P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Morning all, 5 miles recovery this morning, still icy so ran it on the treadmill, finished series 4 of The Wire, just final series to go. Should be ableto run later tomorrow for my 10 miler so will definitely get out for it.  15w I believe you are right, 6degC forecast here for Saturday

  • Some really good tready stuff going on - dont use them myself.

    8m with about the same elevation as Heow with half a dozen strides in just under 8mm last night and currently trying to map out a safe 12m route for later on (preferably without 1700 ft of elevation HeOwimage). Getting a little tricky to pick a clear and safe route.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    A 4m recovery run this morning through an unexpected light layer of snow.  I now know why the eskimos have so many words for snow as this mornings was the light, dusty stuff which didn't really hinder progress compared to the icy, slippery stuff that we had on the weekend.  Although it always feels better when you're making the first footprints in it image

    Ten, hope those calves remain pain-free

    NP, I think you're the only person I know who runs further when conditions deteriorate!?! image

    Ziggy, good to hear the strides worked

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    HeOw - yes, I put treadmill at 1%. I didn't negative split at Manchester, but did run even splits. I was following a pacer who was very good - so just focused on that. At least there was no chance of over heating at Manchester!

  • After walking the kids to school and seeing how icy it has become, I will reluctantly be running my MLR on the treadmill image.  I've got a dose of the sniffles and a bit of a sore throat, so I'm debating whether to run the MLR today as planned, or postpone until tomorrow.

    I've officially had enough of this weather now.

  • Tenjiso wrote (see)

    I've officially had enough of this weather now.

    image Bet the kids had great fun on the way in this morning

    Yes it's difficult to keep putting a positive spin on it.  Still at least it will be boiling hot on our spring marathons and we'll all be able to look back and laughimage

  • delayed start to week 5 for me. Planned to do my "9mi with 5 at half mara pace" on Tuesday, but was attending a funeral and got back later than expected and couldn't squeeze in the run, so having instead to fit in my 5 runs over the next 5 days, which is ok, since 2 of them are recovery jogs anyway, so not too taxing, and not too risky to do consecutively.

    I imagine i'm not the only one who has to shuffle the odd run about.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Hi Ten, isn't the 11m MLR down as tomorrow in the schedule anyway?  You could probably delay it until Friday if you're not feeling well, as long as you're OK to do the 18m long run on Sunday.

    BBC website has the temperature being 5 degrees higher on Friday, so it looks like it will be relatively mild this weekend.

    How long until we start complaining about the rain and reminiscing about the snow image

  • Yes I've had a look at the forecast here for the next 5 days, cold till Friday then suddenly 6degC on Saturday followed by a 10degC on Sunday with heavy rain.  It's got to be floods where some of us are running

  • JF50 - even their enthusiasm is waning image

    Stutyr - I could shuffle days for sure.  I'm always in a dilemma when I get the beginnings of a cold.  Sometimes a good run seems to obliterate a cold, but not always.  If I leave it until tomorrow, I might be feeling a sight worse.  I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

  • JF50 wrote (see)

    Yes I've had a look at the forecast here for the next 5 days, cold till Friday then suddenly 6degC on Saturday followed by a 10degC on Sunday with heavy rain.  It's got to be floods where some of us are running

    eek, don't say the f-word! I think I've used up my quota of 'wading through crotch-deep floodwater' already this year and it probably wouldn't simulate race conditions very accurately... 

    12 mile ML run for me tonight, though I won't worry too much about specific distance as it'll partly be the club run and will depend on the route.

    Ten - if it was me I'd stick to the schedule if you feel up to it, because I did shuffle runs around one week and it was fine but added up to harder work than doing them in order. It wasn't a disaster though.

  • Thanks Literatin.  I'm going for it now.... before I change my mind image

  • Hope it gets milder at your end, stu! It's supposed to be -14 here by the weekend and I am getting a tad sick of this winter lark. Can it be spring now please?

    Ziggy: how does one do strides on the treadmill? Finger on the speed up button hanging on for dear life? I reckon I would have fallen off image. Well done for managing them!

