P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Thanks both Marks. I have toyed with just settling for a 3.10 GFA goal as its my first crack at the marathon. But I kind of think, well if I'm doing all this training and putting all these miles in I may as well shoot big (even if I fail in the process). After reading the advice I'll probably step back on the training paces a little, especially as the next few weeks are just about to get quite intense. I think its going to be a case of reassessing nearer the time to see whats realistic - as I've learned from experience with the halves to date, any injury and its back to the drawing board!

    Anyway, enough about me... How is everyone's recovery week going (for those on the 18/70). ?


  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I'm knackered.


  • MarkfMarkf ✭✭✭

    Haha 15w, i've been dozing off sat here after tonights run and busy at work, very rock n roll! Hope your work worries sort out.

    Chris think you got things well thought through. Slower pace on GA runs do help both in terms of slow muscle twitch fibres and keeping fresh for quality work. 

    I swapped recovery (kind of) to last week ahead of a cancelled half and doing last weeks plan this week!

  • Not feeling too bad myself..I make sure the recovery days are really easy and run by HR all the time to make sure, if it tells me too 10 min mile I 10 min mile, then feel nice and fresh for the harder longer runs.

    First time in 6 weeks I have ignored schedule today image A very easy 8.5 in 1 hour 18 tonight (instead of MLR 11miles ) all 70% method in that madness is I am doing this weeks LSR tomorrow with my club, schedule says 14 on Sunday but they are doing 16 and its about time I was sociable.image

    Lots to read back busy thread ...hope the weather doesn't stop anyone this weekend, some great running ans impressive paces going on

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Some nice running going on peeps most getting ready for long runs over the weekend image

    Chris J77 you didn't say when you did the half marathon but as your training will increase in volume and the tempo sessions increase I don't see any reason why you can't go Sub 3 in your first marathon. This weekend will be my 3rd 20 mile run this is where I my plan is a bit different from P&D I will keep running 20 mile runs and increase to 22/23 miles and as I get used to running them every weekend every other weekend I will put more MP into them. Also my Saturday run which includes a large hill will increase from 10 miles to 12. The Tempo and interval sessions are great to increase the lactate threshold but where most people fall down is on the endurance, been able to keep going when your tired and by doing more long runs not only are you teaching your body to cope and improve your it's endurance but by increasing the MP miles at the end of the long run your imprinting the brain that it can pick up the pace when the body is tired. After all if you think your tired you will feel tired but if you think I've done this x times in training with no ill effects you will be able to pick up the pace or keep it up ( brain training or central governor training) If you just run long and slow all the time all your doing is training your self to run long and slow and it's a massive ask to run MP if you haven't in training.

    1 mile swim for me today and 6 miles recovery run, run up and over my hill tomorrow for 12 miles image
  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    AgentGinger - re your point about the changing around of the days over the coming weeks, I see what you mean. The structure of the week suits me at the moment and I don't think it'll be that easy for me to change it all around. However, surely it can't be all that crucial when you do which sessions as long as you don't do too many hard ones back to back? I don't think there is any secret formula in the order either! Elsewhere in this book the authors say they only specify what to do on which day of the week following requests from readers.
  • NP I was actually considering adding a couple of miles tomorrow..or maybe 4 to make it an extra 20..good idea or not  ?? as it meant to be a recovery week....I have run easy all week though..are a couple of extra 20s during the schedule beneficial or detrimental ?

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    My works worries were unfounded. Message to self - don't check work emails just before going to bed. Think I'll sleep well tonight. Hope so anyway.

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    NN it's up to you we are after all an experiment of oneimage I know I would.
  • Well I have a good few hours to kill before I go to work at 2.30 pm tomorrow, the run starts at 9, so 16 will be done in under 2 and half hours .. so I guess I have answered my own question..image..best get a decent sleep..

  • That all sounds like good plan NP, one thing i noticed when I first looked at the p&d schedule was that the long runs looked a bit light on mileage.

    My original plan was to be doing 20+ every 3 weekends out of 4. Some runs might be a bit shorter when i do the long marathon paced runs though.

    I think you are right about trying to toughen yourself up mentally before the race as well.

    I remember Chrissie Wellington saying in an interview that its important to get used pushing yourself hard in training to the point where it really hurts, then when it gets tough in the race you dont panic because youve been there before.


  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Blimey - you lots are crazy. I'm sticking to the plan.

  • But where P&D schedules appear to lack in 20 milers they make up in lots of mid week and even friday MLRS..there aren't many if any schedules, that have you running well into double figures 3 time every week, so there are a lot of over all miles...just not sure if the extra 20s would have a negative affect on subsequent sessions..or not..

  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭

    Hi All,

    Just discovered this thread. After a long break after my last marathon attempt (last year was a write off from all running) I'm back into it and signed up for London. I've decided to give the P&D 55-70 programme a go but cut a couple weeks off the 18 week plan to make it fit. Currently on week 4 and managed to pick up a muscle strain from pushing the speed session a bit too hard. So unfortunately after 3 great weeks this week has been a disappointment. I was starting to think my body can't handle such high mileage and considering swapping one of the MLRs for a long cycle instead. Although reading quickly through the last couple of pages makes me wonder if i'm just pushing too hard in all of my runs including recovery runs. Will need to do some real thinking about how to proceed.

