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wearing headphones/earphones
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So, recap.
No UKA rule on the subject for road races
If one is put in place by race organizers then "its virtually impossible to implement" (see above)
Seems to me the races that recommend or request, rather than rule, no headphones are being the most sensible and realistic. As whats the have point of making a ruling you have no intention of enforcing?
Whether it`s a rule or not, shouldn`t people just respect the wishes of the race director?
In an ideal world, I guess they would. The fact is thats not happening.
I think the "virtually impossible" comment was about actually preventing runners wearing headphones taking part, not about imposing some penalty on those who do.
The Race Director is personally legally responsible for event safety, and could face criminal prosecution if deemed to be negligent. That's probably pretty unlikely and I've never heard that it's happened, but that's not say it never will.
Assuming that all RDs are forewarned about the potential safety issue by UKA I can't imagine why most events do not have a ban.
Intermanaut - agree it's a strange thing to say, it says it's not for debate then goes on to say but we can't enforce it anyway
Yes, and I think that most entrants do. Regardless of the rule there's always a minority that'll ignore it - that applies to everything in life.
I asked Alan Rothwell where he had found the rule he refers to - he said he didn't know where it was written, but that he'd been told it by a number of sources.
So, looks likely there is no UKA rule on this - but it is up to races to make the rules they choose, and people should respect them. What's so hard about that?
It is hard to enforce though - your only sanction is disqualification, and ensuring enough marshals to not only ensure the safety of runners but also be be noting down the numbers of the ear-phone wearers might be difficult.
This is precisely how we end up with silly rules such as the HSE arguments we know too well, people quote hearsay to expand their own personal viewpoint to the detriment of common sense and rational thinking, and all of a sudden thre epeople say it so it must be true.
Hearsay is quite a strong word. Besides, evidently a lot of people disagree that rules like "no headphones" are a "detriment of common sense and rational thinking" (as I infer you implied).
As an aside, I'm not sure why people wear headphones anyway. Obviously I understand the motivation/boredom argument. I think it's actually much nicer to run without headphones. The difficulty is, it's hard to suddenly change. But that's just like training your legs: it's tough to just go out and run for an hour (or two) just like that, it takes a little time to build up your legs to it. Similarly with coping with boredom. I used to struggle on 1 hour runs without music, now I quite enjoy 2 hour runs without it. It gives you time to actually think about things, sort out your thoughts, etc etc blah blah. It's easy to just say, "it's boring without music", but why not try, starting slowly? You wouldn't do a 10 mile run off the bat, conclude it's hard physically, and then not run again.
And with tongue somewhat in cheek, for things like marathons I agree with the previous poster that the mental challenge is to be endured/relished. You don't do a marathon 'cos it's easy, you do it 'cos it's bloody hard. So don't be a wimp and make it easier; man up and do the mental training as well.
Who says it's only runners who are wearing headphones that do this - have you never encountered this with non-headphone wearing runners?
And to Stevie G - actually I got the hip from an idiot truck driver who forced me off the road 91 miles into a 110 mile training (long) weekend... and no I was not wearing headphones at the time
Someone who can be arsed can put up the article in the UKA rules that talks about "ASSISTANCE" and pacing devices. Basically, anything that "aids" you is covered by it.
Even if there was/is NOTHING in law that prevents you from wearing them, if Alan says "you can't do it in my race" then you DON'T DO IT. Book something else. Otherwise you're a ignorant tosser.
Nowhere near as much, which is hardly surprising when you consider that the people with headphones are basically at least partially disabling the sense most of us use to tell when runners are approaching from behind.
And your disrespectful attitude towards race officials, who are basically volunteers who give up their time to put on an event for the pleasure of you and other runners, is a disgrace to be honest.
Liverbird you're right - anything that aids you is covered depending on how you interpret the rule but if that is the case then why are GPS devices, that clearly are more of an aid than listening to a bit of music, not banned?
Stop being sheep - stand up for your rights
The worrying thing about you Bionic Hip, is this in your status at the bottom.....meaning it's not just occasional selfishness you exhibit, it's a habit!
Also, you run marathons under the legal age.
I bet you throw water bottles in the middle of the road and line up at a place way too fast for your ability as well to not "lose out on a time"
" I have,so far,completed 253 half marathons, 76 marathons and 33 ultra-marathons. I ran my first marathon at age 15 and first ultra at 17"
What puzzles me is why on earth you think any other runners would care whether you wore headphones or not if it wasn't a potential problem? What possible other reason could we have?
