P + D training for VLM 2013

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Comments

  • AR - we are near enough !!
  • I ran my first 30 mile week last week, ran a 12mile LR recently and have a race (13.1miles) in just over a week so I should be fine for the 18/55. There's a good chance I'll try and run a few extra easy miles extra anyway because I'm not massively confident the 18/55 plan will get me the sub-3h I am aiming for.

  • SS- what's your back ground in terms of race times? Guess you must be pretty experienced for an assault on sub 3.
  • Ship-star: what time you aiming for in your HM? Which one is it? Sounds like you'd be fine for the 18/55 but I agree you may want to be swapping out some sessions from the 18/70 if you're feeling ok.

  • Dylan- Far from experienced I'm afraid, I have only been running for about 6months. I'm hoping that a decent sporting background will help and with youth on my side (if 26 is considered youthful) it maybe possible with 8months of training. I've ran a sub19 - 5k and sub40 - 10k quite recently.

    Al- I will be aiming to finish in under 1:28, obviously I'm not in sub-3 shape right now but I'm hoping to knock that time down to 1:23 for the Silverstone half. I have read a few times that 1:23-1:24 range is good indicator that you're in sub3 condition.

  • macemace ✭✭✭

    chick' - it sounds like a great marathon. I'd like to go back to Hamburg in the next few years as i have a good friend out there. I think maybe i'll get some cooler ones in first though, 20deg + sounds a bit harsh on the old HR image 

     

    I think you and Tek have sold the idea of 12 weeks P&D to me and i'll fill it out with plenty of HADD and chuck in a week off over XMAS. 18 weeks P&D to Brighton means a pre-XMAS start ... i'm sure i'll put in a few miles here and there over XMAS but i think a little rest around that time would be good.

  • SS- that's a great ambition to run your first marathon in sub 3 but and as you say age and fitness on your side. I'm no expert but would say that's going to take a massive amount of dedication and natural ability. Until you've tried at the longer distances who knows how you will fair. There are plenty of 1.20 half runners who struggle to break 3 but plenty of 1.25 who do. I would say a good plan would be to get your base mileage up get in half shape and then reassess realistically where you are. You say 8 months away? Which marathon are you targeting? Sounds like starting PD now is too early?
  • Dylan man wrote (see)
    AR - we are near enough !!

    DM - are you following the 5 week recovery plan from P&D. I'm closely following it but am still coming back from injury so have curtailed a couple of runs. I had a very slow 10 miles on Sunday which didn't feel great. Also trying to hang on to some of the cardio fitness with some cross training. My physio gave me a full strenghtening programme to get into before I start the next plan - went through it all yesterday, and today the hips and glutes are really feeling it.

  • Hi AR- sorry to hear your struggling a bit but not surprised with your recent results. You deserve a long lie down in a darkened room!!



    Yes, loosely following the PD recovery but have caved into temptation and ran a little quicker than recovery pace. On Saturday night I gave it a bit of a blast to see how legs were and speed levels. Ran to feel and thought I was somewhere near my Half pace of 6.15/6.20. Garmin beeped and 6.51!! Feel like I have definitely lost some pace post marathon which I guess is normal. Heart rate is normal though!



    I am targeting half on 3rd March and marathon on 7th April. Hopefully sub 3 assault to join the club.
  • Dylan- I completely appreciate that this is a very ambitious goal. I have back up targets of 3:05 (Boston qualifying) and 3:10 (London GFA) should I fail to break 3hours. I started doing "base running" about 10 weeks ago for the first time and it's about 5.5 months until the VLM so that would be 8months total training. I'm hoping that as I have ran respectable times for shorter distances off very little mileage I have good scope to improve now that I am training "properly". I signed up for the half a week Saturday for the very reason you mentioned, so I can assess my current level and see what I can do.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    mace - don't know why Germany - they tend to be fast and flat with good crowds, plus I get a week-end away without the mrs...more weeks of Hadd and you'll be chewing up the P&D MP long runs and tempos.image

    Chick - I just did Frankfurt (28/10)...I thought I'd be able to get back to pre-race paces for 70% and 75%, but my HR is just shit and won't get down - I feel like I'm where I was when I started Hadd - is this normal?

    Nice goal Ship-star! Big miles run at an aerobic pace is the key. 

    Actually managed to get out for a run tonight. Knee still not quite right and HR a little elevated still...

     

  • Can someone tell me what this Hadd thing is all about ?

    Is there a link anywhere to explain the plan to me?

    Thanks Ashman

  • Thanks Teknik

  • Ship- were you lucky enough to get a ballet place in VLM?
  • Dylan- Indeed I was, third time lucky after two previous rejections. image

     

    Six miles ticked off this evening, anybody else train tonight or are you all early birds?

