P + D training for VLM 2013



  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    JF50 yep 77 for 9image it will never be out of my system that was the base for my life.

    15West and JF50 is your half this coming weekend? Mine is on the 23rd and was going to go full tilt with a 22 the following weekend as my last long run before I start to taper and a 10k race two weeks out.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Mine is on 24th. I could go full tilt also, but just don't know how good my recovery and may screw up the rest of the following week's training.

  • Mine is this weekend NP.  Just wary of having too many days with DOMS and not getting a good week afterwards

  • NP I like your style with the proposed races prior to the marathon. They will be big confidence builders as well and if you know you recover well then go and smash them.

    I'm enjoying a nice recovery day of nothing today and may even get the roller out tonight! woo hoo.

    Also going back to my previous comments re less distractions etc.. in the 80's. This article was written today. Makes for interesting reading. I think thats why I'm enjoying the Pfitz plan so much as there is no too much 'science about it. Its just a lot of miles and good mix of speed.


  • Interesting article Chris, this quote is the one that stands out for me

    The most important aspects of a distance runner's training are patience and consistency. These things are not glamorous. They don't fit in particularly well in today's society. There is no quick fix and no immediate gratification.

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    NP - will you race the 10k 2 weeks out?

  • 15W - Are you running Wilmslow on the 24th??  I myself am.  I think I will be going 'full tilt'.

  • JF50 wrote (see)

    Interesting article Chris, this quote is the one that stands out for me

    The most important aspects of a distance runner's training are patience and consistency. These things are not glamorous. They don't fit in particularly well in today's society. There is no quick fix and no immediate gratification.


    Which is exactly what I said, today all young boys want to be is a high earning footballer, there is probably many a wasted running talent out on the sunday league football pitches every weekend.

    That some race diary NP will you go over 22 and like Jason on the marathon thread do a 24 ?

  • Sorry for repeating myself NP I see you answered on the other thread..

  • Chris, Good article.

    I'm not sure I agree that there are too many distractions nowadays, if that was the case we surely wouldnt have done so well in the Olympics?

    I wonder if the real hardcore athletes (the type that would have been doing the 100 mile a week programmes in the 80's) are doing other sports too. I know triathletes that are regularly doing 15-20 hour training weeks all year round, so the real hard workers are still out there. Other sports are becoming more popular too cycling and triathlon are both booming at the moment.

  • NN, I agree with you about football. It will always be the dominant sport in this country.

    The way our media report sport you'd think nothing else mattered but football, id bet out of some of the good footballers I played with, a few of them would have made great runners if we'd took it seriously as kids.

  • The only distractions nowadays are playstations computer games and wii thingys..it amazes Me the number of women I work with think they can get fit playing a wii image...standing on the spot pretending to play tennis ..

    Mark I admire anyone that can do more than one sport, my eldest son is into tri and somehow fits the training in around working and family life..not sure his wife is always 100% happy about it but as I pointed out there are worse things a husband could be doing..image

  • ..not sure his wife is always 100% happy about it but as I pointed out there are worse things a husband could be doing..image

    Thats what i say to my gf when she moans that im out training all the time!

    Have you thought about giving a triathlon a go? (Dont say you cant swim because its easy to learn!)

    Anyone that can follow a programme like this could easily complete a tri, the only problem training for 3 sports is it takes a lot longer to become faster. Imagine what Jess Ennis's training must look like...

  • I roll this excuse out to my wife as well. Sometimes it goes down well, sometimes it doesn't. And then I remind her that I could always go back to being a chain smoking drinker if she would prefer . It is usually persuasive argument, but I can see it must be frustrating for her at times as well. Its a difficualt balancing act to keep everyone happy.

    On the 24 mile thing, I was thinking of making my last long run a 24 miler before the taper. Just as a confidence boost. As this will be my first marathon, I think it would give me a bit more confidence knowing its only another 2 miles to do on the day. Is anyone else planning this then?  

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    NN no 22 max this year did 23's last year and don't see a need now for more than 22.image

    JF50 just run easy for a couple of days with the miles in your legs DOMs shouldn't be a big issue at this stage of marathon training, what time you going for? 15West what time you going for? Last year I did the same half in 1:22 so the aim is between 1:20 and 1:22

    Men will race the 10k as well it's taper time after that image and two weeks is well long enough to recover image

    Craig nice article but as you get older you will find a training limit mine is between 80 and 86 miles a week I got very close to 100 miles a week before but I just killed me fitting it in with work.....

    Mark multi sports are good fun I do a few Tri's during the summer but the swimming is hard to master but I still swim a couple of miles a week and find it helps stretch you out and it's great for breathing for running.
  • Chris, someone else might think differently but it don't see the point in going much further than 22 miles, there becomes a point when the risks outway the training benefits.

