P + D training for VLM 2013



  • cheers Chick, Lit, I need to go buy a foam roller. I think the pints i had last night haven't helped with recovery either, but hey ho.

    Al Runs, is the 10k @ 8am on Saturday that you are considering by any chance the one in Battersea park? I'm doing that one. I'm actually training for Manchester on 28th, not London, but shifted about a few runs to allow for personal commitments, which means i'm doing the Sri Chinmoy 10k in battersea on Saturday morning, then 17mi LSR on Sunday. My PB for a 10k RACE is something like an hour, from about 3 years ago. More recently I did a tempo run where my garmin says I covered 7miles at avg 8:08, so about 50:30 pace for a 10k. I felt like I had more in me, so I'm looking to go under 50mins for the first time. We'll see how I feel on Saturday morning i guess.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    AG, the pace of those intervals suggests that a sub 50-minute 10k will not be a problem at all...

  • My 5x600m intervals were at 6:37min/mile pace, but I should point out that this is NOT my 5k pace. Although the P&D plan says to run the intervals at 5k pace, I run them as quickly as I can consistently maintain across all the reps, as I don't see a great deal of training benefit in running 600m reps at my 5k pace (which would be 7:50 min/miles based on a 5k training run in 24:21 from January).


  • AG - Well you did 3k of them mid run in one of the heaviest parts of a relentless 18 week programme so they aint that far feom your 5K pace? I think they are more representative of your current form than 7.50 anyway. Sub 50 10k should be very manageable.

  • AG, indeed it is the Sri Chinmoy 10k in Battersea Park, or as I affectionately call it 'The Arena of Pain' (because that's where I did all of my LT runs...) I think I will enter. See you there! Presumably you're of the red-haired persuasion?

    Also AG, I agree, sub 50-minute should be achievable given your VO2max pace. The online predictors say I need to be able to get around in about 38.30 for sub3 marathon form so I'll make that my goal. My first time at 10k so it'll be a PB whatever.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    Mennania wrote (see)

    AG - Well you did 3k of them mid run in one of the heaviest parts of a relentless 18 week programme so they aint that far feom your 5K pace? I think they are more representative of your current form than 7.50 anyway. Sub 50 10k should be very manageable.

    Totally agree with this -- there is no way I'd be physically capable of running intervals that much faster than my 5k pace even if I was trying to go a bit faster.

  • AG - I have a sub 50 10K (49:23) and I thought I was doing well with 7:20/mile pace for the 600 m intervals! Actually today one of them actually had a 6 at the beginning image although I'd had a rather long rest as I had to pop to the loo during the previous rest period.

    Lousy nights sleep last night as I was on call and had to stay up to sort stuff out until after midnight as feel really tired now. I think tonight's MLR might be tough.

    SR - with regards to warm weather training I was doing a considerable amount of that in the gym when we had all the snow (boring) and then tried a slightly more pleasant for which included sun and sand image

    I remember the first time I marathon trained I did my last long run in shorts and vest to check that they were going to be OK and I was blue by the time I got home.  On the day of the marathon it was the hottest day of the year.  It was tough.

  • I forgot I had a question.

    I have 17 miles LSR in the plan for Sunday and 20 next week, however, due to a shorter run last week and a missed LSR due to a cold a few weeks ago I was planning to do a 20 and 22 miler.  My question is, would it be better to do the 20 miler this week and 22 next or vice versa or does it not make the blindest bit of difference?  What do you think?

  • JF50 wrote (see)

    ..Even worse getting tasered because I won't stop till the end of my effortimage 


    On the upside, think how fast your strides will be whle being chased down by police dogs image


  • Al Runs, i'll see you there then. I've got darker as I've got older, so I'm more "chestnut" or "autumn sunset" than ginger, but i'll be wearing a red carnation, so you can spot me.

    I take all your points about the interval vs 5k pace. I think my 5k PB pace is so much slower because I'm probably in better shape than I was when i last timed a 5k run, and i was probably not pushing it enough on that run. After the marathon i'm going to spend 6 months over the summer/autumn working on speed for 5k and 10k distances, and possibly try a half in October-ish time. I've been warned off entering a spring 2014 marathon as we've got a baby due (fingers crossed, it's still early days) in Nov, so next winter i'll be mostly getting 2 hours a night sleep image

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Looking at weather forecast it's going to be blooming cold this weekend...might have to layer up a bit for wilmslow half. Stupid weather. It's spring equinox you know?

    Just ran 17mi - definately felt yesterday's intervals and sunday's MP miles...rest of week will be a mini taper now.

  • Ten, yes the dogs could quicken the pace

    Fiona I am switching around a bit with the last 2 long runs this month, will run a 20 miler this weekend with 14 at MP, because I ran a HM last week instead of that run, and will finish off the last of the hard weeks with a 22 miler LSR.