  • 6 miles XC for me with head torch and very muddy. 3rd week of marathon recovery.
  • Nice easy 6 @ 8.20 pace spending a few days in Surrey  it is VERY flat here that pace seemed so easy  ..goes to show its far too hilly were I live  my pace is nearer 9s for that HR at home.

    Wont get chance to run tomorrow but hopefully 9m Thurs 12m Fri 5m Sat and 11m Sun

  • Ship-star - you're in a similar position to the one I was in six months ago - I took up running in May, quickly knocked out a sub-40 10k, and went on to do Amsterdam this October in 2:49. I loosely followed P&D 70. I say "loosely" because, inevitably, work commitments got in the way. 

    Some nice long runs and interval work and you should be fine.

     

     

  • Wow couch to sub 3 marathon in 5 months! Please share your secrets. image
  • That's good going, mxb16. Can I hazard two guesses:
    1. You are relatively young
    2. You are relatively light?

    Sadly I am no longer either, but when I was considerably younger and lighter it was all so much easier! Both, but particularly age, do make a big difference, not least in terms of recovery.

    Think positive thoughts, banish negative ideas and visualize your success
    Ale
  • mxb16 - fantastic result in a very short time,

    I think your post suggests it will come just by following the plan. It can take several years to develop the optimum conditioning for marathon running, and I would hazard that you have a fair smattering of natural ability.  Set your sights on 2:20 in the next  year or two - some nice long runs and interval work and you should be fineimage

     

  • mxb16 wrote (see)

    Ship-star - you're in a similar position to the one I was in six months ago - I took up running in May, quickly knocked out a sub-40 10k, and went on to do Amsterdam this October in 2:49. I loosely followed P&D 70. I say "loosely" because, inevitably, work commitments got in the way. 

    Some nice long runs and interval work and you should be fine.

     

     

    mxb16- Thanks for your words and that's a very impressive achievement indeed, I think it will be touch and go for me but I'm relishing the challenge.What kind of shape were you in prior to starting your training?

  • Ship- when you've completed your half in the next few weeks, you will have a really good idea where you are. A rule of thumb which appears to be more accurate than not, is 2x half time plus 20 minutes after a structured campaign of course.



    A half time of around 1.20 to 1.23 ish would give a strong indicator that a sub 3 is on. Over 1.25 would indicate probably sub 3.15 more likely.



    By the way what half are you doing first before Silverstone?
  • Ship - meant to also say another good indicator is if you can run 15 miles at MP (6.50) fairly comfortably in mid to later part of campaign, all bodes well. image
  • Thanks. Yes, mid 20s and around 178cm / 60kg, so I had age + weight on my side when I started! It also helped that I didn't get injured.

    Dylan man wrote (see)
    Wow couch to sub 3 marathon in 5 months! Please share your secrets. image

    P&D 70..., it's a brilliant book! And using a HRM so I could tell when I was really hurting and when I was just being lazy.

  • Mxb-sounds like you have massive potential to become a really competitive marathon runner. No doubt with continued commitment you will go on to sub 2.30 and win some smaller races.
  • Dylan man wrote (see)
    Mxb-sounds like you have massive potential to become a really competitive marathon runner. No doubt with continued commitment you will go on to sub 2.30 and win some smaller races.

    Thanks - we'll see how I do in Rotterdam but I'm relatively relaxed about it, it's just a hobby and if I get too competitive I'll end up not enjoying it. It's supposed to be fun after all!

    Which marathon are you targetting next?

  • Mxb - I recall that Rotterdam is a fast and flat course - sounds like a good one. Are there any tweaks or changes you are making to your plan for Rotterdam that differs much from P&D70 , or from the loose version you used for Amsterdam. Interested to know what did or didn't worked well for you.

  • Also-ran wrote (see)

    Mxb - I recall that Rotterdam is a fast and flat course - sounds like a good one. Are there any tweaks or changes you are making to your plan for Rotterdam that differs much from P&D70 , or from the loose version you used for Amsterdam. Interested to know what did or didn't worked well for you.

    I'm not sure yet, to be honest. I need to find the time to sit down with my Garmin data and work out what went right and wrong with training. My initial impressions, without having done that analysis, are that

    (a) I kept my HR a little too low during long runs - by which I mean, at the lower end of the endurance range (around 73% MHR);

    (b) I was not rigorous enough about running at my marathon pace in parts of my long runs, and

    (c) I don't think I did enough running at LT pace.

    Things went well the first time round though so hopefully starting from a higher base will enable me to knock 5 minutes off my time by just following the same plan again. 

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