P + D training for VLM 2013



  • 15 mile run and first week of the 55 - 70 mile program done.  Next week is going to be tricky around Christmas.

  • Tek - that was what I was thinking, parkrun will just have to suffice. Races on a saturday are rare around here .
  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Well done SR

    Fiona - I normally assuage the guilt by adding the missing race miles to the next day's LSRimage

  • Thanks Fiona - I couldn't make out what I was supposed to do.  That makes a lot of sense - a race with extra miles to make up the total distance.  There doesn't seem to be much in the way of explanation in the book, so I assume the additional miles are easy miles.

    As already mentioned, trying to find a race to fit the schedule has two hopes.  No hope and Bob Hope.  So, I'll probably do a parkrun on those days and do a second run later in the day.  I'm thinking out loud here.  I would run before the parkrun, but I guess that would defeat the objective of running it at race pace.

    P&D do say that 5K is not marathon-specific, but it'll have to do.  I remember the RW schedules by Steve Smythe have a number of parkruns on the Saturday before a long run.

    It looks pretty intensive, whatever way I do it image

  • I wouldn't worry too much about fitting in races, a marathon is a totally different race to any other distance.

    I think the races are there to just sharpen your speed up a little bit and provide a little confidence boost.

    If I race absolutely flat out it will take the best part of a week to recover properly, so I sometimes wonder if they are a good idea for me.

    I ran 16 miles this morning in what felt like a hurricane! It was impossible to stick to a specific pace for long because it was so windy but I managed a couple of miles at marathon pace near the end when I found a bit of shelter.

    It took just over 2 hrs which I was pleased with. That takes me up to 54 miles for the week, my best ever weekly mileage and I'm feeling great at the moment.

    Unfortunately it's all gonna go down hill over the next couple of weeks!
  • Just had a quick read back. It all seems to be going well.

    Ten As others have said. The distance includes warm up and cool down (just like a tempo is 9 miles with 4 miles at tempo pace). I tend to try a 10k solo race. Whilst not ideal, to me, it is about effort levels rather than achieving times, as the marathon is the bigger picture.

    I got home very late on Thursday. Got my run and sports physio on Friday. My legs felt battered after the physio, hopefully that is a good sign. Easy 5 on Sat.

    15.5 today, first 7.5 at PMP +20% and last 8 at PMP +10%. Last 8 were very tough and mainly into a strong head wind. Pacing was terrible and I was working harder than I should have been, but came in at PMP +7%, so all in a good day. Feeling it now though.

  • Ten - The centre doing the testing is in oswestry near shrewsbury.

    15 miles in 2 hours tonight. Weather has calmed down was pretty good running conditions to be fair. Which places me nicely slap bang between the upto 55 and upto 75 schedule.

  • Thanks Scooby.  Good running!

    Menn - it will be interesting to see how close your VO2max comes to the estimated methods (e.g. Jack Daniels VDOT).

  • 17.51 miles run this morning in very strong wind felt like a 20+ mile runimage

    Why not race yourself over a known 10k route? it works for me, trying to beat the time you set the week before.....Mark 1981 this is about fast feet (cadance over 10 to 15km) faster than MP so that you move your Lactate tolarance even further away from MP.

    Nice running Mark 1981,Peace on earth, Scooby,Surry and Teknik.



  • I have managed 4 runs this week, 3 being from the 55-70 plan and the other run was handicap race with club.  Well, total dick of a decision, I was lucky I didn't end up injured.  Did the 8 miles with tempo on Tuesday, felt ok Wed so did the handicap (I came 4th!) and did 3.4 miles between 5k and 10k pace (7:14m/m).  Doing those two runs back to back destroyed me.  Rested Thursday, Friday did 16 miles with 8 at MRP (first 8 very easy at 9:30m/m - last 8 at 8:30m/m).  I had to fight demons to finish and that usually, would not be too hard run for me.  Had to rest yesterday and did 10 mile aerobic run today (obviously I have switched days around) at 9:10m/m (easy pace).  Feel so much better today but huge lesson learned.  Also decided to abstain from alcohol as much as possible.  Had few bottles of lager with an Indian on Friday night, another error as obviously dehyrated me.  If I want to give this marathon my all, I have to look at every other facet of my life.  Sleep, alcohol, food etc.  I don't drink much but I have realised, to do my best, I can't really drink at all.  

    Thanks for enlightening me also re the tune up races!  I had no idea, will definitely do park run on those days and run either side of them at recovery pace to make up distance. 

