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Mr P - gulp! Exciting stuff - get tapering sir!
Clive - 20 miles in 2:45 on a dodgy heel is amazing. With 3 weeks of winding down the heel should surely have a chance to calm down. Definitely go for it, it's a no brainer!
I have never really got on with gels. In April I tried jelly babies for the first time and strangely enough it's the first marathon where I haven't had nausea for the last 6 miles. I took two gels as well though as they are better at slow release and have some other useful stuff in them as well.
I use Hammer Nutrition gels. The espresso ones taste great and have some caffeine in them too.
Thanks for the reassurance. Calf is tightening again tonight so I'm trying to stretch regularly. I plan to do 10 miles tomorrow. From that I'll find out if the stretching is required more or less as the mileage increases. Praying it's the latter.
Regarding VLM, seems quite early to be getting the ballot results. The earliest I ever had it was beginning of Oct. You know you get a magazine whether you're in the ballot or not? One says congrats, the other says please sit down, you're not going to like what I have to say
Clive I think it wil be eighteen with 10 or 12 at marathon pace.
Re the gels, according to the race info there will be Lucozade Sport Elite drink and gels on the course, I think it is a bit odd, they have caffeine in them, and I bet most people have never even seen them let alone used them. Why not have normal lucozade? I will try and get some tomorrow.
good session Mr P the other day, you've managed to do loads at MP. I have a feeling that I haven't done enough runs at MP so I will be working on that over the next month. Hope your last long run goes well.
jen how far is your ultra? Wedding dress shopping...I'm so jealous! My mum said it was tone of the best experiences in her life.
sorry to hear about your heel Clive but fantastic last long run despite the pain! I use the shot blocks. I true the high 5 ISO drink today whilst at the match and don't think I could run in it.
hi malcs, I got my lack to, I'm number 313, zone 1! So exciting. glad to hear that yoube been able to run further. Hope the 10 miles goes/went well.
hi Angela, my jacket is really thin and is water proof to a certain degree...think I would over get in anything thicker and/or more water proof! How are you set for tomorrow? Good luck, hope it's another well deserved PB!
I nanaged 4 mile recovery on Monday (@9mm), 7 miles on wed (8: 30-8 mm) and 22 yesterday slow (ave 8;41 mm). I had planned to do 10 on wed but I had a blister on the side of my toe after GNR which became to sore by 7 miles and hence why I stopped at 7. Legs otherwise felt great. I found my 22 reasonable-well easier than last time. I'm doing a 10k race tomorrow, can't decide whether to race it or do it at mp as I haven't done many MP miles-what does everyone think? Happy running everyone!
10k- race it! You know you wanna . I'm sure if u put in some MP on ur next long run nd do it for some of the shorter runs, u should be fine come York mara.
thanks for the good luck messages! I thought it would be a DNS, was a bit today- didn't manage to keep anything down until after lunch time, but I've been catch up carbo loading like a champion. I think I'm gonna take a risk and see how long I can hold on at 8:10ish pace. We'll see. Been chatting with Sarah about what pace to go for. My previous pb was at Colchester Half, back in March, at 1:56:07
So, lets see what I can take off that!
I cant keep up with all the races, who is doing what tomorrow?
Me too Mr P!
Sorry Angela, missed what you have planned. Is it a half ? Best of luck with it!
Sarah - cool, I think I'm no. 380 ish. My brother in law is also in zone 1.
Very nice 22. I like that your slow pace is so fast
10 miler ended up as 10.7 today. Needed stretching at a few points but otherwise wasn't bad. Feels like a small step forward. Felt great to get a longer run in but it was painfully slow and quite hard on the legs. My fitness is good but my leg conditioning is pants!
Sorry guys, I crashed n burned. I couldn't hold my split for a pb. Feeling gutted.
I did a bit of crashing and burning too Jen move over and I'll join you. my back was killing me so I stopped at 14 miles and phoned Mrs P for a lift home. Not too downhearted though, i tried out some gels and a new drink and felt ok in myself just really in pain. It came on again yesterday as I was lying on my back, I had a lte night which didn't help so I need to address this over the next two weeks.
that a great race Angela, not surprising you pb'ed really your legs look about five feet long in that photo! Well done, I hope Jackson knows who he was talking to.
Hey Hey Jen, Don't worry about it. All a learning experience. Bank it as a training run, and look forward to your 'A' goal, the marathon.
