P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Tenjiso wrote (see)

    Good luck with the long runs tomorrow.  I haven't checked recently, but the weather forecast wasn't too promising.  

    Eek... no snow forecast here until Monday, so hopefully I'll be all right for my 18-miler, though 18 miles in fog probably won't be that much fun either!

    I did Friday's 11-miler the same way as Wednesday - 5 miles on my own and then the last 6 with the club, who as usual took it a bit faster than I'd plan to go so I ended up doing a few miles at marathon pace, but it was okay. Then felt unenthusiastic about my 5-mile recovery run today (possibly a mistake to go to the pub after the club run) but felt good afterwards.

    Happy anniversary to SR!

  • Hi,

    Thanks is our 12th anniversary.

    legs still a bit sore. However I have only got five mile tomorrow while you guys are struggling doing 18 through the snow.... Probably do the five on the treadmill to keep the speed down.
  • Some great running and effort being posted here.

    5m rec here ahead of 2nd 20 miler of the campaign in the morning. Going to run it like the last one unfuelled. Also staying alcohol free until after VLM, anybody else on the wagon?

    NP hope you made it to the film but just seeing the news now maybe not?

    NN good luck with lsr after working all night.

    Belated Happy Anniversary SR

    MOTD now, bad day at the office for both our teams Mark. How did your long run go today?

  • Markf wrote (see)

    ...anybody else on the wagon?

    Six years and counting... image

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    If you get the chance go see the film very close to the stage show and Hugh Jackman and Anne Hathaway are the stars of the film image

    Night Nurse no and no, live 13 miles outside but worked there for 20 or so years before promotion moved me up to Ballymena.

    20 miles in the morning image nite
  • Mark- Yeah it's been a bad day for both our teams, although its still very close at the top! I'll be happy if we make the playoffs and then see what happens.

    My long run went ok, I felt a bit more tired after the 11 yesterday so I just kept the pace steady all the way. Finished the 18 in 2.24.

    I'm praying we don't get much snow before next weekend, looking forward to racing now.

    NP - I was at a wedding in Ballymena not long ago @ Galgorm Manor, It must be a lovely place to live.

    Good luck to everyone doing long runs tomorrow.

    Make sure you wrap up warm!
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

     Morning everybody, and Happy anniversary SR.

    I only had one beer yesterday, and none on Friday, so for me that is definately on the wagon. I expect I'll fall off late afternoon today sometime.

    Got 18 miles now. About the last thing I feel like doing, but I'm sure will be ok once gets going. Not sure how many layers to wear, probably long sleeve t-shirt under windproof, and some gloves. My hands seem to always suffer the most in the cold.

    Well done to all who have already ran their LSR's, and good luck to all yet to.

    Went to see Peter Pan with The Hoff as Captain Hook last night as we got dead cheap tickets.  First time I've been to a panto since I was a kiddy.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Morning all, Mark I know it well it has a great spa.

    15West like you about to head out for 20, I'm going off road today so need to drive about 15 or so miles to the start of the trail so waiting for breakfast to settle and for it to get light. Enjoy your runs peeps.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Hello - 18mi conquered in 2hr20. Beautiful morning, clear skies and frosty. Was my usual route round mersey valley trails near in S Manchester. A lot of runners this morning. Also got attacked by a flippin dog (young, untrained dog, not a dangerous dog). Tried to stick some MP miles in there as next week is Helsby half so no MP long run. Hands still warming up despite wearing gloves, and my nose was streaming. Lovely.

    Hope all well wherever you are.

  • 15West -Nice run. image

    When you cracked sub 3 last year, what sort of half marathon times did you do in the lead up to the race?

    Im planning to set off at 1.25 pace next week and hopefully speed up a bit in the later miles.

    What time are you targetting in Helsby?

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I think my Half PB is about 1.27 or 1.28 (need to dig it out) - so doesn't actually reflect my marathon time. I didn't actually do any races at all in lead up to last marathon - not sure if this was beneficial or not?! I am targetting 1.25 for Helsby - but not going to get too hung up about it. After this marathon am going to try and improve my half, 10k and 5k times.

