Tubs or Tubeless tyre questions

I have two questions, I have tubs or tubeless tyres on my bike.

Am I right in thinking

there's no such thing as either tubeless tyre for use on a turbo

and

there's no such thing as a winter tub less tyre?

 

If I'm right life just got very simple indeed. So far I'm liking tubeless, I can change one pretty easily and no punctures .... yet!

Comments

  • Tubs arent the same as tubeless tyres.

     

    Do you glue your tyres on ? If so then they're tubs.

    If not - they're tubeless. 

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    Unless you're Challenge, who make "open tubulars" just to confuse people!  image

    (Highly recommended, BTW, if you want a good quality gum wall clincher.)

  • tubs are complete sealed tubes that you glue to rims, tubeless are open tyres like standard clinchers but don't use inner tubes

    and Tufo make clincher tubs just like the Challenge ones

  • What is a clincher tub or open tubular ?  Just a clincher made out of the same carcass as they make their tubs ?  

    I've been using some Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX clinchers which are like that - very  nice - they say  max pressure something like 170psi on them though which clearly they aren't - I'm assuming that refers to the ones that have been sewn up as tubs.   

    As an aside people often talk about max pressure for their tyres but plenty of rims aren't rated that high - some carbon rims only to about 120psi.   

  • OK I glue them (well tape) so tubs .

    So these http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cycle/road-race-tubular-tyres/

     

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    popsider wrote (see)

    What is a clincher tub or open tubular ?  Just a clincher made out of the same carcass as they make their tubs ?  

     

    Yeah, basically. Same manufacturing process but not sewn up.  I wasn't aware of them till I started hunting for something nice to put on my steel frame pimp-up job.

    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7053/6809178376_0ebe5febbb_z.jpg

     

  • Tufo have been selling tub clinchers for some years - might get around to trying a pair sometime just to see what they're like.

    I guess the big issue is still the same as tubs if you puncture - you need to be carrying a spare one but at least no faffing with glue

    if (when?) they really crack tubeless using latex for road use as they have for MTB (the fan base is growing rapidly) then that will be the best compromise as you can run a lighter weight wheel (overall) but in case of major puncture, slap an inner tube in.   on an MTB, tubeless works well and you do notice the lower rotation weight.

  • So now I have been reminded I still have a LOT to learn back to my original question

    Am I right in thinking

    there's no such thing as either tub tyre for use on a turbo

    and

    there's no such thing as a winter tub tyre?

  • I've only heard of clincher turbo tyres - fine if you have a turbo wheel with a clincher rim, not so fine if you only have tub wheels.   you can of course turbo on your tub tyre but don't know how well it will stand up.

    Challenge do a gravel tub - http://www.challengetech.it/products/road/eroica-027/en - which may be better for winter??  

    it might be worth you investing in some new clincher wheels for all year/training use and keep the tub wheels for racing.  that way you will have a much wider choice of tyres available including those like Gatorskins which is the choice of many for winter use as it is more puncture proof than many others.

  • I blummin hate tubs.  Possibly cos I flatted £120 worth in one shortish training ride. 

    And these weren't repairable. 

    By contrast - I can't tell you the last time i had a p******e on normal tyres. 

    I'd try the tub on the turbo and see how it goes - for gods sake dont do a 4 hour session though.  If its wearing too much just buy a cheap wheel and put a turbo tyre on it for your workouts ?

    I'd go for normal tyres in winter anyway - Winter tends to be wetter and colder - if you flat and it is peeing down - then you sometimes find that the tub doesnt stick. Or that was my last experience of them one very wet christmas eve... Its no fun rolling a tub.  

    And I'd go with thicker tyres for winter just cos I value keeping moving far more than having lighter tyres. 

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    Ultra cougie wrote (see)

     

    And these weren't repairable. 

     

    Showing my ignorance here... really?!  So any time you puncture it's end of tyre??  As a youngster back in the 80s image I was running tubs on my racing bike as it seemed to be the thing to do, but it properly pissed me off having to deal with punctures - all that sewing, tub glue over your jeans... so moved on to clinchers when someone drove into the back of my Mavic GP4!

    I'm considering getting a TT bike some time in the new year and thought it would be worth getting carbon rims/tubs as I'd accept the puncture risk/performance trade-off.  But how do you know if tubs are repairable or not?  Are most tubs repairable or do people accept them as being an expensive luxury??

  • I tried to repair tubs a couple of times when I first started - never really worked - think I've still got the vittoria tubular repair kit somewhere.   

  • You can repair most tubs - if you're nifty with scissors and a needle  - basically you need to unpick the base, cut the stitching, repair the tub like you would an innertube, and the reverse the procedure.  It helps if you're a surgeon. 

    BUT i had the tub version of my fave COnti GP4000s.

    I sent them off to the tub man to repair (cos i have all the patience and dexterity of a steroid fuelled bull elephant) and he sent me a fantastically detailed explanation of why these couldnt be repaired complete with actual samples and cross sections of tubs that could.   It was quite a work of art. 

     

    I think I've just been unlucky really  - but nowadays normal tyres are so good and so reliable - that I really cant see much point in tubs. I think even the World TT champ Tony Martin rides normal tyres to win.  So if its good enough for him ?

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    Ultra cougie wrote (see)

     I think even the World TT champ Tony Martin rides normal tyres to win.  So if its good enough for him ?

     

    Good point Cougie!  I might have to chat with Planet X about how flexible they are on their bike-build offers.  image

  • They do some nice CF normal wheels too.  Thats what I've got on my PX. Think I'll have to put it away for the winter soon though. Too purdy to get all cacked up. 