Mr P. Sorry to hear about your back. Seems everyone is breaking at the moment...Afraid the whole of Angela is not much longer than 5 feet, so my legs alone certainly aren't. Well I pb'd but I didn't manage to keep to the conservative (or so I thought) 8:15 pace, which I should have been capable of. Tempted to find a flat half marathon to test myself out, but, I'm happy to bank it, and look forward to building in some basic training over the autumn/winter before ramping up for Manchester. Been seeing more and more articles about the importance of an 'off-season', so I'm having this week completely off, and then I don't have any races in the diary until next year. I may do a parkrun here and there, but certainly nothing longer any more than once a month.
Malcs, I'm so glad you've managed to get up to 10 miles. I take it that you've made the decision to run York then? Hmm, I wonder if I could get up there to cheer you both on...
Jen - sorry you're feeling disappointed. We've all been there. Hope the cloud has lifted now. Don't dwell on it and start looking forward to SNOD because that is going to be awesome!
Mr P - right call to stop. Not sure I would have been as sensible. I have had the odd bit of back trouble too in the past and trued to run through it. Went to a chiropractor on a free assessment and they told me to stop running....err, how about no!
I got one of those massage things you sit on. Just a cheap one. Whenever I have a bit of pain I dig it out. It's surprisingly good and definitely has a positive effect.
Clive - heel update, any improvement? Are you resting and icing?
Sarah - how did the race go? (you were racing weren't you?)
Angela - well done on the PB! Nice little tustle with the other lady runner - you seem to have these little battles in every race, do you just like picking fights?
I'm not a fan of turnbacks so I feel your pain. Nice shot with Colin. It's not just Tigger that's mixing it with the celebs then!
Thanks. Yes 10 done which was a big relief. However, I think I need to get to the point where I don't need regular stretching during the run before I can make a final call on York.
I will keep training as if I'm going to run it though. On the subject of training, I'm a bit unsure what to do for the long runs. Midweek stuff is fine, it's the long runs I'm in a quandry about.
I have 3 weekends before York. I don't see much point in tapering as I have nothing to taper from. So the question is what runs to do?
I could go 13,16,19/20. Is a 19/20 the week before a bad idea though? Would I lose more than I would gain?
Alternatively I could be creative and instead of 2 weekends split the 25 days to race day into five, 5 day chunks. That way I could have 4 long runs (one every five days) and I could do 13, 16, 19/20, 8/10 say. So my 19/20 would be 10 days before the race with a gently 8-10 miler in between.
Or should I ramp up more sharply? I'm a little reluctant to do this as I think there is more of a risk of relapse.
Incidentally, midweek I'm not going to do any speed work, just base mileage including a regular midweek long run of about 8-10 miles.
Sorry for boring you all with this. Mrs Malcs is sick of me banging on about it. It's got so bad that the local council have her on their at risk register
Would be lovely to see you in York Angela but it's a heck of a way for you to travel. It is a beautiful city though if you fancy a weekend away.
Women's running mag arrived today.... Page 100 for my review with a really tiny picture of me and really big pictures of those in more fancy dress!!
Fantastic stuff Angela! Would you have got a bigger picture if you'd been in fancy dress?
I will look out for it at work Angela.
Malcs I think you're in uncharted waters really, my gut feeling is to build rather than over reach. You havent really got Any recovery time if you push your long runs so I would above all stay at a level where you could go again in 48 hours if that makes sense, and if that means you get no further than 14 or 15 wel so be it, and be prepared to go really slowly on raceday.
Thanks Mr P, that does indeed make sense. I think you're right - better to be undercooked than over do it. Question is whether to go for my compressed week option so I can fit another long run in. I think I'll wait and see how the next one goes first.
Managed 4 miles without any stretching breaks yesterday so that's another step forward. I did need one at the end though as it was getting a bit sore so the champagne is still very much on ice (well more like still in the box in the warehouse)
Got a leg massage today so hopefully that will help.
In other news, I've been in contact with Ady and Shady junior is due next week! Didn't that come up quickly!
I think you ought to remember that you can't really gain in fitness 2 weeks out, so your longets long run should be no later than 2 weeks out. And as Mr P says, if thats only 15, no matter. When I was preparing for NYC marathon that didn't happen, we had a training day with Mike Gratton. He recommended that there was very little physiological benefit to be gained by running longer than 2 hours- for me on a long slow run at the time, that was less than 12 miles. I was dogged by injury at the time, so I never went above 14 before that marathon. I'm kinda glad it was cancelled, as it would have hurt lots to complete it, but I would have done it, and I would have finished it. If that's your only goal, to finish it, then you will do it.
