P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Al

    You can defer with injury once. You defer your guaranteed entry, but will need to  pay the fee for 2014,


  • Also-ran is correct I had to do that last year with a stress fracture 1 week before the start but you will have to pay again in 2014. 15 miles yesterday with a few at MP for me and a swim this morning with a recovery run later this afternoon.
  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Thanks Teknik  image

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    P&D 18 weeks started this morning for Brighton, with 9M ( 4M @ HM-10M pace )

    It's taken me since this thread began to decide what plan and when to start and i changed my mind a ridiculous number of times along the way. I toyed with the idea of HADD until mid January and then doing the 12 week plan but i'd be aiming for about the same mileage anyway so in the end thought " sod it " let's go for it. And i've been HADDING since March so time for a bit of a change

    I was strangely nervous about starting as it seemed all sort of official image but i'm comfortable now in having a plan to follow and now i've got the first run done a calmness has descended on me image ...... i'm off and running as they say image


  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    How was the tempo pace stuff Mace. Did it feel ok or a bit of a shock?

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Keir, not too bad as it goes, thanks. I've done a few longer ones recently anyway ( last one was 8M 2 weeks ago ) so not a total shock image If anything i was struggling a bit to get the HR up.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Started the P&D Sub-55 mile plan today for VLM.  I've started a week early to give myself a buffer week in the event on injury/illness.

    An 8 mile run with 4 miles at HM pace.  A bit of a shock running at "race" pace as I've been keeping it nice and easy since my last HM in mid-Oct, so after three miles I was feeling it but kept it going for the full four.  I think this is one of the benefits of the book, as I knew the purpose of the session so didn't want to cut it short.  On previous schedules I may have cut it short as it was only the first session, etc.

    Also took encouragement from doing it in the dark & sub-zero temperatures, as (hopefully!) VLM in April should be a much nicer temperature. image  


  • Well done to those that have started!

    I'm starting to sway towards doing the 12 week plan rather than the 18.

    I'm having doubts whether ill stick to the plan over Xmas and I've got a half marathon in mid January so I'm thinking that I might be better building up more steady mileage, then start the 12 week plan at the end of Jan instead.

    Has anybody had similar thoughts?
  • macemace ✭✭✭

    mark - exactly those thoughts. The way i see it though is that if anything it should be easier to run over xmas ... not so many time constraints,  no work to get up for, more time to recover etc. I reckon i'd do the miles if i wasn't following the plan anyway. And if i was to miss a run over xmas so what, there's still another 15 or so weeks after ....

  • Well I managed a total of 0.1 miles of running today. image I managed through the snow last week, but today was totally and utterly stopped by a very slippy pavement.  It would seem that very little gritting occurred last night and the traffic was going at a snail's pace due to the slidiness.  I just could not take a step without sliding so gave up. I didn't have time to get to the gym and then work and I'm at a night out tonight so I think this will have to be a cutback week. image

  • Mace- I think you are right, it's not worth getting too hung up about training over Christmas we've just gotta do what we can. I've got a lot of things happening including a wedding so ill be drunk for about a week!

    I think I'm just going to stick loosely to the plan, make sure I hit the key sessions and then do whatever else I can after that.

    Stutyr youve inspired me with your running this morning!

    Just did 8 miles with 3 at half marathon pace, it made a nice change to run a bit quicker.
  • If we are about to embark on a schedule whether its the up to 55 or 70 it surely proves that we have been  running close to the minimum mileage anyway so  a few missed sessions in the first couple of weeks will make no difference will it image.. I have managed a few 45 /50 + weeks  recently and longest run was 16.5 (last week ) now I must resist the temptation to over cook it and step back this week ..image

  • Started my P&D revised plan now (somewhere between the 55 and 70 plans with some tweaks). Cross training yesterday (rowing) and as with others, first run session was the  lactate threhold run. I did the 9, including 5 miles LT. Must admit, the last LT mile couldn't finish soon enough for me - the novelty of running quicker had worn off by then.

    I'm not too concerned about missing runs at Christmas. Its the endurance building phase, no daft non festive speed work for me! Things will get juggled about easily enough at this stage.

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    Those of you planning a lay off over Xmas are missing a trick. A good portion of sprouts 2 hrs before a run gives you extra speed on your intervals. image

  • Hi all, I just started training yesterday as well for Brighton. It's my first marathon and I realise using this plan is going to be a stretch. Have spent 8 weeks doing a Hadd style base with a long run each week of 12-14 miles after my first half (1:44) in September so crossing fingers I can handle it.

    The 8M with 4M threshold yesterday was quite enjoyable and nice to be running faster again, slightly stiff waking up this morning but nothing major and now planning to run to work tomorrow morning (will be cold!) to fit in the planned 9M...
  • 12m MLR today. Run relatively sensibly throughout, but progressing pace towards the end up to marathon pace. Cross training day tomorrow then my schedule departs a bit from P&D as I am including some hill reps each week for strengthening purposes. I suffer ITBS if I drop the strengthing runs / workouts so will be keeping this in the plan. 

  • Hi all, I thought it's about time I de-cloaked and came out of lurker status having followed this thread on-and-off since inception.  In other words I thought I'd post a reply image.

    I've had the Advanced Marathoning book for quite a while, but couldn't make my mind up whether to follow it or not.  It's mainly the higher midweek miles that I've perceived as a problem, but I've decided to make time and give it a go.