  • Tough run for me today, but for the wrong reasons image  I screwed up my garmin after my second interval and was 0.25 miles into the third rep before I realised it wasn't registering.  I tried and failed again, then had to stop and restart the garmin session to register the next couple of reps correctly.  After that I was okay again, but it annoyed me image  This isn't what made it a tough run.  What did was the Jiaozi (chinese dumplings) I had for dinner last night.  They were delicious, and so I ate a fair number (fair = large).  I was regretting it big time from seven miles into today's run.  It felt like someone had plunged a knife into my abdomen and I was worried that I might end up on the next "funny" youtube clip in the "gingerbread" section image  I managed to run my final mile rep and two further recovery miles in spite of the pain.  It wasn't until after I had returned home that I found out that I could have actually farted with impunity and solved the problem.  I just couldn't take the risk, though.

    I aimed for 7:45 mile reps and my splits were 7:40/7:46/7:45/7:45.  Great pacing, if only I hadn't forgotten that I should have been aiming for 7:43 image  Plonker.

    Once again my heart rate readings don't seem to reflect the effort I was feeling, so I'm really starting to suspect that I've got my max wrong.  Perhaps I might find out more when I run a 5k in around ten days.

    I've booked a summer 10k race to keep me motivated when the post-marathon blues would otherwise kick in.  Regardless of the result of the marathon, I still intend to keep working on increasing my speed ready for next year.

  • AgentGinger wrote (see)

    After the marathon i'm going to spend 6 months over the summer/autumn working on speed for 5k and 10k distances, and possibly try a half in October-ish time. 


  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    snap also

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    And me... plus I have to do as many races as possible on my club's calendar as part of my goal to become the new club champion. I paved the way for this at our AGM in December by casually suggesting that we combine our men's and ladies' league tables. image

  • Me too

    Ten - I feel your pain.  I think we've all had similar problems at some time.

    Lit - good luck with that campaign.  I would just like to be a bit faster. image

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    HeOw, Craig, and anyone else running the Wilmslow 1/2 this weekend - you may know this already but the organisers have sent out a message saying their car park will probably be closed due to recent bad weather - so I am predicting chaos. Arrive with plenty of time...parking will be tricky. Bit odd really as weather in Manchester hasn't been that wet (relatively) of late.

  • 15West - Thanks for the info.


    Just in from 16 MLR, first 6 easy around 7:40, last 10 around 7:20.  Recovery tomorrow, not sure what to do Friday, down for 7 LT but have Wilmslow on Sunday so might just go out for a few steady miles.


    Just wondering do any of you use RunBritain or PowerOf10?

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Did two tempo runs yesterday giving me a total of 13 miles with 7 @ 6:11 and 2 @ 6:7 early easy 10 miles this morning, weather forecast for the weekend is 35mph winds and cold/sleet/rain/snow..... Think the Half Marathon will not be a PB effort image

    some great training going on with all the MLR and LT efforts.

    Ten after my two weeks holiday I'm back into a training plan for the World Police and Firefighter games which are been held in Northern Ireland for the first time in August, I'm doing the 5000m half marathon and 10k cross country in that order with a recovery day in between each event.... Not sure how my legs will be like going into the cross country......
  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Craig yep on the power of 10 and run Britain.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Yes - weather for sunday not looking good. A rather bracing wind from the east.

  • NP - you are a running machine ! image

    Ten - That is great pacing, well done, I am not looking forward to mile repeats at all.

    AG - Your 5k pace must be quicker after all the training, so looking good image

    Nice running all. Hope all niggles and injuries are on the mend!

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Fiona, in my club it's not about being the fastest, it's about being the fastest person who can be bothered to turn up to any races!

    Craig, I use Power of 10 mainly to look up profiles of other runners I come across; don't really understand the handicap system on RunBritain or care enough to work it out.

    Did my MLR (14 and a bit miles, first 6 on my own) partly with the club tonight and there was a new woman runner! Most exciting. All the blokes kept coming up (independently of each other) to congratulate me on not being the only girl any more.

  • I hate Mid week MLR's. That is all.

  • I haven't done mine yet Chris I hope all is okay, with taper time only a couple of weeks away we have just got to hold on in there for these couple of big weeks.

    I wasn't ready for speed work on Tuesday so did 7.5 easy with club, the coach said best not to do speed this week after the hard effort on Sunday, which I did worry about so I did the 600s last night anyway. The last one was quite a bit slower and my legs felt still a little tired but they are done image All a bit faster than my 5k pace, with the last one being close, pace: 7.53, 8.03, 7.35, 7.43, 8.12, I always seem to run faster for the middle rep.
  • Quick question....

    Has anybody got P&D's road racing book?  Would you recommend it for other distances such as 5k and 10k training?  I think it was published in the late nineties, so i'm wondering if it might contain conflicting information.

    If not P&D, can anybody recommend a good 10k book or plan?  I'm hoping to go for a sub-45:00 in the summer (current PB 49:50, last July).

  • 4 miles with 6 x 100m strides was the run today in the up to 55 mile plan, I am not one to question the wisdom or leniency of P & D so 4 miles with strides completed.  Still out of the door just after 5am and it was lightimage

    Meant I was back for a really leisurely shower and beakfast before heading off to work.

    NP some great running as usual, forecast sounds awful.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Ten - I have that book, and it's pretty useful. A lot of the same info that's in the Adv Marathon book. The schedules for races just lays out what needs to be done each week, doesn't specify on what day.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Could be a big snow event up here tomorrow and saturday.....wilmslow half to be cancelled????

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