Stevie G - just shows how much you have missed the point - at least I'm still running these days and yes I did run several marathons "under age" - those days (1970's) there were no age limits, no I don't throw water bottle around I carry my own hydration and absolutely don't care about time - as long as I can just finish the race (surely the number I have completed should have given you that clue), but I guess you must be talking about yourself regarding tossing bottles and standing in the fast start pens. I have only recently taken to using music simply to keep my mind off the pain of now running with this lump of titanium in my hip but I guess with everything else you have said you have not even considered that point nor have you thought about the hard of hearing amongst us who may choose to not use their hearing aids during run - they are effectively in the same position as someone using headphones i.e quite likely do not hear you coming up from behind etc. except that some of us keep the volumn well down as background sound - and I'll give you that one - there are some who have their music way too loud and are a danger to themselves not just to others around them
BH, some of that isn't fair comment.
Some of your other posts suggest it is your "right" to wear headfones even when the organiser says it's not allowed. It doesn't matter if it's in a precise UKA rulebook or not, the organsier has made it a rule for their race.
That's why i asked about other non handbook things that are rule breaking, like the bottles,and pen hopping.
Why do people always try and link headfone wearers to deaf people! One is a purposeful lack of awareness, and one is a physical handicap. You can't blame a handicapped deaf person for not hearing you, but you can blame some selfish oaf with headfones in who can't!
Simple.
I can't imagine having the no doubt badly damaged hip you have, and fair play for continuing, but if you're saying it's so bad you have to blot the pain out with headfones, maybe doing gruelling distances isn't sensible!
I'd imagine your average ultra is safe as houses for headfone wearing, as the fields will be spaced out.
But your average half marathon, certainly midpack will be congested as anything, and I can't see how you can't be a bit of a hazard to others.
I've had races where I've taken elbows and little trips from people by accident when I've been running in a group of 3!
Except that the organisers mostly just rely on the UKA rules as the reason regardless of the number of runners, the course and the distance and as we have all seen it ain't there. If it ain't there don't try and use that as the excuse - if there is a genuine reason fair enough and I agree with your comment regarding shorter or longer races - don't see the point using them on just a 10k or half marathon as you're only out there for an hour or two but going longer hurts anyway so why not try and use something that helps with the pain - its better than taking some or other drugs that I've seen some using (probably ibuprofen or something along those lines - who knows).
As I said some of us at least do keep the volume down but totally agree there are some who are doing themselves harm anyway with the volume they have their music going at - but that is not just on the road - just need to get on the train or bus.
Should have also said - not stopping just yet - I have a target in mind and I still have a few years in which to achieve that (my dad managed 126 marathons/ultras and 302 half maras by the time he was 72 when he eventually gave up)
RULE 21 ASSISTANCE
(1) The following shall be interpreted as assistance
(a) Pacing by persons not participating in a race, unless assisting a blind
or partially sighted runner.
(b) Receiving advice or similar assistance during an event from an
individual located within the competition area.
(c) The use of any technical device.
Athletes receiving assistance as defined above are liable to be disqualified.
(2) The following shall not be interpreted as assistance:
(a) Communication during an event between athletes, and other persons
not within the competition area.
(b) A medical examination during the progress of an event by medical
personnel solely to determine whether an athlete is fit enough to continue in the competition.
(c) The use of heart monitors in races in excess of 10000m.
Somewhere there's small print that defines mp3 players as technical devices but allows gps watches if used as heart rate monitors.
I'm sure if you use your gps watch as a pacing aid it's cheating. I don't because I can't read the thing when I'm running. Don't know what I'd do if I could.
OK T.mouse but is a GPS not a technical device?
I have tried to do various searches through the document electronically and nowhere is MP3 or such like mentioned. I also wonder how many of us who have one of the variety of GPS watches are using them just as heart rate monitors and even then you can set them to beep at lower or higher limits. I wonder how many of us who wear them at a race are monitoring our pace, time per mile/km or other such reading all of which would then constitute cheating so if we ban one thing we need to ban all devices OR make the rules clearer and more specific.
Yes but if you use it as a heart rate monitor then it is not aiding your running, it has become a medical device that some runners need. I ran a race last year with a chap in his 70's he had to run to hr due to a medical condition. Therefore they 'have' to be allowed. physical discrimination and all that.
Agreed Millsy but are they considered a technical device?
pace bands aren't 'technical devices'. If they were banned then you'd have to ban runners who can do maths.