P + D training for VLM 2013

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  • 6:40 is my pace and I will be trying to keep it as close to that as possible.
  • Hi guys! Just back from hols (and back at work ... boo hiss ... )

    No time to read back but I hope everyone is doing ok and that minor injuries/illnesses were beaten into submission.

    I ran most days on hols and even got a 10 and a 15 miler in. The rest were 3 and 4 milers. Had hoped to PB in a 10k yesterday, especially with that "sort of" taper but you never guess: race was cancelled due to snow image. Who would have thought that a mid-March race might be cancelled due to a sudden reappearance of winter?? Driving into work took me bliddy ages too - 15cm of fresh snow again this morning. Sick of it. I hope I can get a bit of running in tonight.

  • Ok Chaps - Call me anal but I have just reviewed the half splits for VLM 2012 against sub 3 finish as follows;

    Half Split 1.27.xx - 199nr. onto finish sub 3hrs - 79nr or 40%

    Half Split 1.28.xx - 252nr.  onto finish sub 3 hrs - 66nr or 20%

    Half Split 1.29.xx - 356nr.  onto finish sub 3 hrs - 40nr or 11%

    Half Split 1.30.xx - 285nr.  onto finish sub 3 hrs - 12nr or 4%

    Doesnt make comfortable reading does it. If I was to rerun it in 30 second sections ie 1.27.00 to 1.27.29 second analysis the trend would still be linear. I think the early slight downhill gain needs to be banked to counter the fade. Unless you beleive you are running totallt within yourself for a 1.29.xx split.

    Craig 6:40mm would give you a 1.27.23 half split and a bit of room for some fade.

  • 6.40 my pace too - who is on the 6.40 train?

  • I am sorry I did that research now. 6.40 is 8 seconds a mile faster than I wanted to goimage

  • Thats intersting reading the stats for London sub 3 finishers.

    Thats my plan, I'm running Manchester though. Go off at 6:40, gives me room for fade at then end. 

  • Oh. image

    I might actually be out supporting in Manchester - unless weather's like last year!

  • 15w - If I can get there in half decent nick I am around that pace.

  • I'm with you Men. I did a bit of stats stalking too and loads of the 2.50 - 3.00 finishers had a good old fade in their times. Lots around 1.25 mark at half way finishing in 2.55 to 3.00. For me I think I know I am going to fade irrespective of what pace I start (i.e 6.50 or 6.40). So I'm leaning towards a slight positive split / fade. May try and hit halfway at 1.27 ish and build in a good old fade for the end. So maybe that puts me on the 6.40 train too?! Agh decisions decisions!

  • I would just like to state categorically that I am not planning to be on any trains starting with a 6.

  • I will be on one of the 8 o'clock onesimage

  • some good results this weekend, well done pottermiss and JF50.

    I managed a rain soaked 21miles up the thames path on Saturday. completely wiped me out though, I was in bed by 9pm, and had a pretty lazy Sunday. Although it's the longest training run i've ever done, and i felt reasonably in control throughout. Legs started to tire towards the end, but i was running about 12% slower than target marathon pace, and feeling ok aside from the legs. Still not entirely sure how i'll manage to run the whole race at marathon pace, but i guess we'll see.

    This week I have:

    8mi with 5x 600m @ 5k pace

    11mi GA

    rest

    4mi recovery

    10k race (hoping to go under 50mins, my PB from a couple of years ago is 55min, but i'm in much better shape now)

    17mi long run.

     

  • NP - just out of interest how noticeable are the uphill parts towards the end of London? I'm guessing they are not huge from the elevation profile, but anything uphill at that stage is going to hurt. Is it around the docklands area that it starts going up? say mile 19?

  • Chris, I've only run it twice but the only up elevation I can really remember is coming out of Blackfriars underpass at about 24 miles, but it is fairly gentle.

  • Cheers JF. I guess its all relative then and the middle miles feel uphill in comparison to the downhill start? or is it not that bad? I'm hoping that being from Wales any incline will merely feel like a blip!

  • Chris I think it is very gentle throughout, the downhill bit at the start finishes pretty much where the 3 starts come together, then it is flat till you go over Tower Bridge, a slight incline like any bridge, then it is flat until Blackfriars just before you hit the embankment.  Don't think Wales type inclines anywhere in this bit of London

  • I agree with JF50, the only hill I noticed was coming out of Blackfriars underpass.  It felt like a mountain at the time, but was only really a slope

  •  

    Fiona J wrote (see)

    I agree with JF50, the only hill I noticed was coming out of Blackfriars underpass.  It felt like a mountain at the time, but was only really a slope

     

    Fiona , like the last 6 miles feels like 50 ?

