P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭
    HeOw wrote (see)
    Shaz looking good but why have you superimposed a few kids and a tractor into your race photo?? image

    And why has she airbrushed out London?

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    AG, the backs of my knees felt strangely stiff the last couple of days before the marathon too. It was all fine, though, and so will you be.

    Just got marathon pics from my mum of me looking surprisingly enthusiastic at mile 24. And look, my feet aren't even touching the ground!



  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    wow - you are flying!

  • Ag - I felt like that all of last week.

    HeOw - they may all be great, but I'm a record holder image 

    I feel like I could go for a run tonight but I'm not going to until I decide what I'm doing at the weekend.

    I've become very popular today.  The charity that I ran for have been working overtime on the PR and I now have 3 interviews to do tomorrow and I'm supposed to be at work.  Just as well my boss if a Trustee of the charity isn't it.

    Some great pictures there folks.  I can see why some may not have expected you to be so speedy by your attire but appearances obviously deceptive. I noticed on that list of Guinness records that somebody did one in 2:40:xx so maybe you should try that one next time.

    My pictures are not too bad actually but I am not going to pay those prices.  As someone said tho' there will be people who will never do a marathon again so it is a nice momento.  I paid for the pictures from my first ever half marathon (Great North Run) as I couldn't believe I had just run 13 miles.  I did 26.2 on Sunday more quickly. image

  • Lit - that's a great photo.  My mum got some pretty good ones too.

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    keep 'em pics coming guys - they are great image

    AG: completely normal taper madness. Legs bound to feel stiff and heavy and MP seems to be impossible for 1 let alone 26.2 miles. RELAX and trust in the training image

  • HeOW and Shazmo - my race report on the way - tells you all you need to know about the effectiveness of pacers.

    Me close to journeys endimage



  • Race report

    Stressless transition from Hotel to Green start, turned up picked a spot and started to tune in to the day with an endless stream of 'celebrities' around for Z list titillation. Lorenzo picked me out and Poacher joined and we had a most pleasant and relaxed 15 min or so chat before getting on with the main order of the day. 5 mins of people apologetically discarding body fluids around my feet (both sexes) and the 30 seconds of silence for Boston a sombre precursor to the day. We’re off.

    First four miles trickled by and dedicated my time to obsessive Garmin watching, noting how pace was 4 secs slower than lap. Ran into a mass of people and was surprised to find I was at the back of the 2,59 rw pacer huddle given i was at 6.45mm pace. Put a spurt on to get a head and then settled into consolidating the 30m or so advantage I had earned.

    Ran with the masses for the next 8 miles and surprised by the amount of slowing runners/walkers this early on, getting hotter and more uncomfortable with every passing mile but maintaining my pace at just under 6.50mm – Pleased I don’t run to HR as If I had checked I would have found out that I was at 83%max hr from the off and was currently at 89%. Nice shout from my family on the bridge helps me to a half time of 1.29.31 which was a good half minute or so off the 6.48 pace I had hoped to maintain throughout the race but remembered back to the discussion of running flat pacing and new that that was the only route I had left and convinced myself that I had saved my matches  for the end.

    12-15 are more uncomfortable and disjointed but worryingly so for so early on. 2.59 pacer caught me up dragging around 30 people in his wake around mile 15 just as my watch starts to go berserk, distance seems to have gone out so am really pleased that I have set to manual lap. notice that I have failed to hit lap for the last 3 miles and correct it - and I am now struggling, but clearly not as much as some.Starting to dig in over the next few miles and concentrate on lap time which creaks out to 6.53 and for the first time I am off pace and struggling to stay with pacer. It has become incredibly hard work but tell myself it is only a blip and I am running a marathon at sub 3 pace and what did I bloody well expect and to just get on with it. (That was a real internal conversation). I am sure it is this point that that the VLM predictor starts to give me an estimated finish of 3.0x.xx. HR at 92% but I don’t know it.