  • Ok, ive had people telling me that you can run a sub 3 marathon of anything from 1.20-1.30 so i thought i might get an idea from your half time.

    My pb was 1.27 a couple of years ago so im hoping ill be quicker this time.

  • Afternoon all. Good long runs banked there 15W and Mark. Not long back from mine, 20m in 2hr 42. Also suffered from constant dripping nose but otherwise fine. V cold but much prefer cold weather to run in. Still can't get my head round how you did that IM Mark in all that heat. Some pavements quite slippy, hope don't have to dreadmill it this week.

    Is anybody else racing next weekend? I5W/Mark what you planning for this week, having not missed a P&D session yet not sure how to play it this week.

    I keep checking the weather forecast for York and it looks like they will get snow Mon/Tues so hope it clears for Sunday. You got your race number yet Mark?

    How was the panto 15W?

    Food time now image

  • Markf wrote (see)

    MOTD now, bad day at the office for both our teams Mark. 

    Bad day at the Brit also image 

    Ten that was a fab long run, the marathon pace section looked really strong, you look like you are right on track. 

    NP - I went to Les Mis on Friday - wanted to go stright back and see it again it was  so good.

    Just finished my 15 miler, was trying to stay more consistantly around pacing but it was tricky where some ice patches meant taking care or walking round. 9.59/10.03/9.57/10.16/10.15/10.03/10.00/9.59/10.34 (icy bit) /9.59/10.08/ 10.12/10.12/10.10/9.58. I have given up wearing the heart-rate monitor for a bit, I didn't know my true max and it rubbed me raw last time, so I left it off.

    I have Helsby too next weekend, I have taken the advice not to taper and am prepared to drop back the pace if it feels to tough, I will aim to set out at my most recent half pace and see how it goes on tiredish legs.

    I have found the plan good so far, my legs feel good between runs even with the higher mileage, (previously in marathon training my legs have always felt a bit tired) I put this down to the slower paces, although my long run pace is quite a bit quicker than this time last year, but hopefully that is progress. 

    I am using paces averaged from Daniels Vdot formulas and the Mcmillan pacing calculator and read the advice about doing the GA runs slower. I will be glad to do more speedwork soon though as I quite like it and am wondering if I will ever be able to run quicker again after all the slow miles.image

  • Markf - Yeah the IM was a tough day, +40c heat, swimming without a wetsuit, 5000feet ascent on the bike that was before the marathon!

    I'll stop going on about it now though! image

    I think im number 200 next week, ill double check when i get home, what number are you? I'll try and look out for you, just hope the weather is ok.

    Well done on the  long run by the way.

    Pottermiss - I know where the name comes from now! Your game was like certainly entertaining yesterday image

    Well done on the long run.

  • Gorgeous day for an 18-miler here too -- paths a bit frosty but not really slippery. I got a bit lost in the middle (must be the only person capable of getting lost on a route that's mainly along the river) but still ended up with a run of about the right length, and a nice half-mile cool-down jog back home after doing the 18 miles in 2:26.
    I was really trying to keep the pace down to 8:45 for the first few miles, but kept catching myself going way too fast and having to slow down (sunshine = overenthusiasm?) so in the end I just went for anywhere between 8:20 and 8:30, which is still in the recommended MP + 10-20% range, and that was much easier to maintain without trying to go racing off every 5 minutes. Then after 9 miles I was still feeling enthusiastic, so sped up to around 8 minute miles for the rest, with the last three miles a bit faster (mile 18 @ 7:22).
    pottermiss wrote (see)
    . I will be glad to do more speedwork soon though as I quite like it and am wondering if I will ever be able to run quicker again after all the slow miles.image

     I'd been thinking that too but did loads better at cross country last weekend than at a similar race before the P&D training started, so I think it's working.


  • Oh, and 15West & Markf, glad it's not just me with the attractive snotty nose! I like to wipe it on my gloves when no-one is looking.

  • Great long run there Lit, and a strong finish bodes well. What is your mp target? In the end I gave up wiping the hooter and just let it drip!

    Did you go to the match yesterday PM, felt sorry for Jonny Walters, think he needs to stay out of his own pen area for the next few games. Don't worry bout the speed it'll still be there.

