P + D training for VLM 2013



  • It's taken a few weeks longer than most parts of the country but my area finally has proper snow. image I just glad that this week is meant to be a recovery week and doesn't contain any miles at LT or PMP.

    Tonight I'm meant to be doing 8m with 10x100m strides, however I have a confession to make - I don't really know what strides are.

    The last time they appeared on the schedule I just went for a normal run but included 100m sections at random intervals of just about all out sprints. That nearly destroyed my calfs and I don't really want to do that again so can someone give me an idiots guide to what Strides are? image



  • Ziggy, as far as I understand it they are supposed to be fast but relaxed. The book says to accelerate up to 'full speed' over the first 70 metres and then 'float' for the rest. I make sure to keep my head up and shoulders back and then lengthen my stride and quicken the pace, but rather than running flat out I like to think of my legs turning over easily and my hips rotating smoothly, a bit like gliding. I might pretend I am a gazelle rather than, say, a greyhound.

    (Now it'll turn out everyone else has been doing something completely different!)

  • I'd agree with literatin. I've previously tried doing them as (almost) all-out 100m sprints but 10 of those really takes it out of you and that's not really what a recovery run with strides is meant to do. For an 8M recovery w 10 x 100m strides, I'd run the first 5M as a standard recovery run then distribute the 10 repeats evenly over the last 3M. Concentrate on leg turnover and feeling fast rather than maximum effort sprints...I reckon anyway!

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Ziggy, I'd agree with the others too!  Strides shouldn't be a hard work out, which is why they are included in the recovery and easier runs.  I concentrate on a smooth acceleration and then keep it going for a short distance before gradually slowing down.  This contrasts to traditional intervals where you accelerate as quick as possible and then keep it going til the last moment before collapsing into a slow jog (a bit of an exaggeration but hopefully it illustrates the point).


  • I agree with the above interpretations but NP will tell you they should be all out sprints.  I will stick to running them as above because I think it greatly lessens the chance of a muscle pull but still whacks your heart rate up over a short period.  I did them last night on a treadmill and they certainly increased everything, heart rate, breathing and temperature in my frozen garage.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    A quick bit of googling found the following useful info about strides on the sister RW.com site, as the P&D book does seem to be a bit light on them.


    I have been running them in the middle of my run, but now I'm tempted to tack them on the end.  


  • I was once told when running strides a big part of the drill is to ensure that you are concentrating on your form at pace - controlled breathing, head high, chest forward hand moving forwards not across etc etc whilst accelerating to the maximum pace where form can be maintained. Hold pace for no more than 10 -15 seconds and slow back to aerobic pace. If your form starts to fail due to the effort then you are losing some of the benefit. I tend to do mine between the first and the last 2 miles so I can warm up and down properly - When there is an uniterrupted 100m of pavement in front of me. I would probably not be able to run them at full pace and maintain form if they were bunched up and tagged onto the end of a lsr or 10 mile aerobic effort.

  • Thanks everyone. I had looked in P&D but didn't think they went into it in enough detail.

    My last 'Strides' session was nothing like what you are all suggesting or what is in the link provided by Stutyr.

    I'm quite looking forward to doing them now but I think I might do them indoors rather than on icy streets in the dark. 

    Now I just need to work out what speed to set the treadmill.  



  • Just checking back in after a few days, some good running despite the weather.

    Lots of respect from the treadmill runners I know I couldn't do it.

    I had my first experience of strides a couple of weeks ago, I did the 100m reps absolutely all out, I found it the hardest session so far and it made me wonder if I was risking getting injured.

    I know the book says build up to a sprint but I wonder if it might be a bit more sensible to ease up a little bit.

    I've gone back a week in the plan so I did the 9 mile LT run.

    The weather has improved a bit so I managed to hit my target pace.

    Splits were 8.11, 8.09, 6.24, 6.25, 6.22, 6.18, 6.26, 7.53, 7.45.

    I still need to work a bit on running at an even pace, I'm usually way too fast or too slow if I lose concentration.
  • Hi guys!