    Having dug in since halfway It is at this point (30k ish) that I decide that I am really lucky to still be in striking distance and might not get this opportunity again, thought back to all the work I had done and knew that being dropped by the pacer would effectively be the end of the sub 3 effort so manage to push on over the next 5k in 6.42 watch pace which came out at 6.48 laps and am back on track but am in a place I have never been before which is totally outside of any comfort zone–nothing specific but everything is screaming – and starting to make a strange squeaky noise on inhaling – in the last 10k I have ran passed my families spectator point and didn’t look up, I have passed two clic stations and didn’t look up, I have failed to hit lap again for another two miles but the pacer is 10 m ahead and my lap pace is 6.51 (HR 96%). Pacer cuts quite a lonely figure with only a dozen people for company. He picks people up who manage a 500m spurt and then drop back. I miss the 21 mile marker and the 23 mile marker but maintain the 3-15m imaginary bungee between myself, the pacer and we are on embankment. It is at this point I realise I can really  do it. I am staggered by the amount of people slowing and walking with a sub 3 in touching distance.

  • I get to 24 and am running a two mile loop back at home in my head,( down the drive, left at the gates etc etc) and pleasantly tick another mile off sub 6.40 lap and am now right at the back of the pacer and his four running companions as we hit Big Ben. The next mile and a bit are as difficult and uneventful as the preceding 12 or so, keep to lap pace Hr upto 98% and keep within 10m of the pacer, turn onto birdcage – it looks 4 miles long, head down and carry onto the mall with the clock on 2.59.10. No sprint finish, no celebrations, just pleased for it to be over - get across in 2.59.25.

    Quite an unpleasent experience for me which has detracted from the sub 3 time. Gave myself an hour after the run, had a lucozade, apple and milkshake and still took a turn.

    Average HR of over 90% for the run - My last lsr with 10 at mp averaged out at 75% with the MP bits at less than 80%.  Can only put it down to either a faulty watch or, more probably a low level virus as the family have been sick for weeks.

    A couple of days on and I am relaxing into it, and am quite proud and buoyed that I managed to grind it out - first time I have ever found myself in that position. I was a marginal sub 3 contender with the training that I had done and at a 1.29.31 half on the day I was staring at a single figure percent success rate from that position in previous years.

    Over the final 7k I passed 268 and got passed by two and had a positive split of 25 secs recording a 1.29.56 second half.

    So VLM 2013 was my worst ever run, but also my bestimage

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    Better size

  • Great report Men. Sounds like you showed true grit to hold on in those last few miles. Congratulations on a well-earned sub 3.

  • Men great run and the description of the grit needed to hang on to target.  Fantastic.

    Can I ask are you quite rich, it's just that description of your two mile loop up your drive and past the gates etc? image

  • Men - don't think I am a weirdo but when I was out on my run before I was wondering if you had done a race report!  Come back and you have!  So chuffed for you and after meeting you, you come across as an all round good 'un and you so deserve it. I really do hope you are happy with that performance because mate, it was fucking awesome.  To dig in like that takes true guts.  That is what I have learned from all you that, the push through the pain that I know will come Sunday and it isn't supposed to be easy. 

    Did 6.1 miles before - 2 at pace.  Felt like shit.  As you do in last proper run pre race. I looked back on my stats to the last proper run I did pre Chester (I did my own thing for Chester, not P&D) and the run was identical to today's.  Same route, same pace, similar splits etc.  Felt the same.  Hoping it is a good sign as I had a good race at Chester.  

    Literatin - you look great and there will be no two feet off ground photos of me on Sunday!  Amazing pace, again cannot quite believe what you did! 

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Great report that Men.

    One big factor in successful marathon running is how much you can handle pain. Read an article about Paula Radcliffe over the weekend and apparently a major factor on her success was her ridiculously high pain threshold.

    So - remember that on sunday you Manchester people - ignore that pain!

  • Men - excellent report. I really could feel your pain. As you say as time passes the pain will fade and the pride as a result of pushing yourself right to the limit will remain.

    HeOw - that last run is always just so awful isn't it.
  • Yep agree Fiona, my last one pre Chester was so awful, I didn't run again.  I will however tick over and do 2 x 5k recovery runs, one with strides tomorrow and Friday. I think mentally to just feel you still have legs is important.  MY legs felt ace, my CV fitness felt dreadful though but I think that is anxiety re race.

    15 - I read that article too. She was bloody brilliant, no-one comes close to her. 

  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭
    Flipping heck Menn, your report brought a wee lump to my throat. I had a similar experience last year at Mcr (only an hour slower than you!) I was on the cusp of a sub-4 every step of the way and managed to dig deep and hang on in - with much talking to myself out loud! The thought of the pride my hubby would have in me was what kept me going. You should be very, very proud.

