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MBNA Chester Marathon 2013
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Hi Mark
Thanks. I should be looking at about 17-18 miles this week then. Wow, that sounds kinda scary low. But I'll try to rein back.
Tim
Hi Tim!
I suppose these things are just general schools of thought, you know yourself better than anyone but we are probably at the stage now where we can gain very little by training.
The hard work is done now, the biggest challenge is not to overtrain and (in my case not over eat!)
Good work everyone, you've put my training to shame! I'm feeling undertrained for this, though this year's training has gone generally well (new HM PB last weekend in the GNR by 6 minutes, 1:38.53, 3 min off my 5K PB 3 weeks ago) - but I've been really poor on the long runs - P&D training lasted 6 weeks or so then tailed off.
5 longest runs add up to 97 miles, but all but 2 of those were in July
. 17.5 yesterday in 3:16, walked the last few miles with tight muscles.
4:18 to beat last years time in Chester... still fancy a 4:00 though, but maybe its a bit out of reach. This marathon training lark is not to be taken lightly!
Tim - Maybe do low mileage but do one fast session...so for your 5 miles, 5 miles, 10 miles, 4 miles you could run half of your 10mi run at mp...or maybe hmp..?
Just a thought.
17mi this morning for me. Was a bit warmer than have been used to so was a bit hydrated, and the silly amount of beer consumed yesterday didn't help either.
Daeve - better to be undertrained than over trained. Sounds like you got your endurance sorted earlier in training, and have been sorting your speed out for latter part of training, which is what you need to do I think. So...go for sub 4 I reckon! There will be a 4.00 pacer to follow too...simple!
Well... after a disastrously low ten miles last week, I've made up for it this week.... when some will tell me I should have been easing back.
In fact, I did 56 miles... 10 miles further than my record week !
Mind you, that sort of misrepresents it, as I was a day late with my long run last week, which brought it into this week. And I got 20 miles in today. Call me foolish!
NOW I can start tapering.
Cheers 15West - I really want to go for sub 4, Training plan more luck than judg..... er... I mean, yeah - sorted out endurance early and then concentrated on speed - yeah
It's this taper period, too late to make any changes to fitness, but it feels like you should try!
Always good to get one 20 under your belt. I've done a couple but missed a lot of training between injury and holiday (too hot to run!). Looking forward to it though - now I know I can do it, I'm just going to relax and enjoy it. Worry about time for the next one
Has anyone ran with the pacers at Chester before? I'm aiming for just under 3 hours so I can't decide whether to run with the pacer or not.
Everyone tells me the first half is quicker at Chester so I don't know whether to do my own thing and try to put a bit of time in the bank in the first half???
Haven't ran with a pacer at chester, but did run one with one at manchester last year and really worked for me. Just had to concentrate on keeping with the pacer, and not have to worry about splits etc. Also...means you are always running with a bunch of other runners instead of isolated which can help.
It does sound good, I might start with the pacer and see how it goes. Just wanna leave a little bit of a buffer for later in the race.
Hi Mark. I'm one of the sub-3 pacers at Chester and can offer you these thoughts:
Chester hasn't had pacers before so the answer to the first part is no!
I'd generally say listening to your own body and running your own race is the best strategy. Most mortals fade a little in the second half of any marathon so a small positive split is to be expected. But not too much! I've run every Chester marathon so far and you'd struggle to find a much flatter marathon - certainly the net elevation gain/drop is really not much different for the first and second halves - it's just that small inclines can sometime appear like mountains on tired legs!
For Chester, I'd say 1:29/1:31 would be pretty optimal and will be aiming to pace pretty close to that.
Despite arguing against running at a predestined pace, there can be great value in running with a pacing group. Here are a few reasons: first, it will stop you going off like a rocket in the first half - easy to throw in a 6.30 minute mile during the first uphill mile because your legs feel fresh, but not necessarily the sensible start! Secondly, it's mentally easier to follow the guy in front without having to concentrate on maintaining pace. Particularly in the second half of a marathon it's easy to let the pace slip by 10-15 seconds per mile without even realising it. Thirdly, running with a group on breezy days shares the workload against headwinds.
One thing is for sure, whether you run alone or run with others, no-one will do the running for you! But if the pacers can help in some small way, then great!
Or what 15West said
Njord, thanks for the reply. Brilliant!
I think ill join up with your group then, I ran 3.04 in London and paced the first 20 miles fine but I just didn't have the legs to hold on.
i think you're right about running in a group giving a bit of shelter from the weather too, I didn't think of that.
Also, it's reassuring hearing you say the course is flat because I was expecting lots of hills.
I'll look out for you on the day.
Cheers.
Great post Njord, thanks. Now I'll ask you a difficult question.
I really feel that, if things go to plan, I'll be finishing somewhere between 3:50 and 3:55 . So, when thinking about pacers (of which I have no experience)...
Is it better for me to start with the 4hr pacer and try to edge ahead. Or go with the 3.45 pacer and let it slide a bit in the second half, assuming it gets a bit hot for me. Or run my own race.
The easy answer might be to start conservatively... but that might rob me of an opportunity to break 3:50 if things go really well (I'm a bit scarred from being slightly too conservative in my only other marathon)
What would you (or anyone else) say?
