looked like she was taking it seriously (I saw her at the start in her full club kit etc. and figured she'd know what she was doing and as she lined up beside me, she'd be going for a similar time).  (She didn't realise I was racing her specifically, but I get the impression she was racing me too!)  She took off a bit quicker than me but I made ground on her until about mile 4 and then drew level with her and eased past her and stayed there for the next mile or so - she went past me with about half a mile to go but I blew her away in the sprint finish.  image

    I did also race a young guy running in jogging bottoms and a hoody (!) - he looked and sounded exhausted before we got to mile 2, but he was always just in front or just behind me for the rest of the race.  I thought I'd left him behind in the final mile but he went past me on the final straight and I just couldn't catch him!!

    Next target - Half Marathon on 26th May (Campeltown Half - www.mokrun.com)

    My Half Marathon PB is a pedestrian 1:54 - I could beat that tomorrow with no extra training!  I'm going to try and gun down 1:30ish - wish me luck image

  • Nice to hear from all you guy going well in  your races, im going to do a 10 mile race easter sunday, not expecting too much, my PB on this race in 2008 was 68:48 but due to lack of training be more like 75-80min this year, oh well got all summer to train to get that sub40 10k hopefully this year in September, fingers crossed image

  • Best of luck Cliff!

    I just looked up my previous 10k PBs to find out what they were exactly.  Turns out I over-estimated my performance!

    I ran 46:51 in 2004 and 46:52 in 2009 (and 51:13 and 53:57 in 2010 - they were off of zero training - they hurt far more than any other 10k I've done!!), so I took nearly 4 minutes off my PB yesterday!  Got to be chuffed with that!

  • Hi folks. Haven't been on ere for a while. Just had a rest week unplanned but never the less still feel nice and rested just a slight bit of tightness in the left calf to some reason so just going to run easy on it before any hard sessions. Hope all is well with others.
  • I don't think many have been feeling amazing Andy. I had norovirus at the weekend and seem to be coming down with a cold. The cold/icy/snowy weather and ridiculous winds have near as dammit halted speedwork too.

    Anyway, moan over. I hope your calf improves. A few eccentric exercises should surely help that one out.

    I've got a 5K race at the weekend. Fingers crossed the winds die down.

    Tomorrow I'm hoping to do 3 mile reps at 5K pace if conditions aren't too bad......

  • Got back out training yesterday morning - quite chuffed with the session just 2 days after the 10k pb effort.

    1 mile - 6:18

    400m recovery

    2 miles - 6:34 / 6:51

    800m recovery

    800m - 3:41 (up a steep hill!)

    400m recovery

    800m - 3:11

    I was aiming for a bit quicker than that but didn't want to push it too hard just 2 days after the race.

    Stretching and core strength exercises this morning and heading out for a 5 mile tempo run tomorrow morning.  We've just had a fresh couple of inches of snow in Aberdeenshire!  When is it going to bugger off!?

  • Calum Crighton wrote (see)

    Got back out training yesterday morning - quite chuffed with the session just 2 days after the 10k pb effort.

    1 mile - 6:18 400m recovery 2 miles - 6:34 / 6:51 800m recovery 800m - 3:41 (up a steep hill!) 400m recovery 800m - 3:11 I was aiming for a bit quicker than that but didn't want to push it too hard just 2 days after the race. Stretching and core strength exercises this morning and heading out for a 5 mile tempo run tomorrow morning.  We've just had a fresh couple of inches of snow in Aberdeenshire!  When is it going to bugger off!?


    Running is a funny thing Calum, the old rule is that you should avoid quality work for as many days as correspond to the amount of miles raced. But I strangely perform well in quality sessions just a couple of days after racing too.....no idea why!

13468919
Sign In or Register to comment.