P + D training for VLM 2013



  • HeOw, I think if it was me I would skip the LT run and rest on Friday, but keep the SLOW recovery run on Saturday. And actually, if you do your LT section at HM pace, then you can treat the race as a replacement for that; no point doing two in the same week.

  • As for me, I didn't quite manage a 'proper' LT run today because of all the ice and snow. It was supposed to be 9 miles with 4 at LT pace, and in the end I did closer to 11.5 miles, as I had to pick my way through icy streets at sub-recovery pace for about a mile and a half before I got to anywhere I could even run properly at all, let alone fast. So I slotted in the faster miles in the middle when I got to some dirt/gravel paths that weren't too icy, and rather than going for HM pace all the way, I just went as fast as seemed safe whenever I got the chance. So more like 7.15 to 7mm pace rather than 6:50 as planned, because of having to slow down and get round icy patches, but I did 5 miles rather than 4 to make up for the lower speed. It was a relief to actually get some proper running in, though; I wasn't feeling optimistic for the first 10 minutes of scary slippery pavement.

  • HeOw - I would bin Friday totally and I would replace the LT with HMP  today - theoretically you are planning to do 13 and a bit at LT on Sunday so your LT for the week is sorted.  I would reduce wednesdays run by a couple but include 4-6 sets of strides to remind yourself what pace feels like.

    If you dont reduce the mileage enough this week it will take you longer next week to recover. My view is that you want to compromise either your training or the run but certainly not both.

  • X post with Literatin!

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    Can't keep up hereimage after my swim yesterday I took a CBA image and had a rest.

    HeOw you have a recovery run on the Saturday just skip the LT miles from the run on the Friday and go for the Halfimage 

    7miles this morning with 5 @ LT out again later for 7 progressiveimage watch out for the ice folks.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Literatin, thats a really good effort - my 8m Aerobic with strides didn't get further than 100m from my door image

    Tomorrow was supposed to be 5m recovery, so hopefully I'll be able to do my 8 miles tomorrow instead.

    Tenjiso, keep it up -  8 miles is a short stroll after the weekend's 16 miles.  I did get up this morning thinking "only" 8 miles this morning, which made me smile as it was only a few months ago that I'd got back to the level of 8 miles being my "long" run.   

  • Late look in today, work the curse for most of us trying to get some decent training in.  Ran a 9 mile with 5 at HM pace last night, on my treadmill.  The snow wasn't too bad in this part of East Anglia but by the time I got home, work again getting in the way!, the pavements were really messy and icy and probably only suitable for some slow stuff, as Literatin found today.  9 miles is hard mentally on a treadmill and having the middle 5 at tempo, consistent tempo, I found tough. I used heart rate rather than speed because I am fairly certain the speed, even after a calibration, is a bit out on my machine, perhaps 0.5mph.  Consistent speed does equal consisten heart rate though with only a bit of drift in the final mile or so of the tempo.

    HeOw no advice from me but plenty of experienced  comments already, might save me asking the same question when I get to my only HM before VLM, at Colchester on the 17th March.  Good thing you have actually is time on your  side with it being so far in advance of the marathon

  • Although I will race my half marathon, I have no intention of racing the 20-miler.  The latter is for practicing race-day nutrition and checking the racing kit, and I'll be running it at normal LR pace (if I can stay disciplined image).

    Stutyr - so true.  It's funny how this plan quickly changes the perception of what constitutes a "short" run.

  • Should I NOT do any HMRP work today then?  I thought, might do me good doing the 9 miles today with 4 miles at HMRP?  5 days to recover and my legs can still remember the pace.... Think in the book they say 4 days before redoing similar workout or race.  A 13 miler easy should be fine tomorrow, then maybe just recovery run on Thu, then a nice easy 10k on Friday then total rest Sat...  I have no intentions doing the LT run on Friday, 2 days before Sun! Hmm. Maybe, aim to just do around 45 miles this week, I always said I wasn't too set on doing the full mileage in the plan.  Must remember that. Key 3 workouts this week for my marathon would be 9 mile with LT work, 13 MLR and my race on Sunday with a bit extra ran either side if possible to make it to 15 miles. Anything else, really, is just me adding miles to the legs.

    15West, you see, you with your "I ain't tapering" BIZNIZ is distracting me.  Pretend yer tapering please mate.  In fact, are you not lying on a hammock in Tenerife...?

  • Great run Literatin, what time you aiming for again?  Hard in the Winter when icy to do pace work.

    Thanks everyone for advice, I think a mini taper is the key really.  Maybe drop any pace work next week after Helsby just do general aerobic/easy pace all week. 

  • heOw - your plan looks grand and for the reasons you have stated I would do the 4 at HMP today personally. What is your pb time at half?

    Literatin - nice effort today.

  • HeOw - the plan youve just mentioned is almost identical to what im going to do, I might have to give the tempo a miss tonight though and just run at a steady pace because the snow is pretty bad here.

    Im actually having doubts that the half marathon in York will go ahead this Sunday after looking at the forecast.

    Literatin - Good run, especially in the snow!

  • Mennania, thanks, will take your word for it!! My PB was last Sept at 1:44:17.  I am aiming for around 1:40-1:42.  It isn't a flat course so will see.   I am thinking that when I went to do my last PB, it was only 4 weeks pre Chester marathon and I was exhausted doing it and really struggled last 3 miles as had obviously, spent months training and then was about to taper.  Won't do that again. 

