Speed Endurance for 10k?

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  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    I had wondered about holding off this week and just doing some easy miles, but I wasn't feeling any fatigue in my legs at all on Monday, so thought I'd just go out on Tuesday and see how I got on.

    Same goes for tomorrow, if the tempo pace feels too quick, I'll just ease off but everything feels in good order, so I'm not expecting any issues image

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    So - 5 mile tempo run this morning.  First 3 miles at about 6:4x pace, final 2 miles (up that hill!) at about 7:3x pace.  Could have probably pushed on a bit more on those last 2 miles but thought it was best to keep it fairly comfortable after the battering I've given my legs so far this week!!  Legs feel fine now though. image

    Heading out on the bike tomorrow morning and then for a long 13 miler on Saturday.  Can't wait!  The sun's out in Aberdeenshire which is a welcome break from the past few weeks!

  • Just watch you don't overtrain Calum. I'd take that 13 miler on Saturday at conversational pace, no faster.

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Yeah - I'm making sure not to push anything too hard.  The training plan actually has a scheduled 6 mile easy run next Thursday in the place where a tempo run would normally be as well so that will be a good rest for the legs.

    Bought some new running shoes today - Saucony ProGrid with an 8mm drop.  They're a good bit lighter than my current ones, which I think are probably 12mm drop with masses of cushioning.  I'll be sticking with the old ones for the 13 miler on Saturday, but hopefully gradually introduce the new ones for shorter runs.  They've still got a bit of support, so should be able to use them for tempo runs etc.

    I'll hopefully be able to progress to more minimalist.

  • cliff781cliff781 ✭✭✭

    Did the 10 mile race today, nice day but my best ffriend was out to stop me again, the bloody wind haha was pleased with my run considering the training i have done over the last 3-4 months, did the 10 miles in 76min 22sec. time to start training hard again i think to try get back ready for a sub 40min 10k by september, challenge is on.

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Well done Cliff - that's a pretty solid 10 mile time.  I've never raced the distance before, but on a windy day, that's surely a good basis for kicking on for the 10k in September!

    I knocked out my 13 mile training run on Saturday fairly comfortably.  It was actually 13.1 miles on my Garmin, so half marathon distance in 1:40.  I've only ever ran one half marathon race before and that took 1:54!  I can't believe how easy it was to get round in 1:40.  Aiming for sub 1:30 in 8 weeks' time, which I think will be do-able based on how comfortable my run was on Saturday.  Out on the bike this morning - lovely morning in Aberdeenshire (bit cold on the ears to begin with!!).

  • cliff781cliff781 ✭✭✭

    Thanks Calum. Well done if you did that time in training u should get under the 1:30 in the race, and ive got 8 weeks to build on the training. How many miles per week are you currently doing?

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭
    Hi Cliff - I'm at about 25 miles per week at the moment. Following the FIRST plan of running 3 times a week only and cycling twice a week and adding in 1 strength/stretching session. That's for half marathon training - think it will go up to about 30-35 miles per week for marathon training.



    So far it's going really well. The paces are fairly aggressive in each of the workouts compared to other plans by the looks of it but only 3 sessions per week seems to counter that and lower the risk of injury - that seems to be the idea anyway.
  • Hi chaps.  Been reading some of the thread with interest.  Wondered if any of you have much experience with hills and problem with them?

    In short, I will be focussing my summer training on shorter distance races, sub 10 miles but mainly 10k or below.  This starts after my holiday in early May but i'm starting to think about plans now.  I like the look of the structure behind the work here and focussing on specific split times to increase LT/VO2 max etc.

    My trouble is, I live halfway up a hill and there are hills in every single direction.  I know of nowhere around here, anywhere close to here, that is not hilly to some degree.  This is obviously great for hill training but murder if you are trying to do some specific race pace training.

    Any thoughts about this generally?

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Hi SB.  I'm in the same boat as you regarding hills in every direction.  I just embrace it because the races I enter tend to not be flat anyway.

    My last couple of intervals are always back up hill en route home and I just accept that they will be a tad slower but do try to get as close to the target pace as I can.

    I'm only starting out though - 43 minute 10k a couple of weeks ago after training properly for the first time - so the others may have better ideas!

    What I do try to do is run to the nearest village (2.5 miles away) and be sure to get a few intervals (depending on how far those intervals are) in in the village where it is relatively flat.  So I tend to have the first one or two going downhill, then a couple on the flat, then a couple uphill.

    How about lunchtime training?  That's what I was doing at the start of my 10k programme because it was too dark to go out in the mornings before heading to work.  I found a nearby cycle route that I ran back and forth on for intervals sessions.

    For tempo runs, I just try to even out the pacing over the course (slightly slower uphill but maybe make up a few seconds going downhill).

  • Thats a really good read folks nice to see theres more than one on the same boat.