    11.2 miles done in the freezing cold. I found a 1 mile long stretch of pavement where the snow was relatively compact and not too slippery. So I ran it up and down, up and down ... almost as boring as the treadie but I had Marathontalk to listen to. Glad this one is ticked off.

    Night Nurse wrote (see)

    Chick..hi  image after all the Hadding you should be in tip top form..

    I was NN! And then I got ill. Now I'm slow & shit again image

    Hiya NP! Not sure I can cope with another forum fred ... I may say hi and disappear again though image

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Wow lots of reading back image

    Great runs yesterday for HeOw, Ziggy, Fiona, NN, Go Caz.

    15 West agree about the VO2 max interval sessions on the treadmill I know over the next few months I will be getting some in I also find the heat prepares you for a warm April. Last year I ran the last month with extra tops on as we don't get the heat as soon as the south of England.

    JF50 nice recovery run.

    Mennania hope the 12 mile run is on ice free ground.

    Stutyr nice run in virgin snow, if you can't go fast go longimage MIld but wet this weekend image

    Ten enjoy your MLR get it done and out the wayimage

    Literatin enjoy your 12mile MLR with the club tonight.

    Chick well done on your 11.2 mile run in the cold.

    Well 13.5 mile MLR done splits: 8:20 7:42 7:11 6:49 6:26 6:25 6:23 6:32 7:30 7:14 6:45 7:33 8:14 5:07 so happy with that, 2 pairs of gloves 2 hats ice on the ground for the first and last couple of miles. But happy to run at some sort of pace. image
  • No Pain wrote (see)
    Last year I ran the last month with extra tops on as we don't get the heat as soon as the south of England.

    I did that for some of my runs last year too.  Waste of effin' time, that was! image  The only way I could have prepared for marathon day was to move the treadmill into the shower (cold water, of course) and borrow a jet-engine fan.  Then put the treadmill on 4:00 hour marathon pace to simulate the 4:30 pacer - who I assume had left his watch at home.

  • 11m MLR done and dusted on the treadmill image

    Planned pace: 10:48 to 9:54       Heart Rate Range: 141 – 160 bpm

    Splits: 10:43/10:31/10:22/10:20/10:21/10:10/10:00/9:50/9:50/9:50/9:50

    HR:      122 / 132 / 138  / 141  / 143 / 146  / 148 / 151/ 153 / 154/ 159 bpm

    I ran the first 8 miles at 0.5% incline, then increased to 1% in miles 9 and 10, then finally 1.5% in the final mile. The reasoning being to push my heart rate to the top end of the range at the end of the run, without going above the target pace.  The temperature in the garage was 42F at the start, and 50F when I finished. Feel the burn! image

    I'm dreading the weekend 18m run if I can't get outside! Rain, wind and flooding is starting to sound desirable image.

  • was planning on running home tonight, but last minute plans tonight meant that i had to squeeze in my run at lunchtime, so did a 9mile run with first 4mi around 9:30m/m and then 5mi at an average 8:34m/m.

    The actual mile splits for the last 5 miles varied from 8:10 to 8:50 as I slowed down and sped up and negotiated bits of ice still left on the regents canal towpath. plus i find pacing a bit of a dark art at the best of times, so consistent pacing when there are any kind of onstacles is pretty hard for me to judge. i guess that comes with experience.

    still, pretty pleased with the run. recovery jog to look forward to tomorrow.

  • this running lark is not easy if the weather doesn't play ball. Well done Tenjiso and AG.

    Aaargh, hate pacers that are incapable of pacing image. Happened to me too. A group of us tried desparately to hang on to him ... almost impossible ...  then asked him if he was sure he was the 3:30 pacer, because the pace was more like 2:30 ....

  • NP - great pace on your 13.5 mile run!  Were you wearing road shoes or trail shoes?  It's nice to know I'm not the only one who wore two pairs of gloves and two hats on my last outdoor run image  

    AG - well done on making time to run.

    Thanks Chickadee.  No pacer is better than one who makes go too fast.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Ten well done on your run nice splits I'm sure your 18 mile run will be ok at the weekend. I wore my normal road shoes as there was only ice about at the start and end of the run.

    AG well done on the lunch time effort well done enjoy your recovery run tomorrow.

