P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Evening..had a quick read earlier and was very envious that you had all got the long runs in while I was sleeping off my night shift,.

    Some impressive paces and its good to see Literatin is a female keeping up with men in those fast long runs..good girl !!..

    Pottermiss nice even splits well done image

    Dave..are you actually from North Devon ? I am just outside of Exeter..are you doing Bideford half on 3rd March..The Tarka Trail is perfect for a long run..nice and flat as long as there isnt a headwind.

    I really didnt feel like running 18 miles when I got up at 2 oclock...but didnt actually feel too bad after a mound of shreddies and a couple cups of coffee

    Hilly first 7 miles....to get them out the way..then gentley undulating....should have been 18 but was 18.35 when I git home OCD took over and had to make it up to 18.5, hard to run it progressively due to the hills but HR nice and low 72.7%

    9.47..9.41..9.40..9.30..9.31..9.27..9.27..9.23..9.21..9.19..9.21..9.16..9.23..9.21 ..9.15..9.10..9.12..9.05.. 4.30


  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Well done NN for getting out this afternoon and getting the long run done and out of the way image
  • Nice running, Dave and Night Nurse, impressive time for 18 miles Dave.

    Good end to the week for me, did a swim with the Tri club, 5x500m endurance swim and then a nice gentle 5m run to end the week on 62 miles/100km!

    My longest run week ever. So far so good!
  • Night Nurse wrote (see)

    Some impressive paces and its good to see Literatin is a female keeping up with men in those fast long runs..good girl !!..

    Ha, thanks! I've got used to keeping up with men since joining the club, since we only have 5 women in total, and the other four don't come out training much... And well done for your run this afternoon; I can imagine exactly how unenthusiastic you must have felt!

    Looks like everyone's training is going really well at the moment: proof that P&D really works?

  • Evening all.  I type this from the luxury of my couch but today, some dick called HeOw decided to run 15 miles, in truly shiteous weather, whilst still recovering from a bad throat and cough.  If I am still alive in the morning, I shall let you all know.  I don't expect to be though. image   Average pace 9:18m/m, felt like I was running at HMRP though. image  However, I was starting to palpitate as I hadn't ran since Wed.  So, only 3 runs for me this week, missed the easiest 3 with being ill though so not too bad.  Have managed the tempo, MLR and LSR (although couldn't do 16 miles as weather so atrocious and pitch black, had no Hi Viz or headtorch on me). Hopefully can get back on the P&D bus this week.  No taper for Helsby. 

    Well done NN, I too eat Shreddies, in fact, I am about to have a large bowl now!  

    Dave and 15 West - cracking 18 milers.  Send me yer pace for next weekend's race please.  


  • HeOw you naughty girl image you should have rested , a good pace but I hope you havent knackered yourself...get well properly before doing too much, seriously I made that mistake a few years ago and dived right back into high mileage after the flu and chest infection ignoring high heart rate and all the warning signs and I of all people should have known better !!!! and ran the marathon from hell...hence not doing one since....till now

  • Hopefully will come out of it unscathed.  Had it been awful, I would have aborted it and got a taxi home but funnily enough, managed a sprint finish last 200m!  So, don't think I am that ill.  I should know better though. However, we runners, are right canterkerous arses if we don't keep to our plans aren't we?!  I had to do it, for the good of the family... image

  • I ran my 15m MLR today.

    I'm still not sure of PMP so I decided to run it to heart rate. Starting with my HR being at 74% max for the 1st 5 miles (avg 7.57m/m), approx 79% for the middle 5 miles (avg 7:04m/m) and then about 84% for the final 5 miles (avg 6:56m/m). My final two miles were my fastest and I finished feeling like I could have gone on.

    Although my HR followed the HR range suggested by P&D for a MLR I think I ran the session too hard (something I know I do a lot, image). However it was my first run in daylight since the 1st of January and I was guilty of enjoying myself a bit too much.

    It was just one of those runs were everything feels good. However I know I'm going to have to learn a bit of restraint if I'm going to turn up at London in one piece.

    Speaking of London, I've decided that it is not my main race. I'm going to run it as a VLSR and instead focus on peaking for the Edinburgh Marathon 5 weeks later. 

    However I've no idea how I'm going to adjust the schedule to reflect this change of focus.