    I too am looking to go sub 40 mins or even getting under 40 mins reading all these replies have helped me bigtime.

  • Cheers Calum, good to see i'm not alone here.

    I work from home so lunchtime training gives me the same predicament really.  I just find it hard to build confidence in accurate splits when the hills seem to have such an impact on my times.  Not the end of the world but I just find the adjustments are hard to measure/guess.

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Official time finally in for Run Garioch 10k - 42:52.  Happy with that!

    Previous PB was 46:51, so just about 4 minutes off.  That was gun time too as there was a problem with chip timing on the day (hence the massive delay in getting official times).

    59th place out of 725 - not quite the top 50 finish I was aiming for, but I was 50th placed male, so I'll take that. image

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Tempo run this morning - knocked out just shy of 10k in 43 minutes.  Was feeling really strong until mile 5 which was that hill again!  Still felt strong but just slowed me down a bit!

    Heading out for a 10 miler on Saturday.  Think I'm going to take in Mormond Hill as I've  not ran it for a while.  From my house up to the top of the hill and home again is about 10 miles and includes a 900 feet elevation gain!  I've only ever done it on pretty poor fitness so will be good to see how I cope with it now.

  • Evening chaps, I've started using a HRM rather than pacing for training runs.  Not so much because of hills, but because I do quite a lot of running across fields and footpath which have been quite muddy recently (not to mention the snow).

    Using a HRM means I can be resonably confident that I'm maintaining a threshold zone pace over any terrain and even on windy days.  I did a 5mile tempo earlier this week, which I would normally do at around 6:40m/m, but because of the wind I was barely able to manage about 7:30 for the second half.  Nevertheless HRM showed that I was 'in the zone'.  Tough session, mind you.

    I've not tried it with intervals, but I reckon it would be good for 1600m; maybe 800m, but I suspect anything less would have too much of a lag.

  • andy the deestrider wrote (see)
    Jamie You never know. You may manage sub 8 but I wouldn't dwell on it though. Jury do your best an see what happens. I'm rapidly going off the method of runing to pace because I've found if you practice runing to feel you get to know what effort you can sustain for any given distance. I've noticed most out the time that in local races everyone sets off at a faster pace than what they can sustain which means they are just filing there legs with lactic acid sooner so they have to slow down more. With having a staedy start I seem to be passing people in every race why they dont learn is beyond me. In my last race (trafford 10k) there was a guy videoing about 100yds in to race and I was in about 100th place. I ran every mile pretty much the same pace but finnished in 53rd.

    Sorry to go on but I really think most runners would run better times if they coukd just start sensibly at paces they can realistically sustain.


    Hi Andy,

    I did rather better expected in that road run (1.55 miles or 2.5K). I was optimistically hoping for sub 8 min but was delighted with 7:34.

    Splits were:

    First 1/4 mile: 62 / 63 secs

    first 1/2 mile: 2:20

    First mile: 4:57 a new PB

     

    Overall average pace 4:56 per mile. Happy clappy.

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Blistering pace Jamie!  Well done image

    Didn't get out this morning for my 10 mile run as we were busy.  Planning to go out tomorrow morning instead - the bloody snow has returned though!  I might just stick to the road rather than up the massive hill as it will be pretty snowy up there!

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    So, this thread has gone a bit quiet...

    How's the training going?

    I'm in HM training just now - 12 days until the Campbeltown Half Marathon.

    Had an injury scare the past few days - thought I had a tibia stress fracture, but had it confirmed that it was just a bit of muscle damage yesterday.  It feels better already... Enforced week+ of no running though, but thankfully it's less than 2 weeks before the race, so hoping that I won't have lost much if any fitness on race day.  Still targeting 1:30(ish).

    I've entered a 10k, 2 weeks after the HM, what would the general advice be for running in between?  I was thinking about only doing easy miles and/or cycling in the few days after the HM and then doing the 4 mile time trial on the weekend between the HM and 10k.  Maybe a short intervals session to sharpen up about 9-10 days after the HM, then just some easy miles from then until the 10k race.  Hoping to take a good minute off the 42:52 10k PB in March.  41:xx would be nice...

  • What were the symptoms of the suspected stress fracture? What  race(s) do you have in mind for the pb attempt(s)?

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    I had a "dull" sort of pain a few inches below my kneecap round towards the inside of the shin on my left leg.  It wasn't sore to press, but it was sore when putting weight on my left foot.

    When I say "sore" it was way down the 1 to 10 scale.  Probably the worst it got was about 3, so more "uncomfortable" than sore.

    I'd convinced myself it was a stress fracture because it didn't feel muscular or anything like that.  The GP was sure it was just a bit of muscle tissue damage (the muscles on the front of the shin "coming away" from the bone), which is the first step towards a stress fracture according to the google "research" I did.  So, if I'd kept going with the same intensity, I'd have been risking a stress fracture.