    Anyway, looks like a very busy forum and looking forward to following everyone else's progress. Hope everyone's training is going well.



  • MarkfMarkf ✭✭✭

    I agree on the lack of 20 and 20+ miles in the schedule, i'm adding to give a total of 8 before tapering with 2 at duration. Am convinced the more comfortable the 20 is ahead of race day the easier the last 6 will be.

    Snowing really hard here now so morning planned run may have to be replanned. 

  • MarkfMarkf ✭✭✭

    Forgot to say welcome Alan. Staying niggle free is very important at this stage and holding back on pace to stay injury free is the best bet as mileage ramps up.

  • Well if you lot are ..so will I 

    Welcome Alan..yes slow down you should be able to absorb the extra miles at the right pace..

  • Welcome Alan!

    Its been snowing quite heavy here for the last few hours and the ground is covered again.

    Im totally fed up with this weather now, i tapered all week last week for a race that was cancelled, the plan this weekend was to do the marathon paced long run that i missed last week and it looks like that is out of the window now! image

  • MarkfMarkf ✭✭✭

    There's always the treadmill Mark image

    Seriously though am also fed up with having to fix runs round the weather. Think the snow should have gone by Sunday round our way so maybe okay for the mp run then?

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    No Pain - 'experiment of one' is a good way to put it. I guess there's a fine line between pushing yourself harder to achieve improvement and going so hard that it becomes detrimental, and that line must be different for each of us. I aim to do 16 on Sunday as last week's run was only 13 due to the snow. I plan to put in some MP but will see how it goes. Happy running everyone!
  • Thanks NP (and others) for the encouragement. My half of 1.22 was back in October. Exactly a year after my first half which I ran in 1.32. The 1.22 was v unexpected, but everything just clicked on the day. That was off a base of 30 - 40 miles a week and with no real structure. I am hoping the p and d structure and increased mileage will give good results for the longer distance.

    10 GA miles done tonight (I'm a late night runner) at 7.20 ave pace. Felt pretty good and even wore a hr (ave was 160, which is low for me). Made sure I backed off anytime I approached sub 7.00 pace and felt pretty good at the end. Although absolutely soaked through. We have gone from snow to floods in two days - the finish line had better be worth all this pain! image
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭
    Night Nurse wrote (see)

    Well if you lot are ..so will I 

    Me too then!

    Welcome Alan - hope that strain doesn't hinder you too much. Not sure how much mileage and speedwork you were doing before starting on week 4; but important not to do too much too quickly.

    Some snow here in Manchester too, not too much though. By this time tomorrow it will all be gone.

  • Hang on 15w just a few posts ago you were saying we are crazy..my you are easliy led..image

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Yeah...I guess I'm crazy too.

  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭

    Hi folks,

    Thanks for the words of encouragement, the strain does seem to have eased. I went for a 5 mile easy run (although after reading your previous comments, i may need to reconsider my 'easy pace') yesterday and felt no pain.

    You'd think after four years of running i'd have learned to be a bit more sensible in my training but no, not me. Not yet. I had thought it would be ok to try and continue the speed sessions at my running club whilst following this programme. So, for example, the session in which i strained the muscle, the programme had me down for 9 miles with 10 x 100m strides. I thought it would be ok to swap in the club session of 5 x 1 mile (hilly). Tired legs and hilly mile reps don't go very well together I quite quickly remembered and before i knew it my knee cap had disappeared under a swollen mass and i was left sitting on the couch for the next few days thinking what a daft idea that was..

    Oh well, never mind, i'm sure this won't be the last time my stupidity will be highlighted on this forum.

    No long run for me this weekend, planning on taking the bike out as the snow has disappeared and will also try another run of slightly longer distance.

    Happy running.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    7m GA+Speed session on the treadie today, which included 8x100m Strides.

    In an ideal world, my head cold and the icy ground will both be gone in time for 18m LR tomorrow!  Here's hoping.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Ice should be gone - may be a lot of water around though. My 5 mile run was a mixure of ice and slush this morning, came back with very wet feet.

  • AlanBAlanB ✭✭✭

    9 miles on grass for me this morning with 10 x 100m strides across one of the football pitches. Pain free - woohoo!!

    Beautiful morning as well, the snow has completely cleared and the sun was shining. I even had to ditch the hat and gloves half way through the run! image

  • Just back from 4 miles recovery. Beautiful day, but lots of slush from snow that had fallen last night. I also had very wet feet.
  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Well done for everyone getting out in the cold, rain, snow and ice.

    For me it was 12 miles up and over my hill and home 4 up 4 down 4 undulating apart from the ice going up and coming down I enjoyed the run. Supporting the OH hobby today shoppingimage will get the legs walked of me lol. Long run tomorrow forecast is heavy rain.
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