    I think all the midweek runs and months of training give you the strength to cover those last few miles, I dont think the last 10k of the marathon is anything to worry about if youve paced yourself right.

    NP, yeah i agree about the swimming, i haven't been in the pool lately, im missing it.

  • If you have paced yourself right! This is the bit that troubles me! ha.

  • And me!

    I thought you were aiming for 2.59.59, you should be comfortable at that pace.
  • I have a feeling that 26.2 miles will not be 'comfortable' in any way, shape or form!

  • Mark yes I am actually a good swimmer...in a pool, its actually the bike I wouldnt enjoy after falling off a few years ago my wrist still isnt right.

    And when it comes to moaning about the time spent on training, I have had that problem in reverse..my last partner was always moaning about the time I spent running, maybe I should have been out clubbing and coming home legless lol...image...the running won image

    Chris if you want to do 24 off you go you  ...I shall stick to 22

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭

    just over 5 miles recovery/easy done in the snow, bloody freezing still hereimage two hats and two pairs of gloves.

    Guys your both young and it's your first marathon if you f... up you can do another one relax and enjoy the tripimage

  • It's the 3rd marathon for me so the pressure is on! image

    I'm hoping to go sub 3 so I can retire from marathons for a while!
  • Might settle on 23 miles then NN!

    Mark just out of interest how did you get on in the first two? Did your times relate to other distance P.Bs or was it a real learning curve first time over the distance?

  • Chris, I did Barcelona in my first marathon 2 years ago I was hoping to break 3.30 but I absolutely cruised round in 3.24 it was a brilliant experience but looking back I think I was too conservative.

    Later that year I did Liverpool in 3.16, I started too fast in that and had to dig really deep to finish in the time I did. Liverpool was a lot tougher than I was expecting and I was probably a bit underprepared because I was doing a lot of triathlon training before that.

    I'm not sure what I've learnt that can help you out really, I think you'll have a pretty good idea from your training on how fast you can go, this is the first marathon where I've trained over 40 miles a week and did some proper structured training.

    Like I said earlier I don't think the marathon distance is anything to fear, as long you train properly and pace yourself right. I'm sure you'll be fine.
  • 15West wrote (see)


    Good story Pottermiss. It's true right?


    Yes it's true, but to top it off Dave Bedford rang me the next morning as someone from Virgin had seen the photo and wanted to offer me a place in their executive box for the final, all in all a good weekend image


    I've just done a 4 and a bit recovery, which was cold despite 4 layers! But my legs felt suprisingly okay. 


    I have got a number (from a friend dropping out) for the Stafford half on Sunday, and I had already entered Ironbridge on the 23rd, if I do Ironbridge I will use it as a training run but I am undecided about what to do yet. 



  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    Mark that's a good progression and going from 3:16 to sub 3 hrs is very much on for you.
  • Chris - 24 miles?  No, I wouldn't do it again, especially for first marathon.  Too big an injury risk.  

    Mark, Liverpool is a tougher course than most people expected.  I had Chester and Liverpool booked in for 2012 and decided on Chester, easier course.  Shame it has been cancelled this year.  Bastard Council. 

    Did 7 easy miles before, won't say it was pleasant as foot still cramping up and not feeling 100% but it was definitely better than Saturday and I've been to see my friend the physio who said foot is loads better than Friday and I can run and keep up training BUT in checking me out, my lack of glutes and core strength along with tight calves aren't helping recovery. So she has warned me that unless I stretch/cross train and do strength work, I will eventually blow. My attempt at single leg squats were hilarious! So, big wake up call - homework is stretches and single leg squats and need to make sure couple times a week I do strength work. I'm sure I'll become better runner for it and I knew all this stuff but kind of ignored it.  So, plan is to start doing a strength class a week and rather than do the recovery run, will do Spinning class I think.   

  • Thanks NP, I'm glad I found out about the p&d book because its made a huge difference.

    I just wish id known about it earlier.

    HeOw, yeah your right about Liverpool it was a tough course but a great marathon still, it's a shame they stopped it.

    You'll notice a big difference from doing some strengthening exercises, the physios know their stuff, it's just good that you are running again.
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Look on the bright side, Mark, I'm using P&D for my first marathon, and if I hit my target there's no way I'm going to be knocking off 15 minutes a year!

    HeOw, glad you managed to run and things are improving. I would not of course dare to recommend p*****s for strength & stretching.

    Rest day for me today, and totally flattened by sports massage. Might just have a (warm!) bath and go straight to bed.

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    vo2 session tonight - just over 9 miles with 1k splits thus; 3.36, 3.45, 3.42, 3.30, 3.37, 3.30. First two on a grass track, with the other four up and down a road with a little incline to it. Second run in row that felt really rough! Tomorrows 15 will hopefully provide something more like it.

    17mins is a big pb Mark! Just aswell for me I am only looking for 14!image

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