P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Great Race NP! image

    And great 21 milers coming in also! 6.30am starts and all! Good running image

    I set out for my 18, was meeting a friend at mile 5 to do a few miles together and then finish off on my own. I got cramp in my right hamstring after 3 miles, had to walk a bit before the 5 miles was up and seriously considered calling it a day. Met with my friend and decided to try another two or three miles before making a decision, ended up doing 8 with her then finishing off the last 5. The cramp wouldn't go, I stopped and stretched a few times and ended up just finding a pace where it wasn't too painful so I could carry on. I am pleased to get the miles done, average in the end was 10.20, I was aiming for more like 10.

    I am wondering if I would benefit from a sports massage but have never had one before image 

  • I'm with you Mark on the gels. I tend to need them and notice a difference on long runs if I don't take any. I took 3 today for my 21 miler and will probably be planning to take 6 on race day (one every half hour and one at the start). My wife won't be coming near me for at least a week after that!

    Definately worth giving the sports massage a go Pottermiss. I've only had it a couple of times and its been beneficial. Hopefully if its anything they cant fix they can reccomend a good physio that can look at it if you need - but hopefully it will clear up. Which reminds me, my Sciatica has really not liked todays long run and is now in full effect. Great!

  • Pottermiss, I definitely think sports massage is worth trying. I first had it ages ago after I strained something in my thigh while trying to do splits (don't ask). It hurts, and I thought he was going to rip my leg off, but it did get better! At other times (like recently) it's been really useful for identifying exactly where the tightness is that's causing problems, which isn't always where the cramp is. Also good for learning new stretches that target the right areas.

    Re. gels, I am going to try them as I haven't before, and might need them on longer distances than I have yet, but I've never noticed myself run out of energy on a long run (up to 20 miles) before. Presumably you take them before you run out of energy, but then how would you know if you were going to? I don't l like sweets or artificial flavours at ALL, so that might be where the suffering for my training comes in!

  • Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24 
    April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00 
    April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50
    April 21 - 15West, No Pain - VLM - Sub 2.55 
    April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner - VLM -Sub 3.00 
    April 21 - Stutyr - VLM - Sub 3:15 
    April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40 
    April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50 
    April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00
    April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.15 (would love a 4.10!) 

    I just thought I would bring this forward as there are a few new ones on here now, feel free to add image

    Yes I think I will look into the sports massage, it might help, I could ask for recommendations at running club. Sciatica can be very painful, my OH suffers it regularly and gives it as a reason for not trying this running thing, I hope it's not too bad Chris.


  • Feel free to add me at having a crack at sub 3 Potter miss (even if I fail spectacularly!). And on that note, change yours to 4.10!! - you never know if you don't give it a try. Aim high!

    The Sciaitica is usually only really bad after runs - especially long ones. During the run it is managable, but noticable. Its just something I have learned to put up with I guess. I enjoy running too much to not do it, so put up with it and so far nobody has been able to remedy it for me.

  • Oh, good idea, Pottermiss, as I'd lost track of everyone's goals. But I'll wait (superstitiously) to add myself till I get back to training and see if I can still do it!

    Re. cramp, I've just remembered (with amazing hindsight vision), that when I was training for my first half I had a similar problem with pain in my left thigh during a run, would stop and stretch, then it would come back and I'd have to stretch again. Went and told my pilates teacher about it, she taught me two glute stretches I hadn't known before, I started doing them regularly and it never happened again. Am now realising that's sort of similar to what's happened to me now -- a couple of years later, upped the training mileage again for a bigger event than I'm used to, but kept stretching about the same, and got very tight again. The moral of the story seems to be: increase stretching/massage in proportion to increasing everything else.

  • On gels, one can take too many.  I used five at the MK marathon and felt a bit sick towards the end.  Had to stop for 30 seconds at mile 23 to recover.