  • Whats your pacing strategy? Progressive maybe? - For my Wrexham Half I will plan the race in advance with conscious review points  where you have feel and pace checks against  to decide if it is on (3m), still on (7m) and finish (10m). I would also start the first two miles at current pb pace or slightly slower and go progressive from there if feeling good.

    I would just reiterate what I have said before, which is be 100% prepared to turn it into an MP training run if something/anything begins to cause you concern.

  • HeOw, my target for VLM is 3:15, but I'd also like to shave a few minutes off my half PB (currently 1:29:18) at Tunbridge Wells on 24 Feb (and will do a mini-taper for it!). Though that isn't a flat course either.

    stutyr, I don't think I'd have got much further than you if I hadn't known I could get off icy pavements after couple of miles! It's not the snow so much as the impacted ice on tarmac from people stomping all over it that's the problem.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Just back from a tough but good 9 mi with 5@LT pace. Tried to run the LT pace about 6.20 min/mi. Bit icy out there, but the trail I was on wasn't too bad. Infact cold, but nice and sunny here in Manchester. HeOw - I may take a few miles off my Friday run and stick them in a few runs at the latter end of next week if that makes you feel any better, will see how I feel Friday. Overall though I think your plan looks good.

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭

    Good luck, HeOw. I will interested to see how you get on. My PB, from October, is also 1:44. What is your aim for the marathon? (I forget). You seem to be doing a lot more training miles than I am. Now, I really must stop procrastinating and go for a run. There's no snow here and even some intermittent sunshine. I did struggle with the LT run last week, as I felt ill, so I'm not really looking forward to it...

  • I'm on week 4 of 18week55mi plan (for manchester marathon), so tonight's run will be 8mi with some 100m strides, followed by

    Wed - 5mi recovery, Thu - 10mi GA, Fri 5mi recovery, Saturday 15mi MedLongRun


  • Hmmm - I'm currently trying to decide whether to do my 9 miles with 5 at HMP outside or not image.  It is still snowing here on and off so I'm not sure what the pavements will be like at teatime.  The main thing is that the gym is just across the road from work so should go straight there, but would be helpful to get home just to see conditions.  I really hate the treadmill for that length of time....

  • Fiona I did the same run on the treadmill last night.  Could have probably got round for a run outside with care but not at HMP, hard work mentally on the mill but good for holding a pace for 5 miles.

    We've suddenly had another inch of snow dumped here in the last 30 minutes.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Fiona - can you not go for a 4 mile jog outside - if too slippery then do the 5mi tempo + 1mi recovery on the treadmill, otherwise do it outside?


  • JF - during the last snow I was out and ran at easy pace quite happily but not so sure about HM pace.

    15W - that is quite a good idea.  I hadn't thought of that. I could go home, run to the gym do the 5 miles HMP and 2 mile cool down back again.  I can easily fit my running kit in my hydration pack as need a bit more for outside at the mo.

  • Really lucky down here in Devon as it's Ice/Snow free (just cold dry & still)

    15 - great session, I'm now off to try and do the same (ie 9M w5M @ LT Pace of 6:20)




  • Still snow free in my corner of South London, but a rest day for me as I've shifted the schedule by a day as I'm working every Sunday for 4 weeks. So my 5M lactate run is tomorrow.

    Good luck with the LT run Dave. That's a fast LT pace - what's your marathon goal?

  • wow busy thread today..

    Heow looks as if its decided ..easy till race day does it..no LT session and you will smash that half time..

    Literatin and 15W super paces for that LT

    NP doubles today then after your lazy day yesterday...at least you got a swim done

    well done JF50 for doing the session on a treadmill, no option I guess if the roads are icy. 

    As Dave says..no snow here so managed to run on the roads/lanes...9 miles 4@LT


  • 5m recovery on the treadie.  The forecast is suggesting we're stuck with the snow and ice for the rest of the week.  Makes me glad it's my recovery week because the sessions are shorter and easier. I'm hoping it'll be clear in time for next week.

  • Well now home on the sofa recovering from the effort!

    Al, I'm aiming for sub 3hrs - if that's achievable or not we'll have to wait & see......

    Ran the 9M with 5M @ Target 6:20 (31:40 total) - Ran 1:00:17 for the session with 5M LT splits of 6.18, 6.19, 6.21, 6.19, 6.29 (31:46 total) so not too bad although a bit dissapointed that I didn't maintain the pace in the last mile - still live & learn I suppose!

    Nice even running there as well NN - great effort


  • Some nice runs going on!

    I had a bit of a nightmare, tried running on the paths but it was so slippy I could hardly stand up, I ended up doing most of the 9 miles running over fields covered in snow.

    The target pace was 6.30, I ended up averaging 9.11 min miles and it felt just as hard!
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    mark - that may have been a very good workout!

    Good running Dave - it's tough sticking to a pace when getting tired - so that's one thing to work on...

    Good even splts there NN.

    As Ten says it's going to remain cold for a while.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    Lots of reading back nice running and great splits Dave and 15 West, Mark1981 thats good running off road, NN Great run with the LT pace , JF50 and Fiona sounds like you have a plan for your speed work.

    Lots of ice still about but second 7 mile progressive run doneimage

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