Manchester Marathon 2013

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  • I knew it!  Just from what you said, as similar things have happened to me before in different shoes.  You wouldn't believe the difference it can make if you get the wrong pair, and I have made expensive mistakes in the past.

    Can you not get another pair the same as the last to be sure?  If its any help, good condition running shoes always sell really well on ebay...I have got rid of loads that way, and sometimes I get more than I paid for them!

    Just write them shoes off, it's not worth it if you are in pain.

    Go to a proper running shop for another analysis maybe?  Not sure where you are but I rate Up and Running in the Triangle, Manchester...all run my runners too

    Panda

  • 16 miler pencilled in for tomorrow morning, in a similar boat to RW in that I've had really stiff calves for the last couple of days and perhaps need to get some better stretches done pre and post run

    Wonder whether the Liverpool "council" issues are similar over here and that's why the Manchester Marathon doesn't enter the city centre as such covering most if not all of its route in Trafford rather than Manchester.

    The days are  getting longer so Spring must be on the way, just hoping to avoid snow or wind on tomorrow's run, I can cope with a bit of rain

    Going to give my water bottle a test too as drinking "on the go" isn't something I've done on my training runs so far

  • Good luck for tomorrow RR.

    That's a good point about Manchester...it's a shame it doesn't go through the city centre in a way, but I suppose it would be a bit of a logisitcal nightmare...mind you, they manage to do it for that Bupa 10k every year?

    What kind of bottle are you taking on your long run?  I take a 500ml on my 20 mile runs, but I make sure I take in somewhere with toilets (in my case Dunham Park) enroute so I can refil.  I take some Lucozade sachets and mix with water from their tap at about 13 miles, and that does me.  I think I would struggle with just 500 mls for 20 miles, even in this weather.  For 17 miles and under I have a smaller bottle that I can put in my coat pocket when empty.  I don't mind carrying a bottle...I can't bear having stuff strapped to me, so couldn't wear a camel back or a bottle belt.

    I went out for about 6.5 today...its bright enough but it's still on the chilly side.  I wasn't warm, even in a coat and with a hat.  Like you say, at least the nights are getting a bit lighter, so we are getting there.

    Hope everyone is well.

  • Trying to get motivated for for a six mile speed session. Think I'm getting soft cos it just feels sooooooo cold! Snow on the ground, damp underfoot. Need to man up and get out!

    Step back week for me this week before pressing on again next week.

    On my long runs i take a bottle belt with me and carry a 500ml bottle and a load of jelly babies. Took a bit of geting used to but hardly feel it anymore.

     

  • I know the feeling. completely lost motivation not run for 3 days image

    fed up of cold and dark now image

  • Well 16 miles this morning, went fairly well. Self-criticism would be that the first 4 miles or so followed my Saturday "easy" route so pyschologically I was struggling a bit as I got to the point where I'm normally heading home but still had another 11 or so miles to run

    Better weather and it was just getting light as I finished the last mile or so which bodes well for the coming weeks

    Used a water bottle for the first time, one of the Karrimor ones so I guess its 500ml but that was enough for me TBH. I use a Holland Barrett sports drink that mixes up to a pint and then you have half before you go out and the rest when you get back and drank water while I was out

    Jelly babies wrapped in silver foil seemed to solve the "sticky" issue!

    My big concern is still settling on a taper (yes I should stop reading articles on the net) and actually get some of the long runs and work out of the way first

    Given that my long run is a Tuesday rather than the weekend, I'm trying to work out my taper from w/c 8th April?, having done a 20 mile run the week before

    I was looking at 16 and then my usual 7,7,7 w/c 8th, then 13 followed by 7,7,7 w/c 15th and then 3 short runs in week leading up to the marathon w/c 22nd with Thu/Fri/Sat "off"

  • Hi there

    Well done!  A nice feeling to get it out of the way.....I must try the foil thing.  Do you use a special belt for carrying them?

    When I have done other marathons my old job used to involve shifts, so I also used to do my long runs in the week.  Is it always Tuesday you have to do?

    Explain again that last bit....I must have baby brain as I don't get it!