    Chick I remember that happening in Barcelona and couldn't keep up with the 3 hr pacer who was running at 6:25 pace image
  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Chick I also remember doing VLM in 2010 and using my Garmin thinking I was well on for my first sub 3 hour marathon only to come in at 3:02 the reason was lost signal in tunnels and around a certain building image so I looked around for a fool proof solution to this and a guy on Fetch posted this and I have used it ever since as it works:

    We probably all know someone who has got to the closing stages of a race, thinking they???ve used their Garmin to pace themselves perfectly to dip under a certain time, only to find they miss out because ???the course was long???, or tunnels, underpasses and the like mean their Garmin lost signal and threw the pace number out of the window.

    It doesn???t have to happen that way. Even on a course with tunnels, or with inaccurate mile markers, or even on a long course(*), you can set up your Garmin in such a way as to always know how you???re doing in the race, rather than get the nasty surprise at the end. I???ve been asked to explain on threads and fmails several times, so I thought I???d stick it here for posterity.

    On the screen you???re going to look at while racing, you need to have at least these two data fields displayed:

    a) Pace ??? Lap

    b) Time ??? Average Lap

    And you also need to switch AutoLap off. And AutoPause too, if you use that normally.

    You then need to hit the Lap button at each mile marker.

    So within each mile, you look at ???Pace ??? Lap??? to see how you???re doing just for this mile (don???t use Pace (current) for this, it changes too frequently).

    And for the race as a whole, you can see your situation by comparing ???Time ??? Average Lap??? to your goal pace.

    And that???s it. This will work for races with tunnels, skyscrapers, tight turns, inaccurate mile markers ??? anything. As an illustration:

    Say you???re trying to break 90min for a HM. So you need to run better than 6:52min/mile average for the 13.11 mile course.

    Without doing what I suggest above:

    If you steady pace mile one with your Garmin pace field showing 6:50m/m, but the Garmin distance at the first mile marker is 1.01m ??? then you???ll actually pass the mile marker in 6:54 (but the Garmin will have beeped at 6:50 with AutoLap).

    If every mile goes by like this, going by Gamin pace alone you???ll think you???ve cracked the 90min, but you???ll actually come home in around 90:50. The GPS distance will record 13.24m, and you might think the course was long (although it almost certainly wasn???t).

    That would be pretty frustrating, since you might think you???d paced it perfectly. It???s even more frustrating when the margin is closer, if the Garmin ???over-read??? on distance is less than the 1% above.

    If the same runner sets up the Garmin as above:

    Pass mile one, hit lap manually ??? they know that the first mile was 6:54, not 6:50. The field ???Time ??? Average Lap??? says 6:54m/m. They???re slower than 6:52 target pace and are aware of it. Until they speed up and this field reads better than 6:52, they???re still behind the pace.

    If you miss a mile marker, this method is not screwed up either ??? you just need to make a lap somewhere, even if it???s not accurate. As long as you have pressed lap X times when you pass the X mile marker, the field ???Time ??? Average Lap??? will be your average pace in the race to this point (it???s basically doing the same calculation you would do if you took total time and divided it by total race distance at that point).

    Forget about Virtual Partner; since the GPS measure of distance isn???t (sufficiently) reliable you can see why that isn???t a reliable method.

    (*) Officially measured courses are not long, even if your Garmin says it is. GPS cannot be relied upon to be accurate to better than 1-2% t
  • Thanks NP, that's really useful as I hadn't thought of tunnels!

    Did my 12 mile MLR tonight in 1:36. 4 miles by myself, 7 with the club, then 1 mile to get home, all at a nice steady pace. I can tell I'm going to enjoy 'recovery week'!

  • Evening..just back from run..

    Chick I am sure you are not shit ..sorry to hear you haven't been well, hope you are fully recovered now.

    AG well done on fitting that run in when you weren't expecting too, there are so any non runners that make the excuse that they don't have the time to exercise , this thread proves where there is a will there really is a way.

    NP nice even splits I will read and digest your last post properly later..looks long !!

