P + D training for VLM 2013



  • NP - 7 x 22, that should cover the endurance part of your training! I saw the podiatrist the other day and he described my weekly mileage as 'insane'...and I'm only on the 55M schedule. Yet when I'm on here I feel like I'm not running enough. Thanks for the scientific explanation of ice baths too.

    Best of luck to those racing today. I've lost track of who that is, but good luck anyway...

    Psyching myself up for the 18/14...it's not going to be pretty.

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    Good luck all racing and taking on the 18/14 today. I plan a steady 13 or 14, which is exactly what I had yesterday watching the rugbyimage. Am on the wagon until the race now. Honest.

    I had an ice bath - only way I could do it was to sit in a very shallow lukewarm bath and top up with cold. Did this just a day or so before I got injured!!

    It is a beautiful spring day over here in N Wales, would have been ideal for the 18/14. Never mind.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Just back from 20 miles with 14 @ MP. Blooming muddy and knackered at the end. Going to try one of these cold baths now and I'd better feel like a new man afterwards!


    Good running 15W

    Good luck on your long runs everyone else

    Just back from 18 with 12 at mp, first 6 @ 7:45 last 12 @ 6:35.  Went slighlty faster than marathon pace and felt well.  Something seemed different on the run, maintaining marathon pace seemed a lot more easier than normal??  I think I am going to try a cold bath also!!

  • Nice sessions 15W and Craig.

    Just back from the 18/14. Feel amazing now because I managed to do it, averaging 6:46 for the 14. Very tough run but it did feel marginally easier than the last MP run. I tried a caffeine gel for the first time (10 miles into the MP section) and feel like I got some benefit from it (and it didn't give me palpitations or anything...)

    Well I guess if everyone else is having an ice bath...

  • Well done Craig, 15W and Al on the mp runs.

    Just back from my run, averaged 6.40 for the 14 miles. I felt pretty tired when I woke up this morning so I didn't feel fantastic on the run but my legs still felt quite strong, I managed to pick up the pace in the last mile so I must have had a bit extra still. Did a few miles either side to finish on 18 miles in about 2hrs 3 mins.

    I feel very confident that I could run at this pace for about 20 miles but after that I don't know!

    Al, how are you feeling about the sub 3 attempt? Are you confident of doing it?
  • Mark - I'm definitely feeling better than a few weeks ago. I'm certainly not "confident" that I'll go sub 3 but I am confident that I'm in a decent position to at least attempt it. I know I'm right on the edge so it's going to be an absolute sufferfest, but that will only make it sweeter if I get there. Your 6.40 average is strong - must be nice to know you have a spare 8 seconds per mile if you need it. 

    This will be my third marathon, 1st was Berlin where I played it safe, had a really strong run (3.20) with negative split but afterwards felt like I was probably in 3.15 shape. 2nd was Barcelona and the goal was sub3.10 for GFA. Only made it by 18 seconds and it was extremely tough, felt like I couldn't have gone any harder. So I'm hoping that in the last year I've found that extra 10 minutes. I'm also prepared for failure, i.e. the goal is sub 3 so I'll pace myself for that and if I blow up then so be it.

    I know what you mean about keeping that pace for 20 miles. Then it's unknown territory...but that's part of the appeal of the marathon.

    Enough about me...where are the race reports??

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    You guys are terrifyingly fast. I did next week's 18 miler so still have the mp run to look forward to next week. Calf felt almost normal, so I'm hoping to be able to just do the VO2 session on Tuesday as scheduled.

    Then had my second cold bath of the campaign. NP, you don't have to put your whole body in it, do you? Because you would not be getting me into cold water above my waist. Thought my feet were going to fall off but did manage to stay in for the amount of time it takes to drink a cup of tea.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Ooh, like the word 'sufferfest', Al. Could also be applied to our new bathing strategy.

  • You lot are mental with the cold baths! I couldn't do it!

    Al, it sounds like you are in a similar position to me with your pb's and training, this marathon definitely feels like its going to be a step into the unknown.