  • How many corners are there? What killed me at MK last year was the continuous turns towards the end, continually going up and down bridges and underpasses. accelerating and decelerating can be tiring.
  • Bloody corners. That's what messed up my VO2 intervals last week.

    I was pretty lucky, though. I nearly slipped and fell in the canal on one of the same corners on my LSR on Sunday.

  • I would love to see Garmin stats for VLM and see these "hills"! image  Anyone got Garmin stats - would like a nose just out of interest, no idea what the course is like. 

     

  • Ha Lit. I was out on my 15 miler last Wednesday and got a bit lazy at the end. I normally run down an unlit lane and know it like the back of my hand. Last week I ended up in the hedge as I forgot where the bend was and didn't see it in the dark! Still got the cut legs and arms from the brambles. Luckily it was so dark no one else saw it!

  • A question: why are this week's VO2 intervals easier? I mean, I can see why you'd want to have an easier session sandwiched in between last week's 6 x 1000m and next week's 6 x 1200m, but this week (in the 1st edition) it has 9 miles with 5 x 600m, which is identical to two weeks ago, except that then we only got 90 sec recoveries, and this week we get 2 mins. Shouldn't we be better at it now? Not that I'm complaining, mind.

    Oh and ha! I win, Chris, because I didn't actually fall in the canal. Though I also don't win because some old ladies saw me flailing around.

  • Just reading back from yesterday, well done Jf50 and Pottermiss.



    Sounds like it was a good weekend for most people.



    The stats from London are interesting I'm still not 100% convinced that I need to go out a lot quicker on the first half but that might change still!



    I wonder if anyone can help me out with this weeks schedule, I'm away from home at the moment so I haven't got the plan with me. I'm not sure how much training ill get done this week but sometimes life throws things up which can't be avoided.

    Hopefully I won't miss too much.



    Thanks.
  • I suspect the lesser intervals are because they are on the back of the Marathon pace yesterday. So don't want to stress the legs too soon after the long Mara pace run. Also there is meant to be a 10k run on Saturday. I'm probably going to try 6 x800s and not 600s. Simply because I like doing half miles as it easier to set up on the Garmin. Still not sure if I'll be racing on the weekend either.

  • I'm not racing at the weekend either, but will be doing my missed MP run on Saturday, as I'm busy on Sunday doing an all-day corde lisse workshop (circus rope climbing). I'm seeing it as cross training.

    Mark, the 1st edition might not be exactly the same, but mine has this for this week:

    Mon: rest or x train
    Tues: VO2 max 9mi w/5 x 600m @ 5k pace; jog 2 min between
    Wed: MLR 13 mi
    Thurs: Recovery 6 mi w/ 6 x 100m strides
    Fri: Recovery 5 mi
    Sat: 8-15k tune-up race
    Sun: Long run: 18 mi

  • That'll do Lit, thanks. I reckon the 2nd edition is pretty much the same.
  • Only difference in second edition Mark is - Mon: recoveries jog 50%-90% of time of reps; Wed: 14 miles MLR and Sunday: 17 miles LR.  WHY they changed it, I have NO idea?  What was the point? 

  • VLM hills and pacing

    London is the only marathon I do, I have done it 6 years out of the last 7 and achieved 5 pbs. Miles 16 to 19 are always the worst for me. That is where you have the "undulations/inclines" and not too much support in places.

    It seems to be one of those races where negative splits are the rarity and is probably because the first few miles are gently down hill. I have the course profile from last year but have no idea how to put it on the forum and anyway in amongst the tall skyscrapers you do get false elevation readings. Garmin will say you have instantaneously climbed to 800 ft - I guess it is bouncing a reflection off the top of tall buildings

    I like to go with that initial downhill and I am definitely in the school of liking to have some minutes in the bank for the final 6.

    My half pb is 01:27 and last year I did the first half of London in 01:26 (an unofficial half pb) and then 01:31 for the second.

    So from this you can guess which camp I am in. Give it everything from the start then grit your teeth and hang in there - and yes it is very painful!!!

    DISCLAIMER: I am absolutely NOT recommending doing a half pb for the first half of VLM just saying that positive splits seem to be the norm for this race.

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