I think fitting in more than a long run in a week is a bad idea- you will not be as fit, and will probably get sick if you don't get injured again. Overtraining fatigue takes a lot longer to recover from than a musle injury
Its ok about the tiny picture- I would rather be a journalist than a model anyway
Wow, Shady having a baby- amazing a whole baby has grown in the time we've been training for our autumn racing!
Love that race report Angela!! And I have trainer envy!! I want purple shoes tooooo!!
Can't belive Mini-Shady is due next week!! That's so exciting!! Eeek!!
Not a lot of running happening this end - managed to pull calf muscle so missed New Forest Marathon (booo!) but will hopefully be ok for Bournemouth ... will see I guess!
p.s. following on from Angela's post above - I did my 2 long mara runs 5 days apart and this combined with a couple of opther things helped to pull my calf. Wouldn't recommend it!
I saw the article today Angela but I didn't get time to read it, I told everyone at work we were great pals and talk to each other every day! I noticed Where's Wally and was it a girl in a Robin costume?
no run tonight, stinking cold, I think I caught it in the barber's on Saturday.
Angela - many thanks, all makes sense. You're so right about over training. I should remember that's what put me in this position in the first place
Wow, 2 hours doesn't seem that long at all for marathon training. What about the idea of time on your feet? Is that compensated for by more frequent running or higher average mileage? Still not quite the same.
Goal is to finish, ideally in under 4 hours. Surely I can do better than I did the Kent Coastal last year. For that I did even less training. I wasn't recovering from injury though.
Yep - you can train for a marathon or grow a baby, just one of those everyday choices we all have to make
RRR - ouch, that's not good. Sorry to hear you're on the bench and a real bummer that you missed New Forest. How is the calf now? It's calf tightness that I've been struggling with but I didn't tear it.
Overtraining did it for me too. Training starts to go well and you begin to feel like you're invincible. You pile on the miles too quickly and suddenly, snap, something goes and you're buggered.
When is Bournmouth?
Mr P - sorry, cross post. I hate colds. Hope it's a short one and you're back up and running soon.
RRR, I was about to lay into u for being colour blind.... Then I realised u were probably talking about my choos, not the trainers... If u are talking about the trainers, then 'area colour blind? They are clearly grey and orange!
im suffering race withdrawal.. 2 days after my last one, and the next one in the diary is in march
glad ur work colleagues nk now about ur famous friend mr p! Will they all come and support me at Mancs marathon?
malcs- I have no idea how he thought 2 hours would be enough. It was essentially a plan for the kinda people who had signed up for a marathon and with 8 weeks to go thought they better start training... But his point was 2 hours was enough to get u the physiological changes u need to help u in the marathon, ie more capillarys in the muscles, more mitochondria etc... But he did wi. The London marathon in 2:09 back in the 1980s, so 2 hour run probably got him pretty far!
Thanks Malcs Puffy junior had one last week and is ok now so fingers crossed.
I don't think they'll be there Angela, they all live a lot further away from Manchester than I do, aprt forom one bloke who actually lives there but I don't think he would come to watch even though he is a runner.
Whoop whoop..so glad that your in to the double numbers Malcs. Think if it was me I would have a 10-14 day taper if possible and try and get up to 18 miles if possible. Last week I raced GNR and then did the 22 miler 5 days later, but slowly so it can be done (long runs close together) although it may be more risky after coming back from injury. I forgot to say, chris did really well he got 1:57 after only doing 1x 6mile run in four weeks leading up to GNR. I also think the timing chip for york marathon is dodgy..not sure I trust it!
Mr P I hope your cold doesnt last long. As long as its not on your chest you should still be able to run. I did GNR and trained all last week with a head cold and luickily all was ok.
Sorry Jen to hear about your training...you will bounce back. Your better off having a bad run today and being ok for your marathon than the other way round. Laws of average says all runs/races wont be easy or go how we want them to.
RRR sorry to hear about your injury but im glad to hear that your back up and running again now.
A huge congratulations angela on a new PB, on meeting Mr Jackson, and getting your work published you must be on cloud 9. Forgot to answer you about the inhaler. I would be tempted to use it pre race as you will be pushing yourself harder and may benefit from a larger lung capacity. Wouldnt use it before a training run if its not needed, but i would try it on a couple of occasions to make sure it doesnt cause any problems.
Friend sent me this - was quite useful and interesting to read about tapering.