    Nice running Lit, good to hear the calf is better too although you've still got the hard run to come next week!
  • Al great previous marathons times in 2 great marathons i'd love to do.  I'm sure how it pans out you will give it your all. My confidence is growing by the week, the 12 at marathon pace today felt, how can I put it??...comfortable.  6:35 average for 12 after 6 easy has given me a confidence boost. I have Wilmslow next week, not certain how to approach next week as next Sunday I am scheduled a 21 mile, but I have LT 7 on Thursday, I think I will swap LT on Thursday for Sundays half, just not ceratin to do with the 21 miles on Sunday, maybe run the LT swapped on Thursday easy and possibly make the miles up on Sunday or throughout the week, i'm a little uncertain and i'm confusing mysef writing this, must of been the cold bath.

  • Ah fuck it, I am going to have a cold bath too. 

  • Well done everyone on your 18 with 14 at MRP.  Mine is next weekend and I am hoping I have found a number for Wilmslow HM, will do 5 miles beforehand (1 at MRP) and then 13.1 at MRP at the HM. 

    Literatin - how is calf?  

    Mennania - are you feeling any better?

    I am about to go and do my MLR of 12 miles, I had a couple of large wines last night and a takeaway curry.  All I can say is this will not be pretty. 

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭



    HeOw wrote (see)


    Literatin - how is calf?  

    I am about to go and do my MLR of 12 miles, I had a couple of large wines last night and a takeaway curry.  All I can say is this will not be pretty. 

    Um, do serious marathon runners not normally have a couple of glasses of wine every night? Actually, maybe don't answer that. Calf is improving, I think. Could still feel slight stiffness today that made me a bit paranoid for the whole run, but otherwise pretty much as normal. How's your foot?

  • Everyone doing 18 with 14 at marathon pace, but my schedulle is 18 with 12 at marathon pace, i'm on the 12 week schedule and that is on the 18 week schedule, I wonder why that is?

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Dunno, but the first edition only has 17 with 14 at marathon pace. I'd imagine for the 12-week schedule it's because the 18-week people already did 15 with 12 at marathon pace 4 weeks ago. Unless your programme had that too?

  • Just checked through 12 week 55-70, 18 with 12 at mp is the longest run with marathon pace, I have 2nd edition.

  • Well done on all the mp runs,

    just a short post as on my phone, but a 4 minute pb at Stafford half, and my first under 2 hours at 1.56.48, p and d works even for the slower of runners image
  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Congratulations Pottermiss! image

    Well done everyone for getting out there on yet another glorious day! I'm starting to hope my marathon is in these conditions again, because I don't think I'll be prepared for anything else!

    I must say I'm pretty impressed how they made a such good attempt at simulating the Milton Keynes Marathon on their training run today. Heavy sleet and rain, cold wind, and flooded paths. It was a trip down fukin' memory lane. At least the gale force winds were absent and the rain did stop occasionally. At mile 12 I was however cursing myself for forgetting to lube an important member of my body image (see what I did there?).

    Anyhow, I'm pleased to say I stuck with the program. My first four miles were spent just ahead of the slowest runners and the tail bikes! One guy, running alongside me for too frikin' long, coughed every ten seconds like a weird metronome. I was in danger of matching my stride to the cough. It was a very strange habit and made me feel embarrassed when I needed to cough myself!

    I nipped behind some trees for a quick loo break in the fourth mile, so I wouldn't need to stop during the MP miles. Then I was soon on my way with some decent pace (for me). Now I could start catching up the various groups of runners. I was glad I could see some ahead of me, because it was difficult for me to keep an eye open for the small laminated direction markers at times, thanks to the weather. I went off course a couple of times, but realised my mistake quite quickly (or was called back by other runners). It definitely helped me, having runners ahead that I could gradually reel in during the latter stages. It wasn't a race, but at times it felt like it.

    So how did it go? My target pace was 9:00 - 9:09 (4hr marathon pace) and my splits for the run were:



    My overall average was 9:20pace, but more importantly my average for the fourteen marathon pace miles was 9:00 pace. Well happy with that! I took Sis Go gels at 6.5 miles and 12.5 miles. The latter was just as I was feeling a slight dip in energy level due to vertical snow and horizontal rain (at the same time? how????? image). It seemed to do the trick, even if it was psychological.

    I felt fine at the finish. Tired, but okay – and not wiped out by any shot. A fabulous session to have completed and another 54 miles bagged this week. One more week before I taper!

    I agree with you all about beyond 20m @ MP being unknown territory. Having blown to smithereens in my last two marathons, I'm still not confident that I can actually achieve the times that the forecasts say I'm capable of. I do think I'll smash my PB though, mainly because my PB sucks balls.

