P + D training for VLM 2013

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  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭

    Oh dear.....image is stretched sideways, I look about 3 feet tall and 4 feet wide!

    Anyway, 15....I'm about 5'5, slim build (well, maybe not at the mo after all the carbs), wearing the above clobber. Long dark, reddy brown hair. This is beginning to sound like a dating site image

    Hopefully you'll spot be and throw me food!!!

  • Due to a family emergency, i'm not able to make it up to manchester tonight for the marathon tomorrow. i'll admit i'm a bit gutted, but putting it into perspective it's only a race. However, in order to salvage something from my months of training i'm looking around for a "B race" to do next weekend. Milton Keynes looks handy enough for me, logistically, so my question is, given that I've tapered for Manchester tomorrow, how do I stay in some kind of race shape for a further  8days, without either overdoing it and undoing the taper effect, or underdoing it and losing the fitness/training effect of the last 4 months? If anyone has been in a similar situation or has some good practical advice about this, i'd be really, really grateful to get some tips. My initial thought it kind of to repeat my last week of taper, i.e. 12 miles tomorrow, then rest, 6, 7with 2@MPm rest, 5, 4, race, or something. Any alternative suggestions. I know it's not ideal but life happens and this is what i've got to work with now.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Ag, that's really bad news. never been in the same situation, but your idea of repeating the last week of taper sounds sensible.  The idea of the three week taper is that its the minimum amount of time to rebuild your energy stores, so you won't have lost the benefit of all the training by extending it by a week

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Sorry to hear that AG and hope everything's okay. Re. the taper, obviously I haven't been in that situation before either, but I notice quite a few of the VLMers including me did a more extreme taper than the schedule prescribed, so I don't imagine you'd lose much race-preparedness by just repeating the last week. You'll probably be all fresh and bouncy.

  • Agent - oh no, hope everything is ok.  What a shame for you and MK a definite back up, it is where I would have gone if anything went wrong re tomorrow. I would repeat taper again this week and do 12 miles again tomorrow. Sorry you can't make it. 

    Shazmo - I am going to head out with pacer, what about you? 

    Thanks everyone - very nervous now, the other half cannot quite understand it!

  • Sorry to hear that AG.  

  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭

    So sorry to hear that Ginger. Hope all is ok and you get your race very soon.

    HeOw.....yes think Im going to stick with the 3.45 pacers after a fashion. Although I'm a tad nervous about hacking the 8.34mm pace from the off. I've done all my marathon paced runs at 8.35-8.37, so that bodes well...but my previous (and only) time was 3.59 so it's a big step to 3.45. Saying that, I've come on leaps and bounds since I set that time a year ago. Are you still wearing the green of Helsby? I'm not sure if my pic worked before (stupid iPad) but once we get going I will be in royal blue vest, black shorts, pinky/orange shoes, long dark hair in a pony.

    Super nervous/excited now. But also stressed as I have a fair but to prep and remember! 

    Good lick everyone tomorrow and once again, sorry to hear your news Ginger.

  • I'm nervous and excited now, I have followed my plan to the letter and I am down for a 4 recovery today, not been able to get out until now as my Wife has been in work all day.  Would it be ok to go out and do an easy 4 on the grass??  I have felt restless all day.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    I probably would, Craig, because it might help you sleep better.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Sorry to hear that AG....I reckon repeat last week of taper too...not sure what else you can do....

    Shazmo, HeOw - my next door neighbour is thinking of following the 3.45 pacer...she's called Alison...so...err...say hello.

    Craig - think would be ok to run 3 or 4 miles just to calm yourself down...just don't run too fast, and don't sprain an ankle!

    Just bought two bags of jelly babies.

    Fiona - good luck tomorrow also?! Do you have a plan? Got any pace in mind, or just going run/walk it?

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Shazmo - can't get that link to work.

  • AG - oh dear that's really unfortunate. I'm hoping that if you're looking for something next week it can't be too bad. Like everyone else I think you should just repeat the week.

    craig definitely don't trip or anything.

    15W - I think my plan is to set out at 9:30 and see how it goes over the first 10k or Sao and decide whether to keep going or walk/run. On the plus side it had been freezing today so shouldn't be as warm.

  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭

    15w, that flipping photo took an age to link....buggar! I'm -- 11077 Sharen, 5'5, not so slim build after too many carbsimage, long dark hair in a pony tail, royal blue vest, black shorts and pinky/orange trainers.....you can't miss meimage

    With luck, myself, HeOw and Alison The Neighbour will romp to a sub 3.45 or less, fueled by the finest jelly babies known to man image 

    Good again Craig, Fiona and anyone I've forgotten....slowly losing my mind.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Shazmo, make sure you shove the other two out of the way at the finish line. I'm thinking a kind of breaststroke arm action to take them both out at the same time.

    Good luck Fiona! I'm actually a bit jealous because I'm feeling recovered now and would like to get out for a nice long run...

  • AG- sorry to hear you can't race tomorrow, hope everything is ok. 

    I agree with what others have said about repeating your last week of taper, you won't get any fitter now by doing extra stuff in fact I think the extra week might help you. 

    Good luck everyone tomorrow I hope you all have a great race!

