P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Dave I have just entered before I forget or it fills up..not that ,that is likely really.

    I am also running Plymouth Hoe 10 mile in Feb. So I will have to juggle some sessions around and do a couple of mini tapers and recovery weeks...but not too hung up on it

    AG image for the 5k pb

    Mennania  I will mail you for copy  thanks.


  • I sent that message about 2 hours ago and it has just appeared now.

  • NN, I'm not planning any other races other than the Bideford 1/2 in my preperation - I'm just gonna stick to the 18 week plan & see if it works for me - fingers crossed! (btw my Profile Pic is from last year's Bideford 1/2 about 100 yards from the finish!)

  • Mark wouldnt you be better swapping the wed and thurs ? ie doing the MLR on the wed ? 

    Stutyr brilliant pace for the 16....and running in this weather is character building image

    Dave Bideford AAC and North Devon have some very good runners dont they ?

  • JF50,


    I am doning Wokingham half on Feb 10.  Aim to just replace the long run with the half and front load the hard efforts that week so have two easy and rest day as taper while having minimal impact on the overall plan.  Only lose seven miles from that weeks milage but given that I will be running flat out at the half probably OK.

    Think doing the half will be of overall benefit as very long LT run.

  • SR I have booked the Colchester Half on 17th March which I think for me should be a 18mile with 12 at MP that day.  I know once you get into a race it's hard not to race it so will look to tweak schedule leading up to and for a few days after. It's the only one I have booked.

  • Night Nurse wrote (see)

    Mark wouldnt you be better swapping the wed and thurs ? ie doing the MLR on the wed ? 

    Stutyr brilliant pace for the 16....and running in this weather is character building image

    Dave Bideford AAC and North Devon have some very good runners dont they ?

    Im working 12 hr day shifts Mon-Wed then off after that so the MLR will work better for me on Thurs, ill probably run it at the slower end of the range just to be careful.

    Weve got quite heavy snow here in Middlesbrough today, so that might force me onto to the treadmill. image

  • Mennania - I put my runs and schedule into spreadsheets too image  It's very motivating to compare benchmark runs over time.

    Stutyr - I'm not sure what would be considered a low max heart rate, but here's how I've worked it out:

    My max is 191bpm and resting heart rate 49bpm.  So, translating my MP miles (the final ten miles) to %HRR:

    average HR per mile:  148/152/149/153/156/154/154/159/162/160bpm

    HRR percentage:   70%  70%  73%  75%  74%  74%  77%  80%  78%

    The MP range for HRR given by P&D is 73% to 84%  so I'm happy with those rates.  My heart rate peaked at 167bpm, which is 83%.

    Hope that all makes sense.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    JF50, are you thinking of combining the race and the 18m with 12m @MP?  i.e. using the HM as the 12m @MP, then padding this out with an additional miles to take it upto 18m total?  

    Just curious as I have a half marathon on the 3rd March that coincides with a recovery week's 14m MLR.  However, the week before ends with a 16m inc 12M MP - so I was toying with the idea of flipping these weeks and racing the 12m MP segment


  • 15West wrote (see)

    Ziggy - there is a section at back of P&D for mentalists who like to multi-marathon...

    Yeah I'd read that section but I didn't know whether I'd need as long a taper or recovery since I'm not going to be racing it. However I think I will just follow the book because a) 5 weeks between marathons isn't very long & b) I'm fairly inexperienced at all this.

    Re Half Marathons - I've only booked one and it is on the 17th of March (which is maybe a little close to London).

    It'll just replace the 18m LR with 14 @ PMP session that is in the schedule for that day. I will do a mini taper for it just by bringing some sessions forward a day or two and maybe rearranging the order of some of the harder sessions.