    PS – I had a hot shower when I got home. Don't hate me.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    Some great long runs with lots of marathon pace in them only five weeks now till VLMimage

    So how do you all feel after your cold bath has it made you feel any better?

    Al-runs I did Barcelona marathon a few years back and fell in love with the place it's a great city and a fantastic marathon, you just need to hold tight to your wallet as lots of pick pockets aboutimage....

    Pottermiss fantastic PBimage Well doneimage

    Well 84 miles for me this week and 2 miles of swimming, an easy 16 miles today and I feel like I havn't run image bit of a cut back week for me leading to a Half Marathon next Saturdayimage 

  • Could anyone give me advice here;

    This is my week next week.

    Mon - Rest/x Train

    Tue - GA 9 with strides

    Wed - MLR 15

    Thur - Recovery 7

    Fri - LT 12 with 7 @ LT

    Sat - Recovery 6

    Sun - Long run 21 mile


    I have Wilmslow half marathon on Sunday and am going to race it.  How would any of you do the rest of the week, LT could move to Sunday, but what about the 21 mile long run?? ideas??

  • Craig could you do a four mile warm up (very easy) before and a 4 mile warm down?

    Great Mara Pace running everyone. Its good to see the training paying off for everyone.

    Just back from a glorious 20 miler with 14 at Mara Pace. The 14 miles came in at 6.31 pace on a fairly hilly route. I have no idea where that came from as I was struggling on the 4 mile warm up. The negative was that I couldn't get into a groove of 6.50 pace I wanted. I was often under 6.30 (which I know is too fast for the full 26) but when I eased back it was dropping to 7.00's. I dont seem to have the 6.45/50 keyed in as yet as my go to pace. Still the most pleasing thing was that I managed to hold pace up the hills which I usually hate. Another one ticked off. Its all getting serrious.

    I even managed a brief ice bath - I think I lasted a whole 5 minutes before I gave up (albeit with a lovely pair of new earrings!).

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Craig your in the same boat as me but my race is on the Saturday at that's going to look like this:

    2 mile easy with 3 x sets of strides, 13.1 miles half marathon, 3 miles very easy cool down. Total 18 miles. Cut back your recovery on Saturday to 4 miles and the 12 on Thursday to 10. Miles with only 5 @ LT. The rest is ok.
  • Maybe, its just the LT on Thursday, I will be running that pace on Sunday for 13.1.so I see that covering the LT for the week and more.  

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Craig - if you want to race at your best on the sunday then make friday and saturday both recovery run days and skip the 21miles.

    I also have wilmslow next week and am just going to directly replace my long run with the race, although I am down for "only" 17 next week. I do have a 8k-15k tune up for next saturday though which I will probably just turn into a 5 or 6 mile easy run.

    I think the cold bath helped my legs quite a bit - I am extremely tired this evening though. That is the one thing I don't like about this marathon training...being so tired all the time.

  • Cheers for help on this.  The cold bath has worked wonders for me to be honest, hard at first lowering in, but felt great all day in the legs.  Not felt tired though, even managed to carry on decorating in the bathroom after my run.  Just have not stopped eating, massive appetite today.  

  • Knackered 15W - Thank god tomorrow is a rest day!

  • Craig. You and NP are machines!
  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    Good LSRing all. Look forward to mine next week.

    HeOw - did 11 today at 7.45mm but was sore from first mile to last. 3 days of RICE made no difference so figure that this is how its going to be for the forseeable so not thinking about it and plan to get back on schedule with a recovery tomorrowimage. Read up about abdomen tears on google and plenty have ran marathons with them so will give it a rattle and hope for the best.


    Pottermiss wow a 4 min pb and cracking that sub2 half well done you !!!!

    Heow I hope you weren't sick I would have been running after a night of takeaway and wine, even 2 glasses would haVe done it for me, hope to foot is holding up

    Men take care, that sounds bloody painful how did you do it ? sorry missed that I bit


     Well done everyone on the 18 with 14...mine was only 17 with 14 (old edition..... the book not me lol )

    Couldn't do mine till this evening due to family commitments so had all day to really look forward to it..image 2 miles easy then 8.17....8.18...8.16...8.16...8.22...8.21...8.20..8.21...8.22..8.19...8.17..8.17..8.15..8.12 then 1 mile easy AND NO COLD BATH !!

    aiming for 8.20s ave pace 8.17 so pleased to get that out the way.

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