  • I did my 18m this morning with an average pace of 7:59m/m. The 1st 9 miles averaged  about 8.15m and then I gradually increased the pace over the 2nd 9 miles. Didn't even consider trying to do any at PMP. 

    It all felt a bit of a struggle but I think that was just due to yesterday's 5k exertion and the after effects of a sports massage which had left my legs a bit tender in a few places. I think I'll make sure that my legs are a bit fresher for next weeks long run.

    Pottermiss, don't let that put you off booking one. I'd definitely recommend that you go for a sports massage. I try to have one every 4-6 weeks.

    I've no idea on how to add my target time to the list without breaking the formatting so can someone add me to it?

    I'm aiming for sub 3:30 at VLM and then sub 3:15 at Edinburgh on the 26th of May.

  • Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24 
    April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00 
    April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50
    April 21 - 15West, No Pain - VLM - Sub 2.55 
    April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner, Chris J77 - VLM -Sub 3.00 
    April 21 - Stutyr - VLM - Sub 3:15 
    April 21 - ZiggyThe Spider - VLM - Sub 3:30 (May 26 - Edinburgh - Sub 3:15)
    April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40
    April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50
    April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00
    April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.10 (well why not!)


    I think I've done it right image

  • Super running from everyone this morning. Most of you were finished before I had started. Sunday is the one day I don't get up at 5:30 or 6:00.

    It was surprisingly warm here this morning but windy again so had to battle all the way home. It felt difficult but pace and hr ok. So 18 miles in 2:53, average pace 9:40/ mile. Hr only went too high when running uphill into the wind.

    Pottermiss - I hope the cramp settles.

    Lit - I took my first ever gel before I went out on a shortish run just to make sure there were no stomach effects. It also helps to practise taking them as there is an art to it! I only use a couple when training but use every 5 miles in the marathon.

    NP - well done at the 10 k it sounds like it was a good day out for everybody.

    NN 5:30 on a Sunday. Well at least the roads would be quiet.
  • Wow lots of reading backimage

    15West well done on the muddy 22 how did the cold bath go? more miles into the bankimage

    Lit SIS gels are good I find them easy to take and carry and not as thick as the High five gels but they also pack more carbs.image If you think of your body as a car that need fuel but it can only take fuel on at a slow rate (this is due to your stomach only able to absorbe fluid and carbs at a certain rate when exercising as blood supply is diverted to other parts of the body) At 20 you start to run out of fuel but if you wait till you run out your body wont absorb the carbs fast enough so you need to start before this happens. By topping up from the start you will prevent the body from running out as you are giving it longer to absorb the carbs. I tend to take them:1, 20 mins before the start, 6,12,16,20,24 miles and sip water every 3 miles . Hope that explains it a bitimage

    NN Great 21 miles in the bank and a neg/split over the whole run nice, like you I went back to bed after my run after all it's Sundayimage.

    Men well done on your 21 yesterday, cant do the thick head thing any more image

    Chris J77 impressive 21 and a nice boost with the sub 7 min miles well done.imageis it from the periformus muscle lots of good stretches on you tube for itimage

    Surry well done on the 21 miles, regarding gels I used 6 last time in London.image

    Mark 1981 well done on the 20 mile runimage

    Pottermiss well done on the 18 today, you could try a cold bathimage but sometimes we can find we can run through some aches and pains but go easy. You could also invest in a good foam roller I tend to spend 20 mins a night in front of the tv stretching and using the foam roller.