    My first run was last night (18 week, up to 55m schedule) in preparation for Brighton. During my 4m threshold run, it felt uncomfortable for a couple of miles, then felt easier image  In the end I had no problem completing the run and my heart rate, if anything, was a little on the low side of my threshold range.

    I haven't sorted out anything for the XT days yet.  So today is a rest day image

    Higher midweek mileage is a change for me, so this is something of an experiment.  There is so much information to take in!

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    I found the mid week mileage the hardest run to fit in lifestyle wise as well Tenjiso. But after the long run, I think this is probably the most important run overall. Not quite so important in the early days, but for the last 12 weeks a mid week 12 - 16miler makes such a difference. Means early mornings / late nights or work flexbility though!

  • I have the old edition and I dont have a tempo run till week 3, starting the plan with a tempo seems a bit harsh, my first session is strides !! nice image

  • Keir wrote (see)

    Means early mornings / late nights or work flexbility though!

    Indeed!  I think the mental barrier makes it seem harder than it is.  Now I've made up my mind to go for it, I'll find time.

    I've got my first case of running DOMS that I've had in ages!  Bit scarey that it's after only my first P&D run image.  Hehe, roll on today's nine mile GA image

  • Night Nurse - with the strides, does it mean that you accelerate to the fastest pace you can run?  If so, I'll have to modify because I've injured myself doing that.

  • Ten, no its not a sprint as such just a controlled acceleration concentrating on form, striding keeping arms shoulders and upper body under control (thats what I do anyway )

    See that tempo on the first day is silly !! I cant understand it image.hope you recover soon from the DOMS.

    Got a touch of that myself over did the squats and lunges on Tues, image


  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Completed the 9m Aerobic session this morning.  Annoyingly, I've messed up setting the zones on my Garmin, so ran it too fast as it was only 30 secs per mile slower than my target marathon pace.  I was pretty sure it was too fast, but couldn't double-check the book until I got home!

    I agree with Keir about the mid-week longer runs, this is only my second marathon but it was something I identified after my first that I needed to get more miles in during mid-week in addition to the long runs on the weekend.  So I suspect these mid-week runs may be the most important sessions for me. Its not going to be easy as I have to be back home by 7am to make sure the kids get to school, and I've never got into evening running image 

  • Thanks NN.  I'll be careful not to risk injury.

    Although the tempo was (very) early, I have already been doing some tempo runs up to three miles, so I was prepared.  I'm quite surprised at the DOMS, so I guess it's the combination of longer run and tempo in the same session that has caused it.  it's not bad though, so I expect the GA run today will soothe the legs.

  • Stutyr - is your route well-lit, or do you run with a head torch?  I like early morning runs in the summer, but haven't tried yet in the winter (except on a treadmill).

  • Good grief !! running those long runs early in the morning respect to you !

    Stutyr do you run by pace or heart rate ? you probably do need to slow things down a bit.

    I ran with a woman at club last night who was telling me about her training for VLM 2012, she said she was gutted as she was managing to run her long runs at 8.15s to 8.30s ...but crashed at 18 miles in the marathon (I knew she was going to say that ) and blew her chance of a GFA and crawled in at 4.20 (not that there is anything wrong with 4,20 if thats your target )

    I have a plan for mine, its club night wednesdays so will run easy 2/3 to club, parking the car bit further from club each week, go in a slower group than usual for the next bit then run 2/3 back to the car !! I have been going in the 8.15-8.30 group which is too fast and hilly for the middle section of a long run, so will drop down a group.

    I am fortunate with my shift pattern I can get lots of day time running done, I just have to juggle things a bit when its a 18/20 miler between night shifts....image

    Right now I am meant to wrapping presents !!

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    I use a head torch for most of my runs as the routes involve sections along unlit roads.  I stick to pavements alongside roads, so my alpkit gamma head torch has enough brightness to light my way (and scare a few sleeping sheep along the way image).  Its my most important piece of winter kit and only costs £15.

    I'll definitely slow my runs down now, as I've checked the book to get the details and realised I've gone badly wrong with my training zones.  I'd used the Garmin Training Centre to setup the zones based on pace, but its not very intuitive and had ended up just making each zone 20 to 30 secs wide, which meant the aerobic one was just after my marathon one, so roughly 5% slower than MP rather than 10 to 20% slower.  I've always trained based on pace, and had a rough idea that my HR was in the right zone.  I'll adjust my training plan and keep a closer eye on the HR from now on, as it seems to be the P&D preferred method.

    NN, definitely understand your club mate as that was my experience in my first marathon- I set off way too fast (just over HM pace) as it felt easily but fell apart around the 18 mile mark.  My split time was terrible - I took 1/3rd more time to complete the second half of the course (and it was a two lap route, so no excuses image)  

  • stutyr - I bought an Alpkit Gamma too, but haven't used it yet.  Only a matter of time, though.

    I ran my 9m GA on the treadmill today.  I'm trying to avoid the icy roads outdoors, because the slipping gives me knee pain.  Also, I'm much better at running slower on the treadmill, without cheating image

    My pace calculation for GA runs was 11:15 to 10:21 and my heart rate range works out at 137-156bpm. I used a bit of poetic license and ran at steady 5.8mph (10:20).  I think this was fine, because my heart rate averaged 142bpm and maxed at 150bpm (according to my garmin - though it was pretty steady 144-145 during the last mile).

    If any of this looks wrong, feel free to let me know.  It's early days and so I'm still finding my feet when it comes to the correct running intensity.

  • Ten..9 miles on  a treadmill image...well done. Sensible I guess though if its icy. Slower the better really..(apart from walking ) image

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