    I'm really looking forward seeing how quick I can go and I just wish it was a bit sooner. Maybe I'll just have to sneak in a few Parkruns before then.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    This is my week (not changing much!):

    Mon - 5mile easy
    Tue - 9mi with 5mi at LT pace
    Wed - 14mi
    Thu - 5mi
    Fri - 12mi
    Sat - 5mi
    Sun - Helsb Half

    I'll be doing the long runs at fairly easy paces - hopefully I won't feel too knackered on sunday.


  • Stutyr if I knew I could be really disciplined I would run the HM at MP and add a few miles on to take me to 18 for the day, but I'll probably get tempted to go a few seconds faster and take out a bit more than I should.  I'll probably change my mind several times between now and then + I'll get a chance to see some people's thoughts after they have both raced a HM or used one just as a training run.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Ten, your HR range seems to be roughly the same as mine - I work with 40 as resting as 190 as Max, just to make the calculations easier (actuals are a few BPM different from these values).  I guess we were just at the different ends of the P&D marathon pace HR range!  

    JF50, thats my main concern - I don't think I can be disciplined for the HM as its my favourite race distance.  I set my HM PB whislt training for my first marathon, so I don't think I'll be happy unless I try and beat it to prove I can improve my Marathon time.  I know I can improve my marathon time by just running smarter (as I went off way too quick and suffered in the unseasonal heat during my first one) - but the temptation to test myself over 13.1 miles may be difficult to resist. 

  • stutyr the only thing you have on your side is that it is 7 weeks before VLM, mine is two weeks later so a bit closer.  Strangely if I was using one of the standard plans I wouldn't give it a second thought, race it and hope the legs recover quickly afterwardsimage

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Hmmm. I have signed up for wilmslow 1/2 which is 4 weeks before....

  • As an aside from paces and heart rates, does anybody take any notice of calorie burn. Until Xmas I used a Garmin 305 which by then was about 5 years old and calculated calories by a fairly basic method which effectively meant on a run with similar paced miles the calorie burn was almost identical, about 140 per mile in my case.

    Courtesy of Santa I now have a Garmin 610 which uses Firstbeat Technologies to calculate the calorie burn, so looking at my 15 miler on Saturday the burn per mile fluctuated from 82 to 132, in fact a couple of my quickest miles had the lowest burns.

    Probably of no use at all in prepping for a marathon but just thought I'd mention it in a spare momentimage

  • mark1981 wrote (see)
    Weve got quite heavy snow here in Middlesbrough today, so that might force me onto to the treadmill.

    Heavy snow down the coast  here too, so also going to have to hit the treadmill. Took my running stuff to work to run home in and although school shut early there was already too much to even try and run in.

    Been undecided about plan for this week and think will just stick to P&D until thurs then mini taper but as Mennania has said also go careful in the days after the half.

    Be interested to hear how the VO2max test goes Menn.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I have a 305 - are you telling me the amount of calories I've been burning which  I've been bragging about are inaccurate - and even worse, exaggerated??

    Talking about calories, I dont' know about any of you but when I start getting above 60 miles a week I'm hungry all the time!

  • 15W, yes

  • JF50 - Funny you should mention that....   I thought it was odd that my new 310xt calculated the calories significantly less than the 305 (in the region of 40 calories a mile less.... outrageous!).  I thought I must have input my weight incorrectly.

    The only conclusion we can draw is to use the 305 if you want to lose weight faster image

  • 8m GA including 10x100m strides today.  This is recovery.... how?  Isn't recovery lying on a sun-kissed beach sipping pina colada's?  I think there must be a misprint in the second edition of the book. image


    Tenjiso wrote (see)

    8m GA including 10x100m strides today.  This is recovery.... how?  Isn't recovery lying on a sun-kissed beach sipping pina colada's?  I think there must be a misprint in the second edition of the book. image

    Thats why I stick to the first edition..recovery week for me...is lying on a sun-kissed beach sipping pina colada's?image

    Ten my hr range is also similar..48 resting 187 max which goes to show the general calculations are pretty much that..general mine would be 176max ohtherwise

    As for calories burn talk...until I wore  an HRM I was under the impression we all burned 100 cals a mile...but according to my 310 xt mine is between 65-85 depending on how hard I am working..having said that at the moment with running 60 odd miles a week I dont think we need worry too uch about the extra choccie bicky...or 10 

    I shall race my half as to be honest a good half time is as important to me as a marathon time...I think image .

