P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Thanks NightNurse, wow, you have grandchildren?  You are brilliant doing times like these.  I hope I do smash my PB but will aim to truly do that in Feb/March when I have had a couple of months of P&D under my hat!   Love your negative splits, would you not set off at your MRP though? 

    I am following the basis of the 55-70 but to lessen the miles, dropping one of the recovery runs as I am not ready for that high mileage yet.  Will take it week by week and see how I feel.  I have cut out drinking alcohol as much as I was, only having 1 or 2 glasses of wine a week from now on as I have definitely found I feel less tired since I have stopped drinking in the house (i.e. a few beers on a Friday night or half a bottle of wine Saturday). 

  • HeOw wrote (see)

    Thanks NightNurse, wow, you have grandchildren?  You are brilliant doing times like these.  

    Yes I am a very ancient 50 image

    Yes you are right setting off at marathon pace is sensible I was only aiming for 3.45 and knew I could do that if I took it easy..I tend to lack confidence a bit thinking I am getting older and all that and play safe but I wanted to enjoy it and took great pleasure in striding past everyone in the final few miles feeling comfortable I would rather that than blow it and feel like pooh ...have you done a marathon before HeOw ?

    And yes cutting down on the booze will make hell of a difference, todays run felt so much better and HR was much lower and steadier than yesterdays, I dont drink often but when I do it really really shows the next day (maybe I need more practice)image

    Back from 9.2 in 1 hour 25 , with a few strides thrown in blowing a hooley and chucking it down with rain...what fun image 

  • NN I think we are looking at similar times as well, aiming for the 3.45 mark for me. I haven't run a marathon since 2008, did 3.33 for London, but know I have lost some pace so just aiming for a realistic time.

    I also have grandchildren and I can still beat them at the moment.image

    Are you on the upto 55 plan or next one up.  I ran a 10 miler yesterday and it was good out there for running, I'm at work today and can see it is tipping it down out there.  I have kept to plan so far but guess it will get more serious when the mileage increases from about week 6 onwards.  It would be very easy to run some of those recovery runs too quick.

  • Great running Heow.  You lot make me feel so slow.  I'm 51 and will be very lucky to make it to Grandad stage image  Not helped by the fact that I'm not going to allow any guy near my daughter until she's at least 35.

    I quit booze 6+ years ago and it was a great decision.  I could never "moderate", so quitting was a far easier option for me.

    This morning I ran 8m with 4m Tempo.  My plan was warmup/cooldown at 10:30 pace and tempo @ 8:15 (approx 15k pace).  This was an outdoor run, so it was interesting to compare to the previous treadmill effort.  My splits were:

    Splits 10:33/10:29/8:13/8:19/8:10/8:20/10:20/10:22 avg. 9:21

    HR 127/131/154/158/165/164/152/141bpm avg. 147bpm [plan range: 158-174bpm]  These were remarkably similar to my treadmill readings - slightly higher due to a long incline in the final tempo mile.

    Pretty happy with that.  It started raining as I started the tempo, and stopped just before I slowed down again - just like I planned it image

    I'm really enjoying the P&D plan so far (though it looks a bit scarey later).

  • Night Nurse - if you are a "very ancient 50" - what does that make me at 57?.

    If you go on the UKA runBritain rankings for mv55 marathons you will see that even at that venerable age it is still possible to stumble round the marathon distance.

    If I rermember correctly all the "Top10" were under 3 hours.

    I only started running at 49 and did my first marathon at 50 - you still have your best years ahead of you.

    Good luck with your marathon campaign!

  • Morning all

    A lot of good running going on here this week.  I managed the 8 miles with strides on Christmas day and I'm looking forward to 10 miles GA this evening.  With any luck the rain may have gone off a bit by then. image

  • One gear that's nice to know 51 hereimage

    Nice running NN.

    JF50 it will soon come back.

    Ten well done with the run and tempo section within it.

    FionaJ enjoy your 10 miles later.

    Just over 6 miles Fartlek this morning out for another 6 miles recovery run later on grass.
  • 12 mile mlr this evening.  Back in training after two days break.