  • HeOw wrote (see)However, we runners, are right canterkerous arses if we don't keep to our plans aren't we?!  I had to do it, for the good of the family... image

    I know what you mean HeOw I actually used up annual leave so I could get my 18 done today and not have to go back to work tonight...how sad is that ??

  • Nice run Ziggy sounds like you got things right finishing feeling strong rather than hanging . !! 

  • Ziggy, I would say, from the fact you could have carried on, your PRP is right?  I remember doing a 15 miler and was wasted at end of it and knew then, the PRP for Chester was way out.  Your HR also will come down over next couple of months.  Re VLM done easy, as long as you keep it very easy, shouldn't do any harm?  Well done on great run!

    NN, seen as I am your running twin and IF I did work, I too would take annual leave to run.  In fact, I wouldn't go on holiday at all, would just run.

  • HeOw you look after 3 children and a husband...you do work image

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    Fifteen-miler done today. Not all that fast but within P&D pace guidelines. Did last few mins at MP just for the fun of it and felt quite fresh afterwards. Not so sure about 10 miles (or however many - don't have schedule on me) MP next week. I think that may be a bit unrealistic! Still, nice to be back on schedule.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Ziggy - there is a section at back of P&D for mentalists who like to multi-marathon...

  • Night Nurse wrote (see)

    Dave..are you actually from North Devon ? I am just outside of Exeter..are you doing Bideford half on 3rd March..The Tarka Trail is perfect for a long run..nice and flat as long as there isnt a headwind.

    Hi NN

    I've lived in Bideford for the last 20 years and run the Bideford 1/2 quite regularly. I ran the very 1st one back in 1995 when there were only just over 100 finishers (I clocked 1:28:30), last years (which I also ran) had over 1000 finishers (I clocked 1:23:51 which was just under 1/2 minute outside my PB) so the event really has grown from it's small beginnings into one of Devon's biggest running events - you're right about the course as well, nice & flat so great PB potential if there is no wind

    I'll be running it this year again as part of my London build up (although I haven't entered yet) so if you're running it let me know your race number & I'll make sure I say hello!

    Well done on the 18M btw, great effort and very impressive pacing with the gradual winding up, good stuff!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    So, hands up who's doing a half next week, and if so how are you fitting into schedue? I am thinking of making up the miles today by running 5 easy miles, then just sticking to the plan and replacing the 18miles incl 10@MP next sunday with the half marathon.

    What are others doing?

  • Phew so many posts over the weekend and some very good runs. My weekend went pretty much as planned, worked Saturday morningimage ran 15 miles Saturday afternoonimage met my daughters and grandchildren on Sunday and they cooked lunch for usimage

    Run splits were 9.09, 8.56, 9.04, 9.11, 9.18 for the first 5 miles, bit too fast but getting there at the end, followed by 8.24, 8.30, 8.21, 8.37, 8.27, 8.37 and 8.29 for the next seven miles, perhaps slightly too fast but close and then got off the roads and on to a trail for the final 3 in 8.15, 8.03 and 8.02.  Total of 15.04 in 2.09.53, an average of 8.42.

  • Dave I have run it a few times, its a nice fast course, I did 1.41 the last time I ran it in 2011, I didn't run it last year as it was the day after my 50th birthday party image but will be there this year with my club mates southwest roadrunners, I best hurry up and enter as there is no entry on the day, are you a member of Bideford AAC ? well done on the fast half times .

    I have also done the 10 miler a couple of times there is always a bloody headwind along the estuary ..

    Go caz well done on getting the 15 done

    JF50 nice spilts and glad you enjoyed that well earned roast.

    Rest day today..but hoping to get a swim done later

  • 15West - Good question.  I'm not running a half marathon until March, but will also be looking for some guidance.  For one thing, it must depend on the purpose of the HM - that is, will it be raced?  In my case, I want to use the March half-marathon to assess my capability in the marathon, so I want to race it as fast as I can.  Therefore, I think I will need to have a mini-taper of some sort?  Also, I'll need to recover - which may mean replacing a hard session or two with easier sessions after the race? image  

    The book does give some guidance - e.g. not racing within 4 days of VO2 max session, but is less clear on what to do afterwards.

  • I have a half next week where i'll be having a very easy week and then racing it 100%

    The halfs I'm doing in March will just fit into plan and be ran on tired legs



  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    Lots of reading backimage which means peeps have been doing lots of training.

    HeOw Well done on getting out but you should have given it another day or so lets hope you where out of the woods with the cold and feeling better today.