    15West, hope you are enjoying some sunshine! 

  • Heow - Think your being a tad harsh on yourself. If you look at from a different perspective you have managed 4 runs 18 weeks out from a marthon at probably the busiest time of year for most and have done it with some success!!

  • LOL - I wondered why my post had disappeared, then realised I posted this in wrong thread by accident image.  Fortunately it was still relevant (Brighton Marathon).........  

    Week three is underway and I had an enjoyable 10m GA run this morning.  The schedule called for 10:21 to 11:15 pace and my actual range was 10:16 to 11:00 (averaged 10:41).  Unfortunately my garmin 305 doesn't like persistent rain, and gave me some garbage heart rate readings for the second run in a row, so I can't say for sure the average heart rate.  However, the run felt nice and easy.  

    I passed along one road with care, then found it underwater when I made my way back just twenty minutes later.  Only ankle deep, but I was surprised how quickly it had happened given how relatively light the rain was.

    Rest day tomorrow, and 5m recovery on Boxing Day.

    Happy Christmas everyone! image  (I've been good, so I'm looking forward to Santa bringing me a waterproof garmin 310xt image)

  • Did two of this weeks sessions today.  The 9 mile GA run and one of the 5 mile recovery runs.  Won't be let out until the 27th so have to make up the time.

  • Well I did it..yesterdays long run today !! misjudged route and ended up doing 16 rather than 15 but felt fine . 16 in 2.32 keeping eye on HR rather than pace and a steady 73%
    Day off tomorrow ...see there was method in my madness
    Awesome paces for those long runs Mark Mennanias and Scooby..
    NP I hate running in strong winds..I was lucky tonight all the rain and winds seemed to be cleared up just in time for my run.

    Ten I have one of those 310 xt ...na na na na image

  • Night Nurse wrote (see)

    Ten I have one of those 310 xt ...na na na na image

    It will soon be mine, oh yeah, so very soon....

  • That's my 8 mile GA done & I'm free to drink my way through the rest of the day.

    Merry Xmas fellow P&Ders.

  • Night Nurse well done on your long run,your right running in the wind is bloody hard work....

    Ten did Santa comeimage and give you a 310 xt.

    Ziggy enjoy your drinkimage........

     6 miles in the bag done as 1 mile warm up 4 x 1 mile intervals and 1 mile cool down splits: 7:54, 5:53, 5:56, 5:49, 6:05, 7:43image started to feel the burn in that last mile image Out again later for another 6 miles with some strides.image Enjoy the rest of your day peeps.


  • Some nice runs going on today.

    Mixture of guilt and smugness for running on Christmas day. 8 miles with 10x100m strides. Already stressing about the hung over 12 miles tomorrow. I suppose I could always not drink (no, too late already).

    Happy holidays everyone.

  • Second six miles done now for my Christmas pud and a glass of redimage

  • Well done you Christmas day runners.. I need  that 12 mile medium long run tomorrow,  I have eaten yesterdays 16 miler and more today image

  • Hope Santa brought everyone there hearts desires ( garmins, trainers, alpkit torches etc. Merry Christmas to all. Must go for a run tomorrow...

  • mark1981 wrote (see)
    I wouldn't worry too much about fitting in races, a marathon is a totally different race to any other distance.

    I think the races are there to just sharpen your speed up a little bit and provide a little confidence boost.

    If I race absolutely flat out it will take the best part of a week to recover properly, so I sometimes wonder if they are a good idea for me.

    Just had a little time to read back a bit. Sat waiting for brekky to go down a bit before heading out for 12 miler. (I have to get it out the way by mid day as I am working this afternoon )

    Re the conversation about tune up races.

    I am with Mark 100% on that one, for one thing for me I tend to work a lot of Fri/Sat nights so racing is something I cant do at weekends unless its one I am targeting for a decent time, eg I will make sure I can have a decent half marathon in March so will taper properly(ish) .

    So where it says "tune up race" I just run that session hard , which is probably better in many ways (for me anyway) as I cant get too competitive and swept away and run the whole thing too hard hampering subsequent sessions.

    Now I have to plan where to run without doubling back too much which I hate doing..my long run routes are pretty much flooded and impassable, Sunny Devon ??image Erm dont think so..

  • Right thats that done...guess you lot are still in bed !!

    12 miles in 1.55 felt tired and sluggish ran by HR,  makes so much difference, when I am rested and not hungover I can 9  min  mile at that HR...wheres today 9.35-9-40 !!