  • Nice running SR.

    Second 6 miles run for me today done as a recovery run image
  • Nice and gentle 10 Mile GA run for me tonight with an avg hr of 75% of max.

    The only drama was caused by losing a contact lens and then nearly running into a fence.

  • Some nice post Christmas runs being posted.

    5 miles recovery today, felt a lot easier than yesterday.

  • Four mile recovery run this morning.  It was my first ever trail run in the dark, so it was quite an adventure for me.  Along one part of the trail it felt like I was running on a treadmill.  The trail was moving beneath my feet, but the peripheral scenerey didn't appear to be moving.  It was a surreal experience.

    It was very windy and raining as well as pitch black, so I now feel like I can cope with  most things that can be thrown at me.  I was back home by 6:30am.

  • Five mile recovery run for me this morning, a gentle start to the day.  NP not sure how much extra pace I can find, age does seem to pinched little bits of it and I ain't going to get any younger.  Maintaining what I have got seems a good goal now.

  • Some excellent Xmas running going on here. Must say I noticed a dent in my HR performance directly proportional to my intake of chocolate, cheese and port.

    10M GA for me last night at a nice average 70% HRR. Plantar Fascia just about holding on, still praying for some kind of miracle active recovery...

    Strangely the light died on my Garmin 610 during last night's run, which was most upsetting but it seems to have started working again. Weird.

    I got given vouchers for Hot Power Yoga for Christmas so going along to a beginners' class tonight. Never tried any form of yoga before but I've heard it's good for runners. Any yogis on here?

  • Well I managed the 10 miles MLR last night, but for the first 5 or so miles my legs were objecting.  However, after that I settled into a nice rhythm and it was fine.  Day off today and then recovery run tomorrow of 5 miles.

    Al - I've done a bit of yoga, but not seriously.  It is good for stretching all those muscles, but beware you may have bad DOMS for the next few days. image

  • Zingy well done on your 10 mile run.

    Scooby nice recovery run its great when these feel easy.

    JF50 I still love running sub 6 min miles and feeling the burn long may it last.

    Alruns nice 10 mile run have you tried rolling the foot over a golf ball and sitting with the foot in ice water?

    FionaJ well done on your 10 mile run enjoy your day off.

    Rest/recovery day for me so 54x25m front crawl in the pool this morning out later for 6 miles very easy.
  • Fiona - stretching sounds good but DOMS bad, especially when I'm doing my 13M w 8 at mara pace on Sunday. 

    No Pain - I've been icing, rolling, stretching, night-splinting, resting, not resting, wearing orthotics but it's getting worse. I've heard it's a 'self-limiting' condition, i.e. it will go away of its own accord one day but in its own time. Very frustrating, just hope it holds out til April 21st without getting too painful.

  • Al - that is the problem.  The last time i went to yoga after a few months off, I had stiff hammies for a week. I'm also doing 13miles with 8 mp at the weekend.

  • And those long runs with mp are tough workouts - I did one as a practice a few weeks ago. I think maybe I'll scale down what I'm calling marathon pace i.e. the pace that I could sustain for a whole marathon right now (probably around 7 min/mile), as opposed to the pace that I want to run for the VLM (around 6.45 per mile).

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭

    I guess it's time to get back on this thread again, despite feeling really behind when I read about all the great running that's going on. As some of you might recall, having done Day One of the schedule on December 18, I came down with an extremely nasty flu--type bug which meant I was unable to even contemplate running (or much else) until a couple of days ago. My first run back, on Boxing Day, was three miles and that pretty much wiped me out! image Now I am still coughing a lot but things are getting slowly better. I ran yesterday and it was bit easier. Does anyone have any suggestions about getting back on schedule? Do you think I should try to jump in at Week Three next week if I feel up to it? It had been going so well but, as they say, the best-laid plans...

  • Al runs i know of a couple of runners who run on grass with no shoes trying to get over it, touch wood it's not one I have suffered.

    GO Caz rest if the flu like and on your chest if it's a head cold it's ok to run, as this is base trainng and still a long way out, build up the runs first then jump into a week.