    Panda

  • Redpanda wrote (see)

    Hi there

    Well done!  A nice feeling to get it out of the way.....I must try the foil thing.  Do you use a special belt for carrying them? When I have done other marathons my old job used to involve shifts, so I also used to do my long runs in the week.  Is it always Tuesday you have to do? Explain again that last bit....I must have baby brain as I don't get it! Panda

    At the moment, it's dark for the bulk of my runs so I have a high vis vest that I wear over my running gear and that has a couple of useful, side pockets in which to store jelly babies, gloves, hats etc

    Tuesday works best as I don't currently run on a Monday or Wednesday anyway and then I run Thu, Fri and either Sat or Sun. My other half goes to the gym on her way to work for a swim Mon & Wed and I do the school run

    With regard to the taper, I was just working back calculating the taper period from race day which is a straight number of full weeks if you run your long run at weekend but given I do mine on a Tuesday I either end up with a 3 and a bit week taper period or 2 and a bit with the long runs still being on a Tuesday and the Manchester Marathon being on a Sunday

    Basically most people will be doing their last long run exactly a week before the race whereas mine would be 10 days or so

    So my final few weeks of training, running Tues, Thurs, Fri and Sat will look something like this in terms of mileage

    w/c 1/4/2013 Daily mileage 20 (Tu),7(Thu),7(Fri),7(Sat/Sun)

    w/c 8/4/2013 Daily mileage 16,7,7,7

    w/c 15/4/2013 Daily mileage 13,7,7,7

    w/c 22/4/2013 Daily mileage 3,4,3, race on Sunday

  • Ah, I see what you mean...

     

    TBH, that should be fine.  A plan is only a guide, it doesn't have to be written in stoneimage.

    I remember before Edinburgh my plan was similar to yours funny enough.  I was meant to be doing 13 miles on the Sunday before, but it just so happened I was entered into the Bupa 10k which I wasn't about to miss.  Hence, on the Sunday before the marathon I did the 10k, but on the Tues or Wed, of that same week (can't exactly remember) I did the 13 miles I should have done on the Sunday (so identical to yours to be honest)

    Did it work out??  Well, I got PB's in both the 10k's and the marathon!!

    You will be fine

    Panda

  • Training going well for me so far.  The platar faciitis has eased off a little in the last few days - maybe it's getting used to me doing longer distances?

    Am due to do my longest run yet on Sunday - 18 miles and then it's not long until i'm up to the magic 20 mark.  That, I think, is when I will really start to feel like i'm getting properly prepared for this.  In a weird and slightly perverse way, i'm looking forward to taking them longer distances.

    Not missed a session yet but I have had to do some jiggering around with the days.  Managing an on-the-road sales job and a strict training plan are not always perfect bedfellows.

    Good going people.

  • Well done SB !

    My training is going ok as well, I too am up to 18 miles. I did, however, bonk a couple of weeks ago which has forced me to finally look at my nutrition. Gels obtained and will get tested on this weeks LSR. I ran Liversedge HM on Sunday and was pleased to get a PB in what I found a quite tricky course that contained a couple of naughty hills, both up and down, and we started off in the snow. My calves are really struggling the last couple of days but I'm due to do a tempo run at the track tonight so hopefully they will be ok then.

    Keep it up everyone !

  • And yourself mate image

    I haven't taken any scran out with me yet so I am also kicking this part off on Sunday.  I have plumped for the Jelly Babies route, mainly because I used to love them when I was a kid!  Yet to figure out exactly how i'll carry them as my running belt is pretty stingy on storage for anything other than a house key and bottles.

    Take it easy with them calves....

  • I know what you mean about looking forward to the longer runs - there's something very satisfying about adding those extra miles here and there, even better if you still feel good after them!  We did a very hilly 16.5 on Sunday and I felt so good I went and did a fast-ish (and again hilly) 10k last night - not what the training plan would recommend I'm sure, but I managed it and still feel good today.  Maybe the training is paying off after all....

    On the gel front, I recommend High 5 iso-gels - they're a very watery consistency, so not claggy at all, and on my previous marathon I shared one every six miles with the friend I was running with and that worked really well. 