  • just buy clinchers...it's MUCH easier and if you choose the right tyre/inner tube you can get a very low race rolling resistance and aero-ness (which are what you want right?)

    And do you really want to have super high PSIs on an even vaguely bumpy road? on a track yes but on a road?  

    once you go down the clincer route then the turbo question becomes superflouous (spelt wrong sorry)

     

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭
    the5k runner wrote (see)

     

    And do you really want to have super high PSIs on an even vaguely bumpy road? on a track yes but on a road?  

     

     


    No you're definitely right there.  My track bike came with tubs, happy enough with that as it'll never see a road and I can't remember the last time I heard of anyone puncturing at Herne Hill.

  • There are several reasons you don't see tubular tyres specifically for turbo use, but the most simple is that they're just not suited to the application. They will last as long as a clincher, yeah. But most people don't have a seperate wheel just for their turbo - they swap a turbo tyre onto their rim. Tub fanboys aside (I have race tubs myself and I'm not exactly skilled with them) - the fact is that you don't want to be gluing and ripping off tyres to go between turbo and outdoors.

    Can you buy a cheap clincher rim? It would probably be the chepaer option? If you're running carbon tubs, you still wouldn't need to swap your brakes out as you shouldn't be using them!

  • "But most people don't have a seperate wheel just for their turbo"

    some of us do.....image

  • Ultra cougie wrote (see)

    I think I've just been unlucky really  - but nowadays normal tyres are so good and so reliable - that I really cant see much point in tubs. I think even the World TT champ Tony Martin rides normal tyres to win.  So if its good enough for him ?

    Yep. Conti clinchers for 2011 Worlds, then the same for the German National TT champs. This year he switched to Specialized but stayed on clinchers.

    The argument at the pro level isn't about practicalilty per se, as they swap the wheel if there's a problem during the race, and the rider doesn't have to change a tyre all day. With top clinchers now equalling the rolling resistance of tubs, the reason they're beginning to see an edge is flexibility - if Martin turns up on the day of a race and decides that he'd rather ride a 23, the mechanic can swap it out before he races, rather than rely on having many sets of wheels to give the same options. You're not to change your mind if you only have one wheelset and must freshly glue some different tubbies on...

  • I don't know that you could say clinchers have the edge for the pros - the vast majority still ride tubs and for TTs I'd have thought more.

    The main reason for us (not pros) to ride tubulars is that carbon clincher rims are inherently weaker than tubular rims - if you are paying a grand plus for a set of wheels it's nice if they don't crack when you hit a pot hole or puncture and if they are race day wheels a puncture probably means game over anyway. 

    In cyclocross of course you can run lower pressures with a tubular than a clincher.   

    I know that the tests show the best clinchers have rolling resistance as low or lower than a tubular too but lots of people will still claim a tub rolls or corners that little bit better - personally I'm not convinced I could tell one way or the other.   

  • Old frame (early 80's) so I can't find new wheels with thin enough spindles to fit the older narrower forks.

    I'm suer they must be out there but I have no idea how to meause for what I need or the right terminology to search for.

    There's no labels on the current wheels to guide me either.

    I like my tubs not feeling enclined to change yet, but that may change with winter rides. Current tubs were £15 each so not expensive really.

    FB thanksf or the link I might invest in those.

  • AB - have you spoken to a decent LBS about this??  

    sounds like it's a good time to get a new bike......image

  • Ha discovery I have Mavic GP4 rims which you can still buy. Hmm now what are the spindles. This is a complete voyage of discovery !

    If possible I really want to modernise the ancient one and keep her. The frame is just back from respray.

    Before

    /members/images/712401/Gallery/IMG_0281_(640x480).jpg


    After 

    /members/images/712401/Gallery/IMG_0293_(640x480).jpg

    Mates rates so colour choice was limited, I'm very pleased with the results.

     

  • Narrower forks ? Cant say i've noticed ? Forks are pretty bendy though ? Has hub width changed at all ?

    I used to have Mavic GP4's for my tubs back in the day. Very decent rim. 

     

    What tubing is that ?

     

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    Narrower forks??  You don't possibly mean narrower spacing on the rear stays do you?  If the frame's early 80's vintage (6-speed on the back??) it probably has something like 126mm spacing, compared to modern-day standard 130mm, which would affect rear wheel compatibility, but front is probably the same at 100mm.

     

  • if that's a steel frame, you can probably bend the stays and forks to take a wider hub without compromising the frame strength.  bit more difficult with alu as it can be prone to cracking or losing it's strength.   again the LBS should be able to advise.

  • Phil you are right that's exactly it. Full run down as she is.



    Front chain set 42/52

    Chromo steel doubled butted frame & forks 531

    Shimano rear de raileur

    Dura ace front de railuer

    Campagnolo headset and skewers.

    Mavic rims and hubs

    Double butted spokes

    Sun tour ultra block cassette 13/26 over 6 rings.



    She's now all back together and looking very smart.
  • I was thinking Ali meant the wheels wouldn't fit in the dropouts rather than the spacing being wrong - but looks like they mean the spacing.  

    Best thing is look out for a cycle jumble and pick up a set of used wheels - any 5,6,7 speed should fit shouldn't they ? - wider spacing came in with 8 speed - not sure about the mech working with them though if it's indexed so might be best to stick to the same as it has already.   Might be worth checking if you have 700c or 27 inch wheels too as there used to be a difference in wheel diameter - think the UK had a different standard to most of the continent.   

  • She's definitely 700c wheels so that makes life easier. Friction breaks which I'm happy with . I think we just need peddles, saddle and stem and she'll be good to go. Got to think of a name for her now.
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