    I dropped off this forum for a bit. Well, actually for a long while image

    Looks like everyone is now well into their P&D training and there's some impressive efforts on treadmills and in deep snow being posted.

    After completing 10 weeks of base (HADD stylee) with regular 55 mile weeks I'm now doing the 12 week schedule (55-70 with some sessions made up as I go along to increase mileage and to ensure I get 5 x 22 milers in).

    Plan was to start 2 weeks early (i. e. last week) to allow for illness/injury breaks and got promptly sick after day 1 image (norovirus).

    Now back to square one image.

    Today would have been 8 miles with strides but 3 inches of fresh snow put paid to the strides. No point in doing them if your running doesn't even begin to resemble proper form image and it's hard enough trying to stay upright... 

    To add to the strides debate: I don't think this should be a mega-hard session but more of loosener to teach slow/heavy marathon legs to turn quick again. When I do mine I try to focus on short ground contact, a bit like running on hot coals. I find by doing that I get quicker and quicker without consciously trying and 100m are covered in no time.

  • Didn't we use to refer to strides as fartlek, it seems a shame to lose the Swedish from our languageimage

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Hello all. 8 mi with strides for me too. My fastest 100m was just over 10 seconds.

    Snow mostly gone from streets but still compacted snow and ice on the trails I run on. A lovely day here though, nice to see the sun again.

    Now we're getting a doggy I might have to travel to london marathon on my ownsome as dog too young to take with us or leave at home alone. It's already started, I am no longer the most important member of our household.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I thought fartlek was more like a run with a mixture of lactate threshold and vo2 sections .....I really think the strides are just for form and wake up your leg muscles a bit.

  • 15 if you are running 100m in just over 10secs I think you are training for the wrong distance!

    Have you thought about Rio2016?
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Yeah - could do mark, but what distance? Maybe I'll do them all.


  • 15w my 100m is just over 10s as well,  bow wow image

  • mark1981 wrote (see)
    15 if you are running 100m in just over 10secs I think you are training for the wrong distance!

    Have you thought about Rio2016?

    tee hee ...

  • 15W- 10 seconds from a rolling start i hope...........image


  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Lots and lots of reading back.

    JF50 it was an easy recovery run but still faster than the 20 miles in the snow.

    Al runs I used a bit of my own and P&D for the sub 3 hrs but was doing 70 to 85 miles a week.

    Stutyr it's never easy running into the wind but well done.

    Agree with you all about the strides 75 m flat out and float for 25 m, more of turning the legs over faster. But it is flat out image

    Hi Chick you still over in Germany you should pop into the 2013 forum and say hi.

    Well due to more snow last night my 7 with 5 @ Tempo turned into 10 miles with 3 at MP but that was only down to the conditions.image
  • stutyr wrote (see)

    ...but then I turned to run back and discovered I had an icy headwind to contend with (how come you never notice a tailwind until you change direction!).   

    Probably because you get less help from a tailwind than you do hinderance from a headwind.

    Extracted from The Competitive Runner's Handbook:

    "....a tail wind produces an energy gain about half as much as you lose with the same headwind."

    "... a three hour marathon runner loses 11 seconds per mile when running into a 5mph headwind, and 25 seconds per mile when facing a 10mph headwind.  That's an extra 5 to 11 minutes over the marathon distance; but a four hour marathoner running the entire race into the wind loses approximately 15 to 32 minutes with the same winds".

    We have it tough at the slower end of the field! image


  • 4m recovery run on the treadmill tonight.  Pain-free calves throughout the session image

    I'm hoping it's not too icy tomorrow, so I can do my 11m MLR outdoors.  The forecast is not great though.

  • Evening all, hard to keep up with you all if I don't post for couple of days!  I see 15W is now Usain Bolt's major contender for title of fastest man in the Universe... image

    Tenjiso, glad calves are ok, I think the majority of us suffer with tight calves every now and then and a couple days rest usually sorts it for me and foam rolling.  