  • I always run in cycle tops.u have 3 pockets at the back and a zip pocket.
  • Hello everyone.  Thought I had better make a reappearance as I haven't been on for ages. 

    Hi Carterusm,  I also  did the Liversedge Half on Sunday and improved my time by 3 mins but I have definitely decided that I don't like the cold.  Now that's over it sounds like I am going to join the rest of you in getting the long runs in.

    I am sure that I have heard somewhere that in the 6-8 weeks leading up to a marathon you are on the right track if your 5 longest runs add up to over 100 miles.  Has anybody else heard this or have I lost the plot already?

     

  • Yep, thats the saying Mark, not sure how "true" it is though. I like long runs so my last 5 longest runs always add up to 100 miles!!image

  • Hi everyone, this threads really getting going now. Bit depressing as not run for a wk & can still feel it. Swam other day will again today. Hopefully be back out there in next wk.
  • Mark - 1.26 and a PB on that course is good going, well done. What time are you aiming for at Manchester ?

    Despite the aching calves I managed a 4.7 tempo run last night @ 7:26mm with a warm up and cool down.

    Another cold spell is forecast so stay positive everyone

  • Morning

    yes, it is picking up, this thread! I always find these threads a big help..I made some really good friends from the Paris and Berlin threads in the past, and it's always nice to make more.

    There are some real speed demons on here!  Everyone seems to be well into their training.  Sorry Rob that you are still not pain free.  Did you book a physio or anything? As you say, just try and keep up with the cross training...Have you tried spinning?  I took it up last year and found it a real help to keep up the cardio fitness when I could no longer run....I find it harder than running in some ways!

    Lymm is cold and miserable and starting to snow!  Today is a rest day anyway...yipeeimage.  Legs a bit sore from last night....did 2 miles fast (for me...slow for most of you!) on the treadmill, then 30 mins on the cross trainer, then my spinning class.  It will be interesting this....I would normally run 5 or 6 days a week in marathon training, but this time it will only be 3 days a week, plus 2 gym sessions and 1 or 2 spin classes.  I am obviously not going to be fast anyway, but I am curious to know if I fair any worse for it?  Saying that, when the weather gets a bit nicer (if it does) I will try and maybe squeeze in one more short run.

    I forgot it was pancake day yesterday!  I could really eat some right now as well! 

    Oh well, we have that Marks and Spencer Valentine meal deal to look forward to tomorrow....though I might have eaten some of the chocolates alreadyimage!

    Happy running

    Panda

  • Everyone seems to be running well at the moment, big well done.

    Ran my hilly 8 mile loop yesterday, fastest I've ever ran it, so things are looking good for Boston and Manchester.

    18 miles planned for Sunday followed by 24 the Sunday after

     

  • Mrs RR away on business for the next couple of days, so a rejigging of the schedule means off out for a run tonite, first night time/evening run for a couple of years but will probably be a fast one as I have to get back to collect eldest son from school Valentine's Disco before getting back in time for the big match

    Glad to hear so many people going well and alot faster too

    Is everyone slotting in a "rest" week or scaled back mileage week at the end of each month or is that something for us newbies?

    Had heard the 5 longest runs totalling 100 before now, I'll probably be nearer 90, also heard that during the taper your run (in terms of mileage) should not be longer than the number of days left until the race, not sure whether these are just "old runner's tales"!

  •  5 longest runs totalling 100 miles? image  My schedule doesn't get up to 20 miles for a few weeks yet.  Bit confusing that one.

  • 5 adding up to 100 is a common rule of thumb, however.... everyone is different and some folks don't need that much long running (if they already have a big aerobic base), some breakdown with injury trying to slavishly follow a guideline and others need more than that! Trick is to listen to your body and do what you can. Experiment of one and all that...



    Carter, if you are bonking after 18miles I suspect that you are running your long runs too quickly. LSR is there to build muscular endurance and a strong aerobic base so you should have plenty of fuel in your fat stores (not calling you lardy!). If you are running in the right HR zone you should be burning plenty of fat as well as glycogen. What pace are you running at? MP plus 60-90seconds is a typical range (it's often said that Kenyan marathoners do most of their long running at 9min miles).



