Manchester Marathon 2013

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  • SB-  1.28 is a cracking time, well done, the calculator is about right  if you have run plenty of marathons.

    You have to take into account how many long runs  you have done? For your endurance.

    I did my first sub 3 off a 1.26 half marathon but realistically as close to 1.20 as possible would be better

    Ran my longest training run on Saturday morning, 24 miles, no more of them planned in

    Got the Grindlford Gallop in 2 weeks time so that will give me a good idea where I am fitness wise, 21 mile trail race, highly recommended.

     

  • jonah8 wrote (see)

    SB-  1.28 is a cracking time, well done, the calculator is about right  if you have run plenty of marathons.

    You have to take into account how many long runs  you have done? For your endurance.

    I did my first sub 3 off a 1.26 half marathon but realistically as close to 1.20 as possible would be better

    Ran my longest training run on Saturday morning, 24 miles, no more of them planned in

    Got the Grindlford Gallop in 2 weeks time so that will give me a good idea where I am fitness wise, 21 mile trail race, highly recommended.

     

    Good luck with the trail run Jonah, sounds fun image  24 miles is a monster training run though!

    I think you're right and in reality, I guess I probably know that I won't be capable of going sub 3 yet but it's just when you start to think about finishing maybe 6 or 7 minutes outside of it, you'd possibly kick yourself for not going for it.  More realistically, I think I should still be aiming for 3.10-3.20 but I am kind of guessing here.

    Jedwards - well done sir!  How did that feel on the pins?

  • SB, those 6 or 7 minutes open you up to a world of pain if you are not ready for them! A good target for you would be to go out with the 3:15 pace group. If you are feeling great by 20 miles then you can always push on a bit and get close to 3:10 which would be a great first marathon time. The calculators are fine if you have a big endurance base and lots of campaigns behind you but it is a big step up from a half to a full.
  • Good running SB, it's a tricky but good dilema to be in. For what it's worth, I think you should err on the side of caution with it being your first marathon. Finish your first in a decent time then go for it in an autumn race ?

    20.5 miles for me over the weekend. Ran through Chatsworth park, into the Haddon estate and picked up the Monsall trail. A deliberately slow run plus I was testing out gels for the first time which went well. Some of the off road trails were trecherously boggy or frozen so had to be careful. I ended up on my feet for 3:38 which was good preperation for Manchester.

    Jonah - you will have to let me know how you get on at Grindleford. I entered it but then changed my plan to run the South Yorkshire HM instead

  • Cheers chaps.  Concensus seems to be to just post a decent time and see how I feel and how it goes.  I'd be happy with that and to be honest, when I signed up for this, I had it in mind that i'd be chuffed with anything under 3.30.

    Carter - long run as well.  How did you feel after?

     

  • Sonds like some good distances put in all round over the last few days

    I'm taking a half day tomorrow afternoon to do my 18 miler for the week rather than trying to fit it in before work. Hardest thing will be fuelling up, to lunch or not to lunch that is the question?

    When I go out in the morning, I've had a good meal the night before, have 200mls or so of sports drink just before I go out for anything over 90 mins and off I go. Don't really like eating too close to running so may have a snack mid-morning, rely on the jelly babies to get me round and then have something else when I get in

    It's another psychological milestone for me, a distance I've not run before so in a strange way I'm looking forward to it.

    Got a facebook message to say an old school friend had completed the Tokyo marathon over the weekend which has given me a fresh impetus

    My route tomorrow will take in large sections of the Sale, Timperley and Altrincham parts of the marathon route

    I guess my other question would be around pace, I tend to listen to my body rather than clock watching so have been doing my LSR anywhere between 9 and 9.5 minute miles (which some might say is too fast based on other posts I've read?). Based on the current times, I'm not that far off a 4 hour marathon but when I signed up the aims were finishing and possible getting under 4:30 so not sure whether to just keep doing the same and see what happens on the day

  • Well the Tunbridge Wells Half on Sunday has finally brought to a head my ITB issue - the 1 1/2 mile 105 metre incline sorted that out - Physio tonight to have an ITB strip already feeling the pain that will be. If I don't get it done now my knee will not allow me to put the miles in to get up to speed for the Marathon.