    Anti-inflammatory tablets from the doc seem to have already sorted it though.  I'll not run for another few days though just to be sure I'm not going to aggravate it.

    Mull of Kintyre HM www.mokrun.com (Unless something goes remarkably tits up, I will get a PB.  My previous PB from 3 years ago is 1:54:xx after no training.  I ran a comfortable 1:40:xx in training about 4 or 5 weeks ago).

    Fraserburgh 10k https://sites.google.com/site/fraserburghrunning/ a couple of weeks later.  It will be more difficult to hit a PB here because of the proximity to the HM and only about 12 weeks or so after taking 4 minutes off my previous 10k PB.

  • You seem a bit of a 'distance tart', by which I mean you do not focus on one distance (or terrain?). I quite enjoy doing different distances (terrains)... part of me says it stops me going stale and training on different surfaces helps prevent injury. But I cannot help but think it stops me from really good times.

    But I think it is better to finish within the top xx% in terms of time or placing rather than going for a time... Having only a few fast flat local courses encourages this approach. That said I am proud of my pb's.....

    Good luck in your races

    ps was the Dr's diagnosis based on examination or x-ray (scan)?

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    I'm new to running (as in new to taking it "seriously") this year.  I really enjoyed the 10k so that may turn out to be my focus, but there's a lack of local races here, so keeping things varied and going for marathons may keep me focussed on longer term goals.  10k racing on its own may lead to boredom as there are only 2 or 3 races local to me per year.  Churning out full 12-16 training programmes just for one 10k race all the time may get a bit tedious.

    I don't know - I'll see how the HM goes and then see how the marathon goes later in the year.  I've got unfinished business with both distances after running them on shit training in the past and having not very good PBs...

    The doc's diagnosis was based on just an examination.  He was definitive that if there was any fracture, him pressing down on the bone would have hurt and I wouldn't be able to walk about comfortably.  The quick working of the anti-inflammatory has me believing him.

  • cybistridercybistrider ✭✭✭
    ye did go a bit quite. glad to read that the injury isn`t as bad as first feared though anyway. i also agree variety is important. after a very disastrous marathon attempt last year this year was going to be dedicated to the 10k distance but you know the marathon bug.......

    managed to sneak a win the other week at the Cheshire 10k image that was a buzz.
  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Awesome - well done Andy!  Winning a 10k (or any race) is way beyond me at the moment... maybe one day though image

  • cybistridercybistrider ✭✭✭
    Just trying to motivate others on here really calum. Wouldn't mind a nice shiny new 10k pb at the Stone 10k in 38days time. Hmmmpph reluctantly going to have to do some more bloody hard mile rep sessions.
  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Fraserburgh 10k today - 42:01.  Another PB image 

    Off the back of not very good race prep too - about 4 weeks ago I had an injury scare which saw me pull back in the 2 weeks leading up to HM race, then the following 2 weeks my legs have been very tight so hardly any running.  Sports massage on Thursday sorted the legs out though and managed to finish strong today after probably a slightly quick start. 1 slow mile in the middle but managed to pick it up for the last 2 miles.

    Focus was going to shift to marathon training but just got asked to be best man at my mate's wedding the same day as Loch Ness Marathon.  Think I'll stick with the shorter distances this year.

     

  • are well in Calum thats great to here. a pb is allways reasurring your doing things right. maybe the injury inforced rest was just what you needed before the race. i had a 10k about 3yrs ago where the 10k race was first run in 28 days, managed to pb by about 10 seconds. so it can work.



    lucky that you didn`t enter Loch ness then Calum. that would of been an awkward excuse i reckon.



    next race for me is the Stone St Micheals 10k. going to be tough to pb there though i reckon. will try anyway.



    20.15m today in 2:16:34. thats this weeks longest run done anyway image
  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Cheers Andy!

    I did have a place at Loch Ness - I'm just not going to tell my mate I'm giving it up for his wedding!!!

    I think everything that's happened over the past month has been good for my running career.  I was starting to realise my marathon goal this year was going to put me under a lot of strain and I kind of wished I hadn't entered the marathon.  The 4 easy weeks before the 10k definitely rested the legs for the 10k.  Now I'm concentrating on shorter distances - marathon won't be in my plans for a co uple of years.

     

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    Meant to say, Andy - good effort on the 20 miler!!

  • cliff781cliff781 ✭✭✭

    Well Done on the PB Calum, got to love that feeling of beating your pb, keep it up.

    Update of my training, up to around 30-40miles per week now, ran a 5k on a hilly course the other day in 19:39, not a pb but happy with the time considering the course. 

    Andy any advice on how to build up my weekly long run, currently on 11miles, trying to get it up to 15miles over the next few months just struggling to get that extra energy ar the moment to go the extra mile? cheers

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