    Reaching for the gels as a matter of routine is training a dependency for carbs rather than teaching your body to access an enormous energy store that you are carrying around in your body fat. Try them a couple of times coming up to the race as practice and use them in the race but for routine training..... not needed.
  • PS turned a corner with my plantar fasciitis too. Up to 45 min runs now. Manchester is ON!!! image
  • Robin, the problem I find with scaling back every 3/4 weeks is that something can crop up in your life the next week and then you have 2 weeks with lower mileage. I tend to fit them in a couple of days either side of my warm up race, run the Sunday but take it easy from the Thursday/ Friday to the following Tuesday/ Wednesday.

  • Good news Joe. Nice one!!

     

  • Plodding along through the week. Still not dropped a training session yet and feel on course. Just struggling with weight issues! 

    Slokey, I've never managed to get to grips with the LSR. You sound like you know what your talking about any chance of some advice? My easy runs are at 10.30min/mile faster ones at 9.30-10min/mile. LSR's I run at 11min miles but I usually end up blowing up after about 14 miles. I've run two marathons and each time have finished in over 5 hours ie averaging less than 11min mile pace. I'd love to complete a mara in 11min mile pace but just seem to go to pieces between 14-20 miles. I'm doing speed work, hills and intervals in my program, as well as long slow runs and recoverys, really enjoy it but just cant cope with the longer runs. ANy advice greatly appreciated. Ta.

    Have a good day everyone.

  • Cybarev, your LSR pace should definitely be slower than your race pace. The adaptations you are looking for from that session are best achieved by getting time on your feet at a moderate heart rate (60-75% of HRmax) which gives you the benefit without wrecking you for the rest of the week. A run at MP (or faster) as you have been doing your LSRs is actually a really tough run do it's no wonder you are crashing after 14 miles or so. If you are taking your full target marathon time to do about 22miles that is generally a good target. A common approach to structuring e.g. a 22mile run would be 5-6 miles really easy, build to MP+20% over a couple of miles and run at that pace to about mile 17 then build the pace to MP+10% for the remaining miles and finish strong.



    If your MP is 11mm then that would be



    Easy at about 14 to 13:10mm

    MP+20% at 13:10 mm ish

    MP+10% at 12:06 mm ish



    This is probably far less intense than you're used to but as said above gives you more chance of completing the distance, gets the miles in your legs, gives you the physiological adaptations you are looking for (capillary and mitochondrial growth), doesn't knacker you for the rest of the week, much better psychologically and saves your matches for race day.



    There are other sessions in any weekly schedule to do any lactate threshold or speed work and as race day approaches you can always build in some MP blocks into your long run e.g. 15 miles with 10 at MP (which is a hard session outside race conditions and untapered) but that's for later on when you are really just sharpening up.



    Run the slow runs slow and your fast runs fast!
  • GazOC wrote (see)

    Robin, the problem I find with scaling back every 3/4 weeks is that something can crop up in your life the next week and then you have 2 weeks with lower mileage. I tend to fit them in a couple of days either side of my warm up race, run the Sunday but take it easy from the Thursday/ Friday to the following Tuesday/ Wednesday.

    Good point, I was wondering whether dropping a couple of miles off the end of the LSR at the end of each month really made that much difference (as per the training plan). I'm fairly lucky in that barring injury (touch wood) I'm usually able to get my runs in each week without too much rearranging

    I had pencilled in a couple of easier runs either side of the Wilmslow Half, so other than that I may stick to building on the mileage increases/base that I've got

  • SlokeyJoe wrote (see)
    5 adding up to 100 is a common rule of thumb, however.... everyone is different and some folks don't need that much long running (if they already have a big aerobic base), some breakdown with injury trying to slavishly follow a guideline and others need more than that! Trick is to listen to your body and do what you can. Experiment of one and all that...

    Thanks.  I don't have a big aerobic base though.  I have just been following a strict 16 week training plan off the back of my general year round stuff which was runs up to 14/15 miles.  I don't think the plan ever gets up to 5 consequtive long runs of the cumulative magnitude.

    Hey ho.  I'll keep at it, see what time it pegs me and re-adjust the approach for the next one based on what it quirts out for me.

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