  • 8 mile GA run follwoed by 10 x 100m strides tonight.  Runs have been a bit out of order this week due to Christmas.

  • GO Caz, Sorry you have been ill mate.  There lies the reason why I started marathon training a couple of weeks early.  I missed 2 weeks from my first marathon training last year from flu.  Basically, all you can do, is play it by ear.  I certainly wouldn't jump on to a high mileage week.  Which plan are you doing - sub 55 or 55-70?  I would do a week of just recovery paced running, with HRM on and when my HR was back to normal, I would start training again, adding mileage as my legs would see fit.

    Night Nurse, sorry, you asked had I ran marathon before.  Yes, I did Manchester last year, horrendous! 4:06.  Then did Chester in October, better weather in 3:54.  

    10.25 miles for me (should have been 11 but time constraints!).  Average pace was bang on 9m/m.  Ran first half at very easy pace then added steady miles in the 8:30-40 bracket in last half until last mile was around 8:15.  Now, these would be classed as MRP miles BUT they are just easy/steady miles to me, I am sure that is ok?!  Can't run every single mile basically jogging! Other than my tempo, that is the only run this week I have ran faster than 9m/m.  Tomorrow, I have to do my long run - 15 miles, will do it slow, all in the 9m/m range.

  • JF50 I am hoping to get near the mileage of the up to 70 schedule it I was thinking of leaving out the doubles but having read the marathon thread and posts from other on there including NP maybe I may give the doubles ago..

    One gear..my ancient 50 was more tongue in cheek...I am sure you are a very youthful 57...one of my female club mates is 57 and runs 1.31 for a half and a 40 min 10k, the leader of my group run on a Wednesday is 60 has she is amazing..looks about 45.

    Caz looks like you made the right desciion to rest really..do you have a temp...? have been running with a sniffle all week and dispite that have managed a 16 lsr /12 mlr /9 GA and todays recovery 6...but mine is just a head cold..

  • Hi everyone,
    If anyone is running the london marathon and would be interested in taking part in an MSc study for University College London on barefoot and minimalist footwear injury rates please contact us at rmhkima@live.ucl.ac.uk or ian.masri.10@ucl.ac.uk

  • Night nurse - that is fine my comment was very much "tongue in cheek". My times get relatively better the longer the distance.

    Scrape under 40 for the 10k

    1:27 for the half

    2:57 for the marathon (VLM 2012)

  • One gear !! wow impressive times indeed (for an old codger )image so whats your wava age grading % and where do you stand in rankings for age ?...must be quite high 


  • I've had an up down week this week.

    I missed training the last 2 days training because of travelling, a wedding and a hangover!

    I'm going away tomorrow so decided to do the long run today, I felt terrible at the start due to all the Xmas excess and lack of sleep but I stuck with and ending up finishing quite strongly.

    The 16 miles took me 1.57, my split times were 8.40, 8.08, 8.09, 7.56, 7.50, 7.42, 7.35, 6.43, 6.44, 6.43, 6.42, 6.43, 6.40, 6.41, 6.40, 7.41.

    I thought this was a pretty tough workout, I'm surprised we had this session so early in the schedule. Just hope I recover ok now.

    Good luck to everyone doing long runs tomorrow.
  • Some great training being reported on this thread, and it's encouraging to hear how those of you who have already started the "proper"' training are doing.

    My 18 weeks countdown to Milton Keynes starts on the 1st January, so I've been base-building for the last 6 weeks, and have averaged just over 50 miles a week, with all but the occasional run being at around 70-75% MHR.

    I'm now toying with the idea of doing 6 weeks more base-building, and trying to get my weekly mileage closer to 60, and then doing the 12 week 55-70 schedule. However, I'm a little unsure as to whether this would be better for me than starting the 18 week schedule on the 1st....

    What do others think?
  • YP,  according to the book, you should only do the 12 week schedule if you don't have time for the 18.  Given that you have time for the 18 and are planning to do most of the miles anyway, probably just as well starting the 18 week.

    I did MK last year - a unique experience to say the least.  Hope the weather is better in 2013. 

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