    Ziggy nice 18 mile run and neg split well doneimage Edinburgh is down hillimage

    Well did 22 miles and did'nt get wet from the rain image 22 miles 2:52 all nice and easy and no gel today. Went back to bed after my cold bath and hot showerimage













  • FionaJ well done on the 18 miles cross post image
  • well done long runners..some great times and I enjoyed  reading everyone's experiences  
    Mark 1981, I a with you 100% as far the gels go..they are there to use , not illegal , take them simple
    Surrey Runner..my son lives in Surrey I love running with him up there its so flat compared to these Devon hills.
    Pottermiss a massage is worth a try I have never had one myself nor used foam rollers there is some good advice from Literatin give the stretches a try hope its ok tomorrow
    Fiona nice 18...and today is the only day ever I have got up at that to to run...I was actually surprised to see quite a few runners about o be honest
    NP I use the sis gels too, and refule within 20 mins 
    with Promax protein bar and 500mls milk..no cold bath just nice HOT shower for me and I could have stood there all day..
    I slept for 5 hours , it was the shock of the early start more than the 21 ..lol..getting ready for work now

  • I tried an ice bath after my run this afternoon, filled the bath up with cold water and a few trays of ice cubes. I psyched myself up for a few minutes and then walked into the bathroom like a boxer walking into the ring for a big fight.

    Got into the bath, sat there for about 30 seconds and then jumped out like a wimp.

    With a few words of encouragement from my girlfriend i decided to have another go, i was determined to give it a better effort this time. I get in again sit down and grit my teeth but i couldnt do it, i was out again after about 20 seconds this time. Its just too cold!

    NP How the hell do you do it?

    Im a wimp image

  • Hi NN,

    Not that flat, there was 180m of elevation on my 21 miler this morning!

    Use the sis gels. Think it was the high fives at MK that made me feel dodgy.

    Stayed in the cold bath for about five mins. I feel better on Mondays for it.

    Had a massage once after the Maidenhead half in September. Less pain the following day so must have done some good.
  • Mark - I tried the cold bath yesterday and managed about 10 seconds in it - up to my ankles and that was enough - not a cat in hells chance of me dipping my bits in that. Cant imagine anything worse after 21 miles or so - I think you have to be a certain type of sadist to run marathons, but to sit in ice cold baths straight after you have to have a particularly penchant for painimage.

  • LOL at Mark 1981 your only a young buck but take it from me it works you will be able to cover come the initial shock. image and your legs will feel great after it.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I reckon I managed a couple of minutes. Mark - maybe leave the ice cubes next time!

  • Did you remember the tea?
  • I've done cold bathing once, at a thermal spa in Baden Baden. Difference was, it was big enough to jump around in to counteract some of the horrific cold, and you could go and get straight back in the nice warm bath straight after. No tea, though.

  • I often run the bath with enough cold water to just cover my legs and sit in it with my running top still on so I don't freeze to death and the husband finds me with rigor mortis and just let the cold water do its stuff after a particularly hard run. No need to put yer bollocks in it though (even though I don't possess a set).  You could wear speedos chaps... Then have a hot shower to bring everything back to normal proportions. image

    Literatin - re gels: I use SIS and HiFive, just whatever I can get at the time from nearby shops.  I think I prefer the SIS but both work well for me.  I had one at mile 7 and 13 yesterday of my run.  I only truly see the point of running with no fuel if you aim to do the same on race day.  I think the harder part is sticking to the routine on the day of the marathon, with nerves etc, it is hard to take on board gels from mile 18 onwards.  I also sip water every mile or so but don't drink more than around 400ml in the winter on long run.  Summer a different story! 

    Cracking running today folks, 15 and NoP, are you two handbags at dawn to see who can do the most miles before brunch...?! image

    NN - brilliant.  Is that Heart Rate reserve or max?  I am annoyed with my HRM at the mo, it had my HR at 250 max for 2 miles yesterday and wrecks my overall percentage.  Do you find yours plays up for first mile or so?  I might need to put some lube on my strap on... 

    Mennania - Wrexham Half for me also, are you ready for it?  I ain't! 

