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wearing headphones/earphones
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In a race everyone has a duty to keep good etiquette, and that should really be tailored to that particular race.
I did a 6-lap half-marathon recently and ended up running with the front few. We had some issues with people swerving over the narrow course, and not responding to the (relatively few) times we called out.
If it's a multi-lap event, and the course is narrow, then I think you have a responsibility to be aware of people potentially overtaking: so have music low enough to hear, and don't weave all over the place. Similarly faster runners should try and be courteous and not barge through.
I usually weave around (leaving a foot of space or so), or give a call of 'on your left/right' with a reasonable margin for them to respond (e.g. enough time so if they just heard 'right' and went right, I could go round to the left). [In fact, I'd usually try and pass on the left a la track rules, but obviously that depends on the situation and not so many people will be aware of those rules.]
(In any race, music should be low enough to hear marshalls etc, I just mean you need to be more even aware if the course is narrow, or multi-lap, or whatever else might require more attention).
Just thought I'd chip in as an event orgainser (RunLiverpool Marathon) as we have had a number of phone calls this morning contesting the ruling.
If the event is governed by UKA License (ours is) then the rules are quite clear. You are not allowed to wear listening devices. This is on the basis of safety. The ruling isn't for debate. However, if anyone should choose to wear headphones then it is virtually impossible to implement disqualification in an event of several thousand participants.
If the instruction and ruling is clear and subsequently ignored then don't complain if your are subsequently disqualified. The rule is there for the safety of all concerned.
I find it difficult to understand why there is so much debate about this when the rules are quite clear. As Skotty said, people pick and choose which rules to abide by or ignore.
Just out of interest Alan, and I'm not trolling, I'm curious. What is the policy for hard of hearing or deaf runners? Are they allowed to participate in the event?
Why do people turn up to a collective event and choose to ignore everyone and be alone? Because that's the signal you give out if you're in phones - I'm in my bubble, don't bother about me. So I don't bother about them and try to keep my distance. If they wish to be unsociable, fair enough, but by failing to show courtesy to the rest of us they don't deserve it in return. So if someone in phones doesn't hear my polite "scuse me mate" as I wheeze past, I wheeze past anyway even if that means I have to barge a bit to prevent him from meandering into my path.
It's not good enough to say that the onus is exclusively on the guy overtaking. Anyone else noticed how the iPod zombies are incapable of running in a straight line?
it was only a matter of time.
@AlanRothwell - where can I find the full list of rules for running in a race ?
People running with any kind of disability are normally advised beforehand about any specific instruction. This will vary depending on the nature of the disability.
I think anyone who is hard of hearing or deaf would be used to running in a particular manner and would be aware of sensible precautions that would alert other runners as to their disability.
We operate entry procedure in line with the Disability Discrimination Act and take our responsibility in this area with the respect and legal requirement it deserves.
Normally disabled entrants will advise as to their disbaility upon entry and we will advise accordingly. Disabled participants will normally have instruction about their person (CAUTION BLIND RUNNER) for example. That way other runners are aware as the approach or pass.
It's a common sense approach to participation from both sides.
Seemingly the casual wearing of listening devices isn't. It is based on personal preferance as to whether or not to abide by a specific safety based instruction.
perhaps wearers of listening devices could also identify themselves.
although they might object to wearing the vest saying "MORON" on the back.
I think that races should allow iPods on condition that the wearers have outsize pink fluffy headphones.
I think headphone wearers are a hazard and I have seen some disqualified at the end of a HM, but as for overtaking people at speed the responsibility lies with the overtaker, if you have got your pacing so seriously wrong then expect a few slower runners in front. Generally there is plenty of space to overtake people but what do you do on some trail races where it is single track for a period, you just have to be patient and hold the agreesion till it opens out a bit.
Apart from not hearing runners, headphone wearers also don't hear the shout of car when you are out along roads at smaller races when the traffic isn't shut off.
But agree with most people on here why shut yourself off, listen to your breathing it's a much more useful tool than listening to music
At Race the Train a couple of years back, a woman just in front of me fell slap bang into a dead sheep because she was wearing headphones and didn't hear the Marshall yelling "Dead sheep round the coner" as she was wearing headphones.
That'll learn her.
I think every race needs one of those dead sheep to sort this problem out
I'm sometimes a moron when running on the streets. However, I am always aware of my surroundings and if anybody is walking in the opposite direction (but on the same side of the road) I will always jog on the road until I have passed them (ensuring that I have carefully checked the traffic behind me and even if I am running with the traffic as apposed to against it). Some people can feel quite intimidated if they see somebody running at them so I go on to the road in the hope that they dont see me as a threat. On other days I wont listen to any music and I still adopt the same policy. I have been fortunate enough not to have any accidents in these circumstances. I guess I must be a moron then........