Cheers
Start with the 3.45 pacer...and stay with him/her!
Karate tonight, hopefully 5k in a park tomorrow with a group from work otherwise boring pavement running when I get home.
People keep asking me what time I want to do and what I've done in training, I feel like I've committed to trying for 4:45ish now, we shall see...
Runny Knows - Any of those options sounds like a decent plan to me. I would keep all three open for now and decide on the day.
Generally though, I prefer to start conservatively - certainly for the first couple of miles while my legs loosen up and my breathing settles down - and then find a nice 'comfortably hard' pace until halfway, steadily picking up the effort from 13-20 (just to maintain the pace) and then digging deep in the last 10K. Mentally and physically, that's how 'even-paced' marathon running usually feels to me - never easy, and downright tough in the last 40 minutes. But we're all different. Many find that their marathon pace during the first half feels unbelievably slow. Ryan Hall, the fastest-ever American marathoner (2.04 at Boston in 2011), was asked what his best tip would be for marathon runners. He said: "First half, fall asleep.". If marathon pace feels like this to you, then great! Avoid the temptation to put time in the bank, and just crank out those easy early miles, saving your physical and mental energy for later when you will most definitely need them!
I've certainly always found it better to be picking off runners in the second half of a race - it gives you a short-term objective to stop you thinking about how far away the actual finish is. If the pace starts sliding too soon after halfway, the second half can be challenging to say the least!
This morning I've started with a cold and feel yuk. Made worse by having missed 2-3 hrs sleep by comforting my 1yr old... from whom I've caught the blooming cold!
I suppose that, if there's a good time to catch one, it's now. Essentially, I completed the important part of my training programme yesterday, so should have my fitness in the bank - and even if this is a bad cold, I should be ok in a week.
Thanks for that advice Njord. I do quite like 15West's though
Like you say... I'll decide on the day. If feeling good, maybe let the 3.45 pacer tootle on, but try to keep him/her within sight for as long as possible.
did Stainland trail 10k what a killer very tough got 57 mins
Morning all.
Runny Knows - some sensible advice from Njord there...but if you're going for 3.50 may aswell go for 3.45 I reckon. Aim high. If you blow up and all goes wrong you can blame me. Now, plenty of vitc and zinc and rest to get rid of that cold, and better to get it this week than next.
Griffo - go easy on that heel.
Day off for me today.
NJORD Mark1981 I will be running with you at Chester, My plan was to hammer out a sub 2:50 but training has not gone well. I ran Manchester and stayed with pacer through to 20 miles after which I ran on to finish in just under 2:56 for my 1st sub 3. and can honestly say it was one of the easiest races I have run as all I had to do was follow pacer no chasing down people, infact in first mile we were passed by all sorts of fancy dress animals etc.
So my recommendation is let the pacer take the strain and then if you are feeling good later on then pick the pace up.
Njord -pacer @ Manchester carried all sorts of goodies for us to eat and drink along the way , You will be doing the same I hope
Dave Trawden AC
I think that me and the wife (Catherine) will be joining the sub 3 group too. We'll be in blue and yellow vests running for Bolton. Looking forwards to seeing /meeting you all there!
Barlick, Shaun - brilliant. See you on race day
I hadn't planned on carry much with me beyond the pacing lollipop for a mile or so, and the TomTom GPS watch which the pacers get to borrow for the day (one each hopefully). I guess I could carry a small fanny pack loaded with a few tubes of Spangles and Parma Violets, but I'm not sure I'd want to feed anyone with anything that's been bouncy around on my sweaty fanny.
On the plus side, there will be plentiful supplies of energy drinks and energy gels available on the course (Lucozade Sport Elite Orange Isotonic and Lucozade Sport Elite Citrus Gels):
#1 (3.2 miles) - Water
#2 (6.1 miles) - Water + Isotonic
#3 (9.3 miles) - Water + Gel
#4 (12.1 miles) - Water + Isotonic
#5 (14.9 miles) - Water + Gel
#6 (17.8 miles) - Water + Isotonic
#7 (20.1 miles) - Water + Gel
#8 (22.1 miles) - Water + Isotonic
#9 (24.1 miles) - Water + Gel
Just thought i'd say hello.....
As hubby (Shaun) says above we'll probably be joining the sub-3 hour pacing group and Njord
.
Barlick (Dave) were you the Trawden runner who I tried to catch at Blackpool Summer 10k?
Happy tapering all
Barlick and Shaun, hello, sounds like there might be a little group of us running together. See u on the start line!
Im looking forward to it, especially now Njord had promised to hand out sweets
My plan (which may well change) is still to try and stay with the 3:45 pacers until maybe half-way, then dramatically ease down through the gears in the second half.
Simply, with each of my last few weeks' long runs, I've done a tough first 13.1 miles, then eased down for whatever remained. So, I really know no other way.
Tim of MK - enough of this slow down business. What you need to do is dig deep, grit those teeth, and stick with that pacer.
Ok?
OK?
ok.
Catherine i had forgotten about that race but yes that was me . You had best get practicing that finishing dip if you don't want beating again
.
Sort of looking forward to this now we have sherpa to carry extra food and clothes