  • BP, just grin and bear it (and have some ibuprofen beforehand)!  An ITB strip is very painful (we'll probably hear your screams in Manchester) but it is SO worth it.  When you can bear to move again, do loads of glute strengthening exercises and stretches for the IT band, and don't be tempted to get back to high mileages too quickly.  My ITB went about four weeks before my first marathon, and although  I did complete the race, I hobbled from mile 5 onwards as it went again.  With hindsight I was so anxious about missing the training I tried to do too much too soon and neglected the exercises and stretches.

    On a positive note (for me at least) I did 11 miles on Saturday and 18.5 yesterday and didn't have any ITB twinges at all - that's the furthest I've ever run without an ITB problem, so there is light at the end of the tunnel!

  • Carterusm. Sounds like you ran some of it over the weekend



    I've ran it a few times I got away with running it in road shoes last year but sounds like it will be trail shoes this year.
  • ITB strip done and yes just a bit painful. Hopefully that will help the knee issue
  • SB, I just ran a HM PB of 1:28:15 and I'd be lying if I said sub 3 hours wasn't winking at me a bit but I think 3:05 - 3:10 is more realistic. I'd prefer to get 3:05 then attempt 3:00 and end up with 3:20 because the wheels fell off over the last 10K.

    For what its worth I ran 3:16 at Manchester last year off a 1:35 HM so I'll be hoping to clearly beat that time.

  • Cheers Gaz.  Obviously the difference being between you and I there then is that you already have a base for the longer distance.

    This thread has helped with the clarity I was after.  Just a good 3x finish will suffice and then push on later in the year for the sub 3 whilst eyeing up a sub 1.25 half in the lead up,

  • Strangely Brown wrote (see)

    Carter - long run as well.  How did you feel after?

     

    SB - I didnt feel too bad really. I felt good enough to go out on Sunday and run 11 miles with 6 @ MP. I think the gels helped, have you started with them yet ?

    jonah8 wrote (see)

    Carterusm. Sounds like you ran some of it over the weekend



    Jonah - I'm not sure if I did or not, this is the route I ran.

    http://app.strava.com/activities/41982809

  • Carterusm- Yes that's some of the route, from Grindleford you head out towards Eyam, then eventually pick up the Monsall trail, Chatsworth hall, Baslow then back to Grindleford.

    Homemade soup and cakes at the finish.image

    8 mile run tonight followed by 15 tomorrow.

  • I decided to ask organisers yesterday what isotonic drink would be used for Marathon this year and below is the response

     

    'I can confirm that the brand of product that we will be using is Isoconiq. This is a new product and we are waiting for full details from the manufacturer so that the information can be put onto the website.

    'The product is issued in a Tetrapak so you will be able to travel with it around the course.

     

    I hope that this update is of use. As and when we receive the manufacturer’s details they will be posted onto the website.'

    It would seem that nothing has changed from last year and their profits are being put ahead of the runners. To ask runners to use a new product where they cannot get time in training to get used to it and the effects it may have on them is ludicrous. I have googled the product and come up with no results so who knows where we are going to be able to buy it from to try it - my thoughts are we are not and we are just going to have to trust it on the day. I think we may have alot of upset stomachs after the race.

  • carterusm wrote (see)
    Strangely Brown wrote (see)

    SB - I didnt feel too bad really. I felt good enough to go out on Sunday and run 11 miles with 6 @ MP. I think the gels helped, have you started with them yet ?

    Well, I have tried out jelly babies and decided that they are too sweet and just didn't enjoy eating them.  I have ordered a selection pack of gels from Amazon which should arrive in time for my 20 miler on Sunday.  I will give a few different brands out over the next month or so and then decide which I prefer.  How are you getting on with them?

    Bearsted Plodder wrote (see)

    I decided to ask organisers yesterday what isotonic drink would be used for Marathon this year and below is the response

     

    'I can confirm that the brand of product that we will be using is Isoconiq. This is a new product and we are waiting for full details from the manufacturer so that the information can be put onto the website.

    'The product is issued in a Tetrapak so you will be able to travel with it around the course.

     

    I hope that this update is of use. As and when we receive the manufacturer’s details they will be posted onto the website.'

    It would seem that nothing has changed from last year and their profits are being put ahead of the runners. To ask runners to use a new product where they cannot get time in training to get used to it and the effects it may have on them is ludicrous. I have googled the product and come up with no results so who knows where we are going to be able to buy it from to try it - my thoughts are we are not and we are just going to have to trust it on the day. I think we may have alot of upset stomachs after the race.