Rumour has it that at events in Wales they have a live sheep on the back of the bike guiding the lead pack ...
Some wear them some don't, and I couldn't care less, when I wear them I enjoy my music and my run, when I don't, I just enjoy the run and other people using them don't matter, there are far more important things to bother about. If someone gets in my way I will show a little patience and courtesy and hope that when I get in the way someone else does this for me.
may as well as the moron tee shirt we could have a get-a-life one too
holds hand up, has moron written on the back of my t.shirt lol I have a hearing loss in my left ear so I wear only one earphone when I do run with them as I have a good right ear ( to compensate ) and have never not heard people Alot of the time I do my training runs along the canal and can still hear a cyclist coming up behind me
the music for me is there when i need it, if i run a race and start chatting to people I actually take the one earphone i have in out, also sometimes depending on how busy a race is I have started off with no music playing and then on the parts where I am running solo and it can get very lonely when you are running by yourself on long stretches ( remember I am a slow runner 13min mile girl for a marathon ) so when i am plodding along slowly sometimes I need abit of music as a distraction, but I hope that I am not tarnished with the same brush as some people who do have disregard for other road runners or the surroundings around them, i am sensible and I have run a half without music at all if it isnt allowed I just dont have my music blasting out for everyone else to listen to, its just quiet background music
so thats the head phone debate
the other debate perhaps of runners not getting out the way and moving safely to overtake cos they have headphones on is slightly different, I dont think again you can say that just cos they are wearing headphones they wont move out the way, the recent HM I ran I was doing a pretty quick last mile ( 9.36min mile - swoon still surprised myself with that time ) and there were people in front of me, who were NOT wearing headphones, that I tried to say, excuse me please and still did not move, so I just waited and bided my time and where there was a wide bit of the path, i overtook them quickly
I havent tried hurdling people yet tho, may give that some consideration for another race
Had someone overtake a friend and I during the London marathon several years back. She shouted to let us know that we needed to make way for her as she couldn't change direction after running for almost 24 miles. I do wonder sometimes if she managed to make the turn at Big Ben or if she simply continued running straight through the crowd and hit it.
You should be aware of your surroundings during a race but if your overtaking then its down to you to do it safely and not take for granted that the person in front of you are going to avoid doing something stupid like change direction suddenly regardless of whether they can hear you or not because they could do for all sorts of reasons.
Hey 13 medals what tee shirt you wearing at Chester?
from my very limited experience, some people are just wrapped up in their own race and seem unable to run and be aware of what is going on around them, wearing headphones or not. however you will always get some people that just do not care about anyone else
the other issue and why most overtaking is necessary is people that start at the 1:40 marker in a HM when only able to run 2 hours they are by far the most annoying, is it really that hard to look back before you stop running and start walking
Still waiting for a thread on headphones to not include anything about deaf runners. They don't have any choice in not being to hear those around them as much as those who choose to wear headphones in races.
Shame the rules on headphones aren't enforced in races as much as they are in a Tri.
I can't believe nobody's even mentioned me in a headphone thread.
My ego will never get over this....
the bib makes sense for blind (or deaf) runners in a race I guess. If only to indicate to other runners in narrow parts of the race not to be a tool and barge past them. although i guess it would have to be advisory or optional, as I'm sure it would break some sort of disability laws (and perhaps some ethical boundaries) to "make" people with an impairment wear a bib to advertise it.
I don't really care whether others race with headphones or without. I've done both, and when I've worn headphones the volume has been such that I can still hear what's going on around me. Similarly, as some others on this thread have commented, some runners sway, especially towards the end of a race, or ignore those around them, regardless of whether they are wearing headphones. Surely we all have a duty to be courteous to those around us, not causing unnecessary obstructions to other runners, nor expecting others to part like the red sea before you.
What if a hearing impared runner also listened to music using earphones ? Would they have to wear the vest saying MORON over or under the bib saying DEAF (no offence to any hearing impared persons out there)
The deaf runner argument is the oldest red herring out there. Deaf runners are involuntarily impaired. iPod wearers are voluntarily impaired.
If the end result is the same, hearing impairment causing problems during a race, should deaf runners be DQ'd on safety grounds along with iPod wearers?
(And, no, thats not a serious question/ suggestion!!)
This is funny.
But if the dead sheep is such a hazard that it needs a last minute warning, why the hell didn't they just move it!
Stevie G beat me to it!
I was going to say - shouldn't they just have dragged the sheep out of the way?
perhaps they were waiting for the crime scene investigators.