    I'm hoping I can blot out the pain come Sunday! HeOw, if you hear anyone chanting 'pain is only temporary, pride lasts forever' or similar mantras, that will be me!!

    Agree with JF50....sounds like you live in a mansionimage
  • Great write up Menn, enjoyed that.

    I had a league race tonight, only 4 miles on a very fast flat course.  I was worried I was going to race it.   Played it very sensible first couple of miles around MRP and the last 2 slightly faster.  I had nothing to gain and plently to lose by going full tilt on this race, just found out though I finished 8th overall in senior males out of the 7 races over the season, not bad considereing it was my first go and I missed one and I didnt try tonight.  A few more easy recoveries to go, Sunday can't come quick enough now, I'm raring to go.  

  • Great report men. And well held back Craig. Good to get the legs going fast, but no need to do anything silly now. Kudos for holding back. Trust the taper and trust all the training. You should fly it.
  • Taking the lead from Ten I started mesocycle 5 last night, 4 miles recovery.  For once recovery pace felt fine, going down any slopes felt too quick actually.  Stretched afterwards and can feel that my hamstrings feel really tight.  Ths morning though my legs feel much looser

    Good control Craig and still good result, MP must be at a fine pace with the result.

  • Good race report Men. You look like you were in a world of pain in Parliament Sq.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Great report & great tenacity Men, you can see the pain on your face in that photo.

    No running yet for me, but I managed to climb the stairs in work two at a time today, I was still hobbling downstairs backwards on Tuesday.  Its amazing how quickly the legs recover.  The aim is to get out tomorrow morning & fighting the urge to do my first parkrun on Saturday. 

    Good luck to the Manchester runners on Sunday.

  • I read the book wrong and only did a 3 mile shake out last night. This must mean that my next marathon is now doomed to failure. Seriously though, I was amazed at how relatively ok my legs felt after feeling so bad on Monday. Still got a bit of a dodgy ankle, which I think is tendonitis, so I'm just being careful and keeping an eye on it. No park runs for me for while - though I may volunteer instead.

    Stay sane for a few more days Manchester lads and lasses.

  • after my very stiff, heavy, lethargic run yesterday lunchtime, i'm debating whether or not to bother with the two remaining runs (Fri 5mi and Sat 4mi) or just rest as completely as possible and be raring to go on Sunday morning.

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Blimey, Men! That's what I call true grit and determination image. Av. 90% image, I'm glad you survived that without a stint in the medical tent!! A great win of mind over matter.  

    AG: do what you feel like doing. I didn't run on the Friday but slow-jogged 4k on Saturday to remind my legs they could still turn. It doesn't make one jot of a difference methinks. Generally P&D have too many miles in their final week. I did loads less than they prescribed.

    Nearly there Manchester lads and lasses image

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    AG, if it was me I'd run either Fri or Sat but not both.  I wouldn't want my last run before the marathon being a bad one, so just a short recovery run with a couple of strides would be my plan to restore confidence. 

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Your call of course AG. You don't gain much from these last runs, I think the point of them is to keep you fresh and get rid of some pre-race tension, but if you think your legs need more recovery time then by all means rest them.

    Your heavy legs is probably more a result of tapering, in that your legs are still recovering from the months of training. I really wouldn't worry too much.

    If you do go for a run just make them real easy and slow, you could add some strides to wake legs up a bit.

    I'm wondering if I should join a running club - I definately can see what the benefits are, but would also tie me down a bit.

  • AG for what its worth, I didn't run on the Friday before Sunday as I was travelling. I made sure I rested lots. I then went for a very easy job for 3 or 4 miles on Saturday with my wife. This was done riduculously slowly (though I did throw a few strides in just to feel good). I found that the jog on Saturday really calmed my nerves but also just gave me that good feeling of running without having to breathe. Maybe worth a go? But feel free to ignore as well. I don't think there is any benefit in doing both days. And you will probably be going mad with nerves on Saturday so a gentle jog could be good - go with someone and chat on the way around to take your mind off the next day maybe?

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    No running for me yet. Had a short jog with daughter to school and could definately feel it still. I always seem to suffer badly from DOMS after a race, why is that? Maybe I should have had a cold bath when I got home sunday. Might go to gym today though and do some other stuff, maybe I should wear my medal to show off to the ladies.

  • cross post with 15W - who also gives excellent advice AG (almost identicial 15W - I like your style!).

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