  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭

    I'm liking your tactics, Lit. Although I might save that for a race there there's prize moneyimage 

  • Good luck to all at Manchester tomorrow, have a good oneimage

  • I have decided against pacer - I am going to run my own race, the pacer could go too quick (has been known...!).  Good luck everyone.  Shazmo, will keep my eye out for you, if you fancy running around 8:30-8:40 pace, let me know, we could see if we could run together. 

  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭

    HeOw, that's kinda my fear as I know the 4.15 pacer I followed last year went off way to fast....as it happened it went in my favour cos I scraped a 3.59.

    I think I'm going to keep my eye on the 3.45 pacer but keep my own timing too. I'm going to set off on 8.34s I think and see how I feel. Would deffo be up for running with you. If I don't hear back, I'll keep my eyes peeled for Helsby green. I'm in royal blue once I've ditched the fleece and pinky/orange shoes (I know I've said it a thousand times lol). 

  • Hi all. Hope everyones well and well done to everyone who completed VLM and on some of the times some of you achieved. I've not been a regular on this board but have followed it and posted a few times. I've got my VLM medal and to be honest still high as a kite and loved the whole experience from run itself, training and in my case the fundraising........But to be honest it was a little bitter sweet because i come in at 4:40 when my HM time predicted about 3:40. I had a few issues with carb loading. basically sitting on toilet for 3 days previous to it because i found out stomach couldnt tolerate all the different types of carbs i was cramming down me. Because of this i panicked and took immodiam night before and on morning and have since read quite a bit that there can be more of hindrance on warm days because of water retention. Which was definately the case. All this aside tho i still feel like i have a challenge left and would still love to get sub 4. I've already signed up for chester in Oct and would love any advice on how best to start preparing for this. I get a little bit confused with some of the P&D stuff and feel like i made alot of mistakes. ie didnt do enough recovery runs or quite reach mileage totals and my training paces were off. The more ive been reading and because of VLM experience with basically hitting the wall after 90 mins the more i think it was down to how my body was utilizing energy stores and that i hadnt trained it to rely more on fat storage. Does this sound like it could of been the major factor? what would u advice that i need to do to improve my endurance keeping in mind that my HM time is so much quicker than what i actually achieved. Thanks all any advice really appreciated p.s good luck to everyone tomorrow

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I don't know about the imodium, but certainly 3 days of sitting on the toilet before the race probably wasn't ideal....maybe meant you were depleted of carbs and also dehydrated?

    As far as the training, sounds like you need to work on the endurance, so that means the long runs. Did you run all your long runs including the MP long runs as prescribed? Maybe in next schedule you could add a mile or two to these (I did)....but if you continue running before the next training schedule starts and make sure you have a real decent base then I would think your time would improve at Chester.

    One thing you could try so your body is more efficient fat burner etc is to run a few mid to long type runs depleted in carbs, so no breakfast and a fairly long/hard session the day before - will not be easy but will make your body more efficient at burning fat/glucose. In last schedule I ran most of my long runs on a sunday that were up to about 17 miles without breakfast, and never used gels in any of my long runs except one for practice.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Ok - last one for me tonight. Good luck tomorrow to anyone out there racing - for those at Manchester I may well see you...

  • Thanks 15West. Reasuring to hear that carb loading was probably a big factor. To be honest i didnt think how much this would of affected dehydration aswell image im abit thick like that at times lol. I got most of my long runs in although i do think i done these probably too fast and so they affected quality of my other runs and i wasn't training my body to make endurance adaptions the way i seem to understand it they come better with running 15-20 percent slower than MP (still not sure on this and how exactly that works). Glad to hear your advice on running carb depleted as this is something i really feel i can work on. I basically needed to do a small carb load night before, have a big breakfast and relied heavily on gels before any LSR's i did and still hit wall at times. This tells me body was way too accustomed to Carb energy and when it really needed Fuel from fat stores it struggled. Lots to think about but atleast ive got areas to work on. Thanks again

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    LTB, did you set off too fast in the race itself? It's just that you say you hit the wall after 90 mins, which seems very early if you're used to racing half marathons for longer than that.

    And good luck to the Manchester runners! I want a proper sprint finish between HeOw, Shazmo and 15W's next door neighbour.

  • Lit my predicted time was 3:42 and i set off for at 8:35 pace (3:45) and held this for about 10 miles then really struggled to hold it and then times fell off drastically. Thing is i did do a training run which was 16M at 8:35 pace although weather was really mild with this and i have always seemed to stuggle in the hot weather. Just wish i could put my finger on exactly wot went wrong......just think more than likely combination of things above and a severe lack of endurance..

  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭

    I have woken up with a cough!!! But, since when did we need lungs, so I will be ok. Sprint finish coming up, Lit image

  • Ltb - have you read the book as opposed to just following the plan? It gives the reasons for all the runs and nutrition etc.

    Remember the calculators usually overestimate the time you can achieve. They predict me a 3:48 but I got a new PB of 3:59 after 4 attempts at it. A lot of keeping the pace is grit and determination to keep going

  • Shazmo - it's just nerves. Gave a great day

  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭

    You too fiona image

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Morning all, can we track the Manchester runners online? The race booklet says we can, but I can't find anything on the website.

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