    Ten you amaze me ..all that treadmill running , loving the hr stats very nice !! great pace and well done on controlling the hr , that's what I try to do start at low end and push it up towards the end, while staying in the correct zone.I hope you don't have to do that 18 on the treddy 

    Literatin well done on the 12 miler . I was going to run a bit of mine with my club but wanted to control pace a bit, it tends to get anbit silly and competitive sometimes, I shall do 16 with the at the weekend though.

    12 MILES 1 hour 45

    9.20..9.06..8.49...8.56...8.52.. 8.46...8.53...8.44...8.36..8.36...8.32..8.29..
    AVE HR 74.9% 

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Literatin well done on your run and a nice time for the distance. image

    NN great run and nice even splits. image
  • NP - I also do London with my Garmin and it will always show more than the 26.2. There are two causes both with simple scientific explanations.

    First you lose the signal in the underpasses. This will only significantly affect your Garmin if you have "autopause" switched on. If you have autopause on when you enter the tunnel it assumes you have stopped and stops the clock, starting it again when you come out. This is a "schoolboy error" and easily solved by just making sure autopause is "OFF"

    The second reason is that amongst high building like around Canary Wharf the Garmin picks up false readings from the top of the buildings and assumes you have climbed to that height instantaneously!!! This gives you some pretty impressive spurious paces and more importantly extra distance that you haven't run. 

    Neither of these is really a Garmin "fault" and as devices they are pretty accurate.

    I run off of my Garmin pace for most of the race. If at the 22 mile marker my Garmin says 22.2 then I just do a little bit of mental correction. After all the stopwatch on your Garmin and the mile markers will always be right. 

    Happy memories of VLM 2010 - my first sub 3 and you certainly seem to be in sub 3 shape at the moment


  • NP thanks for posting that, i'd heard of doing that before but thats the best explanation I've read of it and will certainly use it at VLM.

    Ran a progressive 14 tonight starting at 8.00 min miles then increasing pace by 10 sec each mile and finishing  last 2 @6.50 mm. First progressive i've done for a while and enjoyed it. 

    Snow nearly gone here now so back to all road running thankfully.

    A lot of good running being posted on the thread- inspiring as always!

  • Evening all.

    Well 5 miles recovery happily done tonight in 50:35. HR stayed at about 60% the whole time.

    NN - nice splits.

    NP - I think I've just about grasped what to do with that info.

    Ten - good run. The treadmill really is a struggle.

    Literatin - good run

    AG - well done on the quick change in plans. I have similar problems with pacing sometimes.
  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    Ziggy - I have not got to grips with programming the gym treadmill. I just press Quick Start and off I go. So I think I will leave the strides for outdoors.

    Tenjiso - Wow. 12 miles on the treadmill sounds like torture. Well done.

    No Pain - Useful info. I set up my Garmin like that, having read a post on RW a while ago. Good for VLM.
  • Love seeing how everyone is following this program!  Probably the most motivating training thread I've followed.

    NN - Great 12m run! I'm finding the treadmill running harder since I've started running outdoors more frequently.

    NP - thanks for the reminder of those garmin settings.

    I've personally had more success in recent races (10k and half-marathon so far) using the current lap pace and current (immediate) pace.  The former is pretty accurate once I get past 0.25m in the lap, and the latter is simply to help if I find I need to get back on pace.  I try not to think about what has gone before and concentrate on hitting pace on the current lap.  The reason being that my pacing goes all over the place if I try to make up time, or slow down, in an attempt to average out my pace.  By concentrating on my current lap, in general my pacing as a whole is improved.

    I have considered using the "autolap off" method in races, but I have a habit of missing mile markers image   Also, the MK marathon last year has taught me that the official mile markers are not gospel (re-routed course due to floods).

    Caz - my treadmill has a squillion options, but I always use "manual" and adjust speed and incline according to my own plan.  Once you know your top speed for strides it's a simple matter of setting that speed during the run, because it takes the treadmill about 0.03 miles to get up to the new speed (simulating the acceleration that is required) and a similar distance to slow back down again at the end of the strides.  

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Morning all.

    Did my mid week MLR of 12 mi yesterday. Cold it was. Come on Spring!

    5 easy ones today.

    Starting to feel knackered now. Remember this from last time followed schedule, feeling knackered all the time. Still, got to be good for you, right?

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