    As above, would you not be better off with gels and water?  I don't really know what difference at makes but at least you'll know you'll get on with the gel if you've road tested it before.

  • Hi guys, just found this link



    http://www.iconiqdrinks.com/homeiconiqdrinks.html



    Could be what we're after.
  • Reality check for me yesterday. 18 miler which just felt wrong in every way, felt stiff and tired from the outset and the last 2-3 miles were really hard work. It's been a long time since I've felt like jacking it in part way round a run

    Not sure whether it was general tiredness, running at a different time of day, not fuelling properly beforehand, going off too fast at the start. Could be any number of things but I did not enjoy the run at all and it made me wind back some of the rash marathon promises I've been making myself (Mental Note just concentrate on finishing the race , a good time would be a bonus)

    I think I might also start with the gels. The drinking is going fine during runs but as SB said, I've not got a sweet tooth and the Jelly Babies do get a bit sickly after a while so they didn't give me as much of a pick me up yesterday

    On the positive side I got round, put the miles in the bank and am not feeling too stiff today (tried a cold bath on getting home for the first time post-run) and will do the same LSR next week knowing that I can finish it

    Supposed to be out tonite for a maintenance run to fit round Mrs RR working away tomorrow but we'll see, thighs are still slightly stiff and a run might do more harm than good

  • Some times we just have off days Robin. Last week I ran 20 miles at 7:30 pace very comfortably, today I ran 14 miles and struggled to stay 8:00 pace. A good taper before the big day and everything will be fine.
  • RR - Don't fret about it mate, we all have bad runs sometimes, even the pros.  Stay positive and you were right in what you said, it's another run banked.  Nothing more, nothing less.  On to the next, don't take any bad thoughts with you, they won't help.

    Re the Jelly Babies, I too do not have a sweet tooth and struggled with them like you.  These are the gels I ordered:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/High-Race-Faster-Marathon-Running/dp/B003ZUAKU2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1361976027&sr=8-5

     

    The pack arrived an hour ago.  It's choc full of stuff, amazing vlaue really.  I had to try a gel out for taste.  Had a citrus one and it was fine.  Not tatsy but not horrible.  Certainly not sweet.

    Now, I would hate to seem crude about this but I must ask a question here.  Has anyone else experienced a quite alarming upsurge in the farting department after using these?  I've done nothing but blow off for the last hour and can only add that it's a flipping good thing I work from home.

  • While on the subject of gels I have a question for eveyone..... How do you carry the gels during the run? I have a belt that i run with that carries a bottle and has a small pocket to cary about three gels max, obviously not enough for a full marathon. Dont really fancy having sachets of gels slopping around in my pockets during the run. Is it a case of a bigger belt?

     

  • You can buy a "Gel Belt" but not sure I fancy that really.

    If you have properly card loaded, would 3 gels not be enough?

  • Bearsted Plodder wrote (see)

    'The product is issued in a Tetrapak

    I think we may have alot of upset stomachs after the race.

    This is a very useful post, thanks BP.   I had a flash of thousands of people trying to open on of those tetrapak cartons whilst running and throwing everything on the floor.... And then I visited the website cybarev posted.  Makes a bit more sense.  I agree that being the test dummies for this company isn't great and might cause some issues, none least those suffered by Strangely Brown (relevant name, indeed).

    I got back from Seville and the weakther this Sunday was the marathon ideal.  Cold start, warming up to 14-15 degrees, no noticable wind, no rain.  The course was super-flat (Europes flattest, allegedly) which helped me hugely to trim my pb to 2.53.15 and I had a great few days out there.

    SB, My first few marathons were all about 3.15 when I had reduced my half pb to 1.23.56; this was a lot easier to reduce that then my marathon time.  I would echo others and try and aim for a sub 3.10 or sub 3.15 if you feel that you've not got the volume in, come mid-April.

    On the subject of belts, this is the one I use:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Sport-SIS-Marathon-Belt/dp/B0013G4O6Q/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1361986802&sr=1-1-catcorr

    It didn't cost the earth and I use the SiS gels so thought they'd fit well.  It holds 8 but I use 4.  I only put pins and paper in the bag.  I did manage to lose one somewhere in Abingdon last year though...