    Mark I'm No. 997 next week, will look out for you. Was supposed to be going with a mate from work but he's benched at the min. No way could I imagine that swim and bike then the mara. One day maybe!

    The dreaded beetroot juice will be making an appearance ahead of the half next week image Anyone else tried it? I'm convinced by the science but not sure its worth it!

  • Yes I did go to the match, no idea what Walters was doing there, Pulis must have said 'defend, defend, defend' . I thought it was promising until 3 - 0 down image

  • Markf wrote (see)

    The dreaded beetroot juice will be making an appearance ahead of the half next week image Anyone else tried it? I'm convinced by the science but not sure its worth it!

    Its funny ive been reading about the beetroot juice at work today, I dont really want to be glugging down litres of the stuff but Holland and Barratt do a small shot which is supposed to be more concentrated. I know you shouldnt try anything new on race day but i was tempted to get some for next week!


  • Yeah its the Beet it shots I've had. The stuff I read said to start with them 3 days before a race and no need for 1 on race day. Worth a go imo, i've tried it twice and other than the taste not had any probs with it. Oh and the red coloured pee image


  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    15West great 18 mile run sir in the bank.

    Mark1981 I did 1:20 and 1:22 when I went sub 3Hrs for what it's worth and Sainsburys sell beetroot juice but Tescos sell Beetroot juice and pomogranet juice mix. Tried drinking 1 bottle a day for 5 days, funny thing it turns your pee pinkimage.

    Markf well done on the 20 miles same sort of time as for my run but I was on the trailsimage

    Pottermiss well done on your long run, I know what you mean about the film I do feel that Russle Crows voice was a little weak for the role.

    20 miles on the trails in the bank this morning this run had it all but sunshine and heat, plenty of hills, lots of mud and water, rain, hail and snowimage




  • NP - Dont think im in 1.20-.22 shape at the moment but ill see how it goes, im hoping 1.25 pace will feel easy enough to be able to push on later in the race. If not then maybe sub 3 might be a bit too ambitious a target.

    Did the Beetroot juice make any difference to your running? Im looking forward to seeing the side affects image

    Nice run. sounds like another good week for everyone.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    Mark1981 I don't know if it made any diffrence to the runningimage both them halfs where 5 or 6 weeks out from VLM and with no taper, dont think I could do it at this stage of training on my plan 1:25 yes. What you should give a try is proplus caffine tabs try them in training first on a long run other wise you might find you have issues with them, there was a great artical on marathon talk a while back which was very intresting.

  • Hi Markf, I'm aiming for 3:15 for the marathon so my target pace is 7:20 to give myself a couple of minutes leeway. I haven't done a marathon before though so I don't want to get carried away and try to go too fast.

    I suppose eating beetroot doesn't work as well as drinking the juice? It'd be a lot nicer.

  • I guess the benefit from Pro Plus would be the caffeine boost you get?

    I usually use gels with some caffeine in during races, not sure how they compare with pro plus, ill have to give it a try.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    Its more to do with the increase in endurance pushing back the stage when fatigue effects your running, it has worked for me but do try it on a long run first and listen to that pod cast.

    Literatin it wont hurt roasted beetroot is niceimage 

  • I've stopped caffeine a week before racing before and then had sis caffeine gels on race morning and during a race. NP what advice would you give for taking the Pro tabs?

    Lit, snap, 7.20's is my current mp too.

    Yes NP, mine was near enough pancake flat this morn. Forgot to answer your Q the other day, am near Scarborough and ran by the coast this morning.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    No coffee or tea for a week then 3,  1 hour before the start the effectcan last up to 5 hours. But like I said don't just try it on race day you need to try it on a long run weeks before.

  • Some great running going on here folks - well done all!

    Completed my 18M long effort this morning after gigging last night (I play in an 80's tribute band!) - a beautiful morning along the Tarka Trail in North Devon with perfect running conditions. Clocked 2:12:12 which was (quite a lot) faster than I intended to go but honestly felt good the whole way round (ran to 'percieved effort' rather than watch or HRM) - So it's 5M recovery tomorrow before the rest on Tuesday!

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