    No snow here in the Southwest..bit icy this morning as it was raining last night..take care out there we don't want any broken ankles or wrists

    9 miles with 4 tempo later....coffee and cake with friend first..carb loading..image

  • When I first started running I was burning nearer to 150 calories a mile.  Now I've lost a lot of weight I have to run 1.5 miles to burn off that many!  There's a paradox in there somewhere.

    I'm struggling a bit deciding what to do to accommodate the half-marathon.  I'll see how things are going nearer the time and then ask for further advice.  I've got some ideas, but they are all if's and but's at the moment.

    It's very icy on the paths this morning.  At least today's run is only 5m, so the treadie will be fine.  I'm hoping the situation improves before the weekend 12m MLR.

    Men - how did the VO2max session go?  I'd be very interested to know how your actual figure compares to Jack Daniels VDOT calculation, and what training paces you have been given.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Morning all. 9mi with 5@LT today. No snow on the ground here - icy though.

    Know what you're saying Ten - but in the warped mind of the endurance runner 8mi GA with 10x100 strides is the same as a sun-kissed beach sipping pina coladas.

    Isn't it?


  • Morning folks.  I have a question...  I am also doing Helsby Half on Sunday.  My plan this week is: (in brackets are what I plan to change it to)

    Tue: 11 miles (9 miles with 4 at LT)

    Wed: 13 miles (sticking to this)

    Thur: 5 miles recovery (may drop this to 5k recovery)

    Fri: 9 miles with 4 @ LT (switch to 11 miles)

    Sat: 5 miles recovery (rest totally)

    Sun:15 miles (Helsby HM)

    I know we say we don't taper but in all seriousness, I have NO idea if I could run a HM come Sunday, after a 13 miler, 9 miler with tempo, 11 miler in that same week. What do I do?  I am thinking maybe drop the 11 miler down to a shorter run?  Or, do I just man the frig up and get on with the plan and slot the races in when I can do them? 




  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    For the calories burned figure, does anyone else get occassional very low readings at the start of a run?  For example, on my last run the first mile was only 23 calories (I've seen some first miles at less than than 20 in the past) whereas all subsequent miles were between 90 and 100.

    I've got the 405CX and one of the improvements over the 405 was a "better" calorie counting formula, but I've just ignored it due to these strange figures.

  • Think you should have switched yesterday's rest day to Saturday and bump everything else forward with the exception of doing a recovery yesterday.
  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭

    I would drop the Friday session or do something easier, but maybe because that's because I'm doing the schedule which has a rest day on Fridays! A mini-taper, putting the harder sessions to the beginning of the week seems a good idea to me if you want to run well in the HM. If you're doing an 18-week plan, you've got lots of time and all other schedules seem to do this to accommodate tune-up races.

  • HeOw - I don't really see the point of entering a race where you are knackered before you even get to the start line, i know some people have recommended training as normal right up to the race but i think we've got loads of time until London and having a few easy days this week wont hurt you.

    I think you should have a few easy days before Sunday, then race and smash your pb!

    Then youll still have 13 weeks till the marathon which is loads of time, its not like youll be starting those 13 weeks with no fitness, you'll already be in great shape after the last couple of months.

    This is my opinion and i know some people will disagree but i think races are there to race in, if you cant give it 100% save your entry fee and do a training session instead.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    HeOw - I think mark is right. It's not what I'm doing though! I'm going to run 12 miles on friday, but will be running a v easy pace. Still hope to get a PB for my half, but might not be as quick as if I was totally training for the half.

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