    Off to work now

  • Merry christmas everyone!

    Nice running NN!

    Just did my 12 miles in 1.32, I was the same, had to work a lot harder than I should have done. Managed to get out for a 5 miler yesterday too.

    I'm pleased to have trained the last 2 days because I've drunk way too much.

    I'm goin to the football today and then a wedding tomorrow so I'm going to be doing a lot more hungover running this week!
  • 13.16 miles done as a MLR this morning happy with the way my legs feel after yesterday's two sessions, will get some foam roller and core work in later.

    Don't work to hard NN x
  • Well done with the MLR's Night Nurse and No Pain.  Hmm, presumably the latter never visits the former image.

    I received my 310xt from Santa image.  I haven't had a chance to set it up yet, because I've been so busy setting up numerous toys/games/devices for the kids/wife image  Good fun, but I'm feeling shattered!  

    I snuck in my 4m recovery run early today. Almost fell asleep on the treadmill.

    Hoping to head outside for my LT session tomorrow.

  • Nice MLR for NN, Mark and NP.

    I managed 12.5 miles. Not fun in any way shape or form. Totally over did it yesterday, paid for it today. Happy once it was finished.

  • Scooby you are not alone believe me image

    NP  I had a very easy shift I work in a neuro rehab ward where those who are well enough can go home for Christmas and new year so we were nice and quiet image

    Ten  I am glad you got that 310  enjoy it ..especially setting it up for the max heart rate , make sure you do it properly  the 220 - age is a bit general and can be way out so look at another way of doing it..ie running up a hill a few times till you puke at the top.image

  • Well done everyone on getting out there - we are a bloody dedicated bunch!  I am hard on myself Peace!  Thank you though. image  

    NightNurse, you and I run very very similar paces, what time are you aiming for again? 

    Ten - ooh exciting!  I will probably ugrade my 405 soon, let me know what it is like. Just ordered some new Adidas Adizero Feathers, can't wait to get them. 

    My HRM needs new battery, it is all over the place.  Must sort it out.   Monday I got up at 5am, ran 5.7 miles to Tesco at easy pace (9:15) - did a shop, left it at customer services, ran back home the long way to make distance up to just over 13 miles.  Average was 9:15 for the 13.3 miles. Was lovely running in pitch black with sun coming up, however, was torrential rain for last part!  Listened to old Marathon talk podcast about Comrades, now there is a race I want to do before I die.  

    Rested yesterday, was glad of it as had ran 40 miles in 4 days. Didn't drink as I wanted to do tempo today.  Did 9 miles with 4 miles at tempo (7:30m/m) and the rest steady.  Overall pace was 7:48 which was a damn good run for me, considering, a few weeks ago I did Stockport 10 miler (hillier course than mine today though!) at that exact same pace and today was not too massive an effort.  I ran it by feel really, only glancing at my Garmin and wondering why I wasn't collapsing.  I have loosely followed P&D for a few weeks building miles up and I can see the extra mileage has really helped my speed endurance.  I hope I can smash Helsby HM in 3 weeks. My HM PB pace is 7:57 (flat race too) back in Sept so after today, that looks promising.   Plan for rest of week is 5 mile recovery tomorrow (will do that around 10m/m, I am dropping my recovery pace to much slower than usual).  11 miles or 15 Friday (depending on time) and will do either the 11 or 15 I didn't do Friday, on Sunday. 

  • HeoW yes I am aiming for sub 3.40 ,(which is my pb) I think deep down if I had the confidence I could get nearer 3.30 but I anything under 3.39.59 and I will be over the moon, I do tend to be a little cautious and run the first half VERRRY slow , when I got my 3.40 I had a 4 min neg split !! 1.52 first half then 1.48 for the second, with a 7.30 26th mile image I felt so strong ..that was off a P&D schedule, so I know a better time is in the old legs but I dread starting too fast and ending up like some of the sorry states you see in the last few miles of a marathon.

    You will smash that half PB in 3 weeks time you tempo paces are also bang on what I run, just don't get too carried away in the first couple of miles I also got my half ,and  10 mile pb 1.39 and 1.14 while doing P&D, that was without even tapering ! I remember doing a 15 miler on the Thurs before the 10 mile race.This schedule will make you so strong.

    I am doing a bit more juggling with the plan today and bringing tomorrows 9 forward, I have my eldest son and grandson visiting tommorrow and of course they come before my running.

    Things should settle down nicely after next week without the sessions being moved around too much for the rest of the plan.

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