  • hi everyone

     

    Sounds like we are all panicking on drinks and gels etc!  For what it's worth, I think we can over think these things.  I used to be neurotic about it, and really panicked if i was doing a race abroad and couldn't be sure of obtaining my favoured brand (and obviously you can't take liquids on planes!)image...but you know what?  I have done marathons with and without energy drinks and have been just fine either way.

    To those who are really fussy on their drinks...why not get some of your support crew to have some ready for when you pass them and grab one?  If you arrange to see them at various points on the course that would work..plus, you can always start the race with one carrying it too, so that should be plenty.  You could do the same with gels???

    Re carrying gels.. I am not a fan of belts etc (hate having stuff tied to me), and I have also seen people lose almost all of their gels out of certain belts, so I would be paranoid.  For me, I stuff them down my bra...it works perfectly...though they do get a bit warm!  Appreciate not everyone can, ahem, do that though...so I would again go with the support crew option.   I also think too many gels are uneccessary...I normally take about 6 or 7 but that is excessive...I will be taking 3 or 4 absolute max.

    Hope that helps

    Panda

  • Ally- Well done on your new Pb.

    I use a SIS belt, they sell them in Tesco about £8, better value if you go to the VLM expo they sell them for a tenner with gels and a few recovery bars.

    The "water bombs" they used last year at Manchester were horrendous, at the end I couldn't even hold them never mind drink from them.

    15 miles done earlier with 8 at MP, felt easy hope I'm not peaking too soon Boston is still 7 weeks away.

  • Strangely Brown wrote (see)

    Would welcome any advice here.

    Ran the great North West HM yesterday and suprised myself running 1.28.56.  Manchester is my first full Marathon so am still very unsure what pace to run/time to aim for.  I don't have to bust my balls on my first marathon but I still don't want to finish thinking I could have gone much quicker if i'd pushed.

    Using the McMillan calculator, it suggests I should be aiming for 3.07 for a Marathon.  That's now starting to get tantalisingly close to sub 3 hours.  With 2 months to go, is there a realistic chance that I can improve my performance up to sub 3 hour standard or would I be better advised to just run a good time between 3 and 3.20 and push for sub 3 on the next one?

    Novice questions I know but when Marathon running is concerned, I am a novice.

    Strangley Brown,

    I ran the Preston Guild Marathon in October 2012 in a time of 3:15:48. On Sunday I ran the Great North West HM at Blackpool in 1.28:15 - a PB by 4 minutes (my calf muscles are killing now by the way  - that concrete !). I reckon the Blackpool HM was super fast. I'm hoping for 3.10 - 3.15 at Manchester. 

    Hope this bit of info guides you

  • Thanks PureManic, that helps greatly, as have the other comments.  I have a much better idea of what is and isn't sensible to aim for now image

  • Strangely Brown wrote (see)

    RR - Don't fret about it mate, we all have bad runs sometimes, even the pros.  Stay positive and you were right in what you said, it's another run banked.  Nothing more, nothing less.  On to the next, don't take any bad thoughts with you, they won't help.

    Re the Jelly Babies, I too do not have a sweet tooth and struggled with them like you.  These are the gels I ordered:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/High-Race-Faster-Marathon-Running/dp/B003ZUAKU2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1361976027&sr=8-5

     

    The pack arrived an hour ago.  It's choc full of stuff, amazing vlaue really.  I had to try a gel out for taste.  Had a citrus one and it was fine.  Not tatsy but not horrible.  Certainly not sweet.

    Now, I would hate to seem crude about this but I must ask a question here.  Has anyone else experienced a quite alarming upsurge in the farting department after using these?  I've done nothing but blow off for the last hour and can only add that it's a flipping good thing I work from home.

    Cheers for the support guys, got straight back on the horse and did an 8 miler last night given Mrs RR is working away today, not an amazing time but enjoyed the run and felt better for doing it

    Cheers also for the heads up on the gel pack, going to give one a try and see how we go

    Will report discretely on any wind related side effects image

  • Please do.  I'd be interested to know if this brand are especially good at producing wind or whether this is a general issue

    Good on you for getting on with it and putting the bad run behind you.  It's all just miles gained, right?

    12m GA run today and I too felt somewhat leggy on it.  I think I need another rest day to fully recover after the HM.  Looking forward to chalking up the momentus 20 mile mark on Sunday image

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