    Ziggy nice run and great splits for your MLR looking good.

    Go Caz well done on your MLR your going well.

    15 West no half marathons here but I will be doing a trail 10k on the Saturday and 20 on the Sundayimage.

    JF50 Well done on your 15 miles on Saturday.

    Swim this morning 54x25m front crawl will get out later for an easy 6 miles.




  • NN, no not a member of BAAC (although I've thought about it a few times) and have also run the 10 miler (always tough due to headwinds as you say) & the 10K in May

    Like you I need to pull my finger out & enter the 1/2 (you can do it online now) so will be doing that in the next day or two 

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Ten - agree about the mini taper. This weeks schedule does kind've put in a mini taper and recovery as there is a tough session for next sunday - the 18 with 10@MP. So, there is one tempo session on tuesday, then no more speedy stuff till sunday - just miles. And next week is a recovery week anyway. So, I am sticking with the schedule and am going to go for it on sunday I think - going to try stick to 6.30 min/mi.

    I have also signed up for wilmslow half on 24th March which is week14 - I'll sort what I'm doing for that when get closer, but again will probably not change schedule apart from the tune up race the day before.

  • some impressive training being got through - should bode well come the day.

    16 progressive for me on saturday finishing at MP of 6.50. All seemed ok but was tired . Nice recovery yesterday and VO2 max test this eveningimage.

    Re Half - So many different views on this - I have one Mid Feb and plan to Mini taper (rejig the schedule and push the midweek MLR earlier into the week) and race it- but with a couple warm up and down and maybe a little recovery run around tea time hope to make it an 18m day. Will rejig the schedule for a couple of days after to account for the effort as required. I feel the mental benefits and ability to have a strong marker regarding pacing outway the 4-5 days training which is potentially compromised. I will start at a slightly slower than THMP and look to make it a progressive run - but will bin it if I feel anything isnt right and turn it into a MP MLR.

  • week2 of the 18week55miles plan completed.

    I actually covered 42 miles rather than the planned 40, but i don't think the extra couple of slow miles really bothered me. I was able to knock out a 5k PB on Saturday (24:21) with a warm and then a 14mi "medium long" run on Sunday at around 10min/mile pace, which is bang on target on target between 10% and 20% slower than marathon goal pace. More importantly I felt comfortable and in control throughout, and didn't feel like i was fading towards the end, which is good because that's the further I've run since 2010 before my Brighton marathon where I blew up because of serious undertraining.

    Also my highest ever weekly mileage, and I feel good image

    Hope everything is going smoothly for all of you, keep up the good work image

  • Thanks for your thoughts 15West/Mennania.  I'll have another look at what I can do.

    Exactly 3 months from today to the Brighton Marathon image

  • I Have an xl spreadsheet of the PnD which I use yo juggle my sessions around - it is a pretty decent peice of spreadsheeteryimage. PM me with your email if you want a copy.

  • The P&D schedule's main difference from most of the plans around in the UK do differ in not including a HM at some point so good to get some views on how people will juggle the plans, attack a race etc.  As Mennania says it is a confidence booster to have a good half marathon performance somewhere within the run up to a marathon

  • 15W- My plan this week will be something like -

    Mon Off

    Tues 9LT Run

    Wed 5 easy + swim

    Thurs 10 MLR

    Fri 5 easy

    Sat off/gentle swim

    Sun Race 13

    Total 42

    How about you?

    Well done at the weekend JF.
  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Its impressive seeing all this training, especially with the worsening weather.

    I think I got off lightly this weekend, I ran my 5m recovery along the seafront on Saturday with high winds and freezing, horizontal rain, and avoiding the occassional spray of sea water over the break wall.  On Sunday I did the 16m with 10m @ MP run and the sun was shining and the seafront was like a picture-postcard (except for the temperature!).

    The 16m with 10 @ MP was a run I was dreading but it went really well, started a little slow due to a gradual climb for the first couple of miles (7:35 rather than target of 7:20) but I was boosted by reaching level ground and averaged about 7:20 for the full ten miles (dipping down to 7:05 in the middle).  Definitely the hardest run of the schedule so far, I was floating for a few hours afterwards on the endorphins released!

    Ten, do you have a low(ish) Max HR?  During the MP section my HR averaged in the 160s which is about right for me based on the P&D figures (168 is 85% of HR range) for marathon pace.  So I was surprised to see yours was in the 140s for a similar run?   

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