    I have had to hit trails as pavements treacherous so, my mileage won't be quite the same as they are pretty hardcore at the moment and my 6 miler today was like attempting to run up a ski slope and had 850ft of climb in it.  So, that shall count as my 8 miler on the roads.  Will do 12 miles tomorrow on the trails too, that will be around 1700ft of climb I think. image  Club run will be too risky though, it is in the dark and it is too icy.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Don't worry everyone, spring starts saturday. Sort've.

    Anyone watching Utopia later?


  • 8 mile with strides done on the treadmill. It was quite hard work, which I'm counting as warm weather training, and I've got even more respect for those of you that have been forced to do most of your training indoors recently.

    I quite enjoyed the strides even if it took a few reps before I settled on what I thought was the correct pace.

    Thankfully the snow already seems to be on the way out so hopefully I'll be back outside for my 5m recovery tomorrow.

    Ten, that's good news about the calves but keep stretching and rolling them to make sure it doesn't come back. I'm a bit guilty of neglecting this aspect of training when I'm pain free, then always regret it when I get a niggle.

  • Well 8 miles with strides done and outside too. image drove about 6 miles to the coast to get snow free route. There was a headwind, but not too bad and it was milder than I expected. I'll be back down there tomorrow.

    Ziggy - it's not easy on the treadmill and figuring out the pace for strides would be tricky.

    Ten - glad the calf is feeling better. Definitely keep up the stretching.

    HeOw - it certainly sounds like you did the equivalent of more than 8 miles.

    15w - wishful thinking re spring.

    NP - sounds like a good run.
  • Hi..

    Heow sounds like a tough work out well done..12 for me tomorrow also .I cant decide whether to go club or do it when I get up and get it out the way a little earlier

    Mark nice pace indeed for the LT session.

    NP  good effort in bad conditions

    Chick..hi  image after all the Hadding you should be in tip top form..

    Fiona I am glad you managed to get outside , a nice treat after all that treadmill running you have done

    Ten interesting to see just how much a headwind really does slow us down..surprising just HOW much..image

    Ziggy..well done on the treadmill running..

    I almost resorted to the treadmill when I woke up and looked out the window this afternoon, I was raining heavily...but luckily it eased off and turned to light snow fall, the first for us here, still pretty windy though. and cold enough for 3 layers .so 8.2 miles inc strides done.outside, so still none of the dreaded treadmill running for me..

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    Hi everyone. it was the first time I've had to resort to the treadmill today, due to ice. I ran to the gym, then did treadmill run and ran home again. It actually made quite a nice change, as I kept boredom at bay by doing tempo and 10k pace intervals. Not on the schedule I know, but I wasn't sure how strides would work at a fixed pace on a treadmill!
  • Go Caz wrote (see)
    Hi everyone. it was the first time I've had to resort to the treadmill today, due to ice. I ran to the gym, then did treadmill run and ran home again. It actually made quite a nice change, as I kept boredom at bay by doing tempo and 10k pace intervals. Not on the schedule I know, but I wasn't sure how strides would work at a fixed pace on a treadmill!

    I thought that doing strides on a treadmill worked quite well. The treadmills at my gym have an interval setting were you set a 'jog speed' & a 'run speed' and then it only takes one press of a button to alternate between the two speeds. The length of time it took to change between the two enabled me to have a fairly conrolled acceleration and deceleration. 

    The tricky thing was trying to work out what the two speeds should be but having done that I'd consider doing my next strides session on the treadmill.  

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I find treadmills pretty useful for VO2 intervals - probably better to do outside but can get a more accurate pace on treadmill. Not sure if it matters where you do them really..?

  • Night Nurse, when I ran in Manchester last year, as soon as we turned into a 40mph headwind at mile 13, my pace just went to pot.  How anyone managed to negative split at Manchester, I won't ever know.  

    15W, do you put the treadmlll on 1% incline?  If so, that simulates the flat road and will give you the same workout, I think also, if you can give yourself a better shot at sticking to pace on a treadmill, without having to break the pace to stop at roads/traffic lights, it would actually be more productive (well for me anyway).  I will be doing all my interval workouts on treadmill.  Nigh on impossible to hit 5k pace on the roads near me, I don't get enough of a flat stretch. 

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