Clive, hows the heel?
well i went to race the 10k on sunday after recieving encouragement from Angela but it turned out to be quite a tough 10k so I changed the plan after a mile. It was 7km off road (longish grass) and 3 km on road/stony paths. It was also quite hilly in places and way to warm after the previous cooler weeks. I did the first mile in 6:50mm the 2nd in 7:00mm and then the 3rd in 7:28 mm. Im not sure what pace I did the next miles in but I managed to speed up for the last 3km (when I hit the paths) and managed to finish in 43:09 mins, 5th lady. The First Lady finished in 36 mins and ?? secs.. wow! So my average pace was slower than race pace but faster than MP
I was going to do a reovery run yesterday but chris talked me out of it and I had to prepare some teaching for the medical students tomorrow.
I did my weights today and 8.5 miles with 6 x 1000m @ 6:30mm with 90 sec recovery in the middle. Legs felt really tired so it wasnt the easiest speed training that ive done but i know its due to the 10k on sunday and the 22 on fri. This week I will be doing my 10k on sunday at MP!
Morning all, I'm back up n dusted down! I won't bore you with a full race report, suffice to say I ran the first 6k at my PB pace n felt great, then I just hit a wall. Can't explain it, but I did notice a lot of people walking, and quite a few runners collapsed on the side!! never seen that at a 10k before. It was a very muggy day.
Sorry you crashed n burned too Mr P, but a very sensible decision to stop if in pain. Hope your cold is better soon. Gremlins seem to be getting into everyones training plans at the moment!
Malcs, I wouldnt push a long run. I've been doing a lot of reading as prep to my ultra, and the advice there is to do back to back runs evening/morning making up the long run distance. It seems to have same benefit but cause less muscle damage.
Think I'm going to take the pressure of me for my next half marathon race 6th Oct and run in fancy dress as Tinkerbell, I've just ordered the costume!!!!
Sorry been one of those weeks so far, and trying to 'study' for exam writing course tomorrow and Friday in York (might see Sarah if I go out for a run??)
Jen- glad you have picked yourself up- Any top tips? as think I might need them in next few weeks...
Mr P- not long now. How is the back?
Malcs- I concur with the others- don't push it and go with the 2 week 'taper' as Sarah suggested. I thought Jen's idea sounded good too; might try that myself
Angela- hope you have recovered from the weekend, and getting ready for some wedding planning
Can't believe Ady is about to welcome mini Shady into the world- how time flies... Does anyone have his email- I'd like to wish them luck.
Heel update ... Bit confused about what the underlying pathology is now. Had lowest run mileage last week after GNR (26 miles) as foot so sore, but after managing 20 at 8.09 on Friday it felt less painful at weekend. Went out Monday and Tuesday for short runs, and it is now more generally sore under the heel, especially if I put weight on outer side of my foot? However it is not particularly sore when I walk, and I can now put my foot on the floor when I wake up
It is a mystery. Planning to continue with programme, so tempo intervals tomorrow, and 14miles at weekend with last 6 at MP. I want to run for Macmillan Cancer, but anxious about setting it up in case I don't do it or DNF... Should I just bite the bullet- will anyone sponsor me?
Thanks for the inhaler advice Sarah... I took 1 puff before the half marathon and didn't need it after, whereas on the 10k the week before I needed at least 2 puffs after, so I suppose preventative is better than cure!
Jenf- yes, we've all had many a race like that. With out fail the 3rd quarter of a race, no matter the distance is always the worst for me. I don't fade in a 5k now, but all the other distances find me at a reduced pace during the 3rd quarter before picking up again for the finish. I guess focus on some mental trouble shooting to help you get through that section in other races. Certainly what I'll be working on for my next marathon. For my last I was 3 minutes outside my 'gold' target, and it was purely down to a 'can't be arsed' attitude during miles 17-23ish.
Thanks Clive, I'm on day 4 of no running, as I thought it would be sensible to take a week off, but I'm starting to go mad now, so probably will go out for an easy run this evening.
So, the law of Sod is in full working order. Last week, I decided to enter Manchester marathon when I decided the chances of getting a ballot place in London were slim, and the date of next year's London is rather too close to the anniversary of my dad's death - given how pants I was racing on that day last year for the 1 year anniversary, I didn't want to give myself the pressure with a marathon, but alas, my 'You're In' magazine has arrived today. I planned to defer, in case this happened, but will keep that decision open until the last possible date, in case I get sick and need to use the London place instead of manchester.
However, its it completely crazy to race Manchester, going for a massive pb on the 6th April, and then job around London enjoying the carnival atmosphere on the 13th? (we know the right answer is no, but I want another medal....)
Angela, I don't think its crazy, It would totally take the pressure off on the 13th, and be good for you to 'enjoy' a race and its carnival atmosphere on an emotional date.
Clive, top tip for picking yourself up...have a very short memory!
I like you Jenf... You have exactly the right answer Perhaps I can make it my hen party????