    Feeling good today, legs feeling very fresh after 18 yesterday so proves to me that my pace was spot on.  I am currently following the sub 55 but doing the long runs as per the 55-70.  I think it should work well for me.  I am wondering whether to do the MLR run as per the 55-70 too, so do the recovery runs and LT session as per sub 55 and the longer medium run and LSR of the 55-70.  Complicated I know but I think that longer medium run would give me some more benefits and if I am strict re not adding too many hills in and keep HRM on, I can definitely do it. Thinking aloud here. Excuse me. image

  • I remembered the tea NP but it made no difference unless i'd poured it into the bath! I managed no more than a couple of mins and that was with no ice just cold water.

    Reading back some brilliant and inspiring long runs going on today. NN if you were first back then I was last back. Felt tired this morn after the switched LT yest and it was still v windy here so didn't set out until just after 4. 18 with 10 mp in 2hr 16 and i took 1 gel (also use SiS) just before the mp miles.

    NP very well raced yesterday image

    Lit are you going for your first comeback run tomorrow? If so good luck.

    15W you got the puppy yet?


  • I might have to try it without the ice cubes next week!

    The cup of tea didnt help either image

    Markf - Are you doing a half marathon in the build up? I wasnt going to bother but im thinking of doing Blackpool later this month. Im going to be in Liverpool that weekend so i though i might give it a go. Im just a bit worried about the following week being a write off if im tired.

    Superbowl tonight, so ive got a giant pizza and a big bottle of coke to myself cant wait!

  • Yes I've entered B'pool Mark, its still 8 weeks out before VLM so i shouldn't worry about having a lighter week after.

    Superbowl for me too later, will be supporting the Ravens.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭
    HeOw wrote (see)

    I often run the bath with enough cold water to just cover my legs and sit in it with my running top still on so I don't freeze to death and the husband finds me with rigor mortis and just let the cold water do its stuff after a particularly hard run. No need to put yer bollocks in it though (even though I don't possess a set).  You could wear speedos chaps... Then have a hot shower to bring everything back to normal proportions. image

    my poor bollocks, not sure they've fully recovered yet. WIll speedos make that much difference??

    NP - I had a cup of hot water, not tea. Drank it pretty quickly.

    markf - we'll be bringing the puppy home in about 3 weeks. Scary stuff.

    How are people's legs? Mine are aching somewhat. Been eating loads today - one thing I really love about running is stuffing myself guilt free.

    We've got some unpleasant running conditions in the next few days.

  • Cold water does wonders if you suffer from chaffing.....

  • Markf - Yeah im supporting the Ravens tonight as well, i know the bookies have them down as the underdogs but i think its fate for Ray Lewis to win in his final game.

    I need to look at my programme and see if I can juggle things around to fit Blackpool half in.

    15West - My legs feel great at the moment, ive been really tired this week after last weekends MP LR but today was fine, I did go at a slightly slower pace than normal though.

    Im stuffing myself today, its great isnt it image

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    I tried a cold bath once but found it excruciating - I really could not stand more than a couple of seconds it was so painful! Also the jury seems to be out on whether they are effective or not. Compression tights and maybe some Cherry Active would be my less masochistic alternative. Did 19 miles today with a couple at MP (I am improvising around the schedule a bit!) and it went well. I took two gels. As has been said here already I think, I cannot see the point of training yourself to run without them if you are then going to need to use them in the marathon.
  • Heow its % of max so really pleased..which hrm do you have ?..give it a good wash then try cleaning the connections with vinegar, that always workd if mine has had a funny 5 mins.,

    And lol...no need to  put yer bollocks in it though (even though I don't possess a set).  You could wear speedos chaps... Then have a hot shower to bring everything back to normal proportions. image Heow...you have such a great way with words...

  • Phew will need to catch up with all the posts, just need to get some work done first!  18.1 miles for me yesterday in 2.36.  Paces all pretty much where I wanted them, about 9.15 averages for the first 5, 8.35ish for the next 10 and then just ran a bit faster but still comfortable for the last 3 at about 8 when I got back to flat roads and trail.  Still not 100% sure of my MP, could I take it down byt 5 or 10 seconds?

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