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P + D training for VLM 2013
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Right !! after posting here and the marathon thread I have decided NOT do the 20 any later than Sunday !! most people did say yes go for ir it will be ok, except one girl who is on a training camp in the Algarve, she said the experts there say not cut into the taper with a 20, just do a 17/18 as a 20 that late will impact on race day
the endurance is there and another 20 wont improve it, just hamper the taper, I did a bit of googling too and yes that does seem to be the rule,
Lit I had to do that 6 x 1200s session, what a fecking nightmare !! as for setting the garmin up I cant be @rsed with all that so I just run 5 mins or so fast then 2 easy..
Right, so me and NN did our 14 @ mp properly and then we also did 6 x 1200 VO2 intervals. The rest of you are all lightweights.
NN, not convinced Tuesday is all that different from Sunday, but perhaps best to just try and get it out of the way on Friday in that case.
Another VO2 max ticked off the list. Had to rejig things a bit this week, because of work commitments later in the week (I hate work!). So just back from 11 miles with 5 x 1200 metres. I am with Mark on this one - that was one seriously tough session! Found it hard to get going in the cold as well. Happy overall with the pace though - even though it felt slow at the time. 1200's came in at 4.06; 3.55; 4.00; 3.58; and 4.06 (Average pace for the reps around 5.20 mile/min). Definitely a case of another one done and dusted. Can't say I enjoyed it all tonight. But I'm glad its done.
NN - do you mean a week Monday for the 20? or the Monday after? I'm planning on doing 22 this Sunday and then probably 20 the week after - its says 17, but depending on how unconfident I am feeling I may extend to 20. That still gives 2 weeks to race day. So should be ok? Or is that just a stupid idea?
Lit we are simply the best..
Yes think I will do it Fri even if I have to do it on the way to a nightshift (I am not joking I may not be able to do it till about 3 in the afternoon...then get ready for work !!
Chris I was going to do it this coming Tues the 2nd April but had been told and read it is unwise....so no way dont do a 20 instead of that 17 ..make the 22 this Sunday your last one..
Fair play Ladies, I don't think I could have managed a 6th tonight. Great running. Noted on the taper NN - thanks. I guess that part of me is paranoid about endurance and though one final 20 miler may have been good for confidence. It seems cutting back is going to be the hard part!
Seriously Caz ?? dont go there FFS !!! (the 14 mp thing I mean ) half the thread will leap for joy..
Hey I did the training camp in 2009 with 209 events..is that who you went with ?
I can actually remember them also saying not to run longer than 3 hours for the last long run..so even if I did run it before Sunday I would stop at 3 hours even if I had only done 19..
Chris - most training plans have a 3 week taper where you reduce mileage to about 75% in 1st week, 50% in 2nd week and 25% in final week. This is a guide though, some people need more, some less. The 17mi at end of the 2nd week is not far off 20 miles, and I think adding 3 miles to this is not going to have a major impact on your taper, but then that is your call on how well you think you recover. I reckon do it if helps with your confidence, just take 3 miles off the mid week run maybe.
The important thing in the taper is to keep the pace in your key sessions, but just reduce the quantity. So, running 17mi at your normal long run pace would probably be better than 20mi at slower than your normal long run pace.
Another thing is to taper the amount of carb intake as we decrease mileage too, otherwise we'll all be a bit blobby on the start line!
Double day for me, 6 easy miles this morning, 4 later.
Wah! You could have said that before NN bullied me into doing it!
think body needs a good whack of MRP but not too much where you compromise your other runs and if you do them all the time, you are running your long runs nearer anaerobic level rather than aerobic. 14 miles to me, seems pretty perfect. I do think though it is necessary to do it within an 18-20 miler to get the full benefits, a 14 miler at MRP wouldn't give me the same benefits as a 14 mile incorporated into a 18-20 miler.
Still elephant woman. Fucked off with it. I do feel a bit better though but face is too bad to go out and I am not fit enough to run. I reckon I will lose pretty much a week, just when I cannot afford to. Gutted. Never ever doing a training plan again. I feel under too much pressure.
MARK that is good news re not having PF. My feet were playing up underneath on race on Sunday, it literally was because it was so cold.
CHRIS I hear what 15W is saying but really, an extra 3 miles will not make a difference at this stage and that 20 miler could cause you a niggle or just wear you out for any reason. Err on side of caution. If you haven't got any confidence now, after doing all this bloody brilliant training - you need your head testing! You will be fine.
I need to take positives from being benched again, I shall do yoga later and some strength work, Have done none at all, even though physio told me to.
Chris, just stick to the plan! You have done more than enough, even time I read your posts on here I worry that you are going to overcook yourself.
You've got enough ability to break 3 hours just be confident in yourself.
15W and Heow - thanks for the conflicting advice - now I am more confused! ha
In all seriousness I think I will wait to see how this weeks 22 miler goes before deciding. I tend to receover well from the longer runs (touch wood), but wouldnt want to do anything stupid. I guess its just paranoia. I get the feeling like the long runs on the Pfitz plan were done ages ago and I'm paranoid that the benefits will be lost by race day. Other people on other plans tend to have been building their long runs progressively, whereas we seem to have had a fair few early on with a step back already. Part of me wonders if I need one closer to race day just so I worry less! Did I ever mention I worry?!
Heow - really hope you are feeling better soon. Its definately best to rest with a nasty abcess like that, especially in this weather. You will just make yourself feel worse. Try to do loads of core / other stuff and fingers crossed you will be feeling stronger when you come back.
Chris, just imagine come race day and you tire, you will curse the fact that you did that run so close. P&D is probably one the best "off the shelf" plans you will ever do, trust it. Even if I couldn't manage to fit another long run in now, before Manchester (which is 4 weeks on Sunday), I would not do one 2 weeks before, I have done plenty and endurance is one of the last things you lose, I find pace goes first. Stop being daft, stick to the plan and trust it. You start messing with it and you might make huge mistake. Save yourself for the race, you want to be fired up, raring to go - not thinking "fuck that 20 miler I did 2 weeks ago was a bit hard, this is going to be tough today". 15W is giving great advice IF you choose to do it but I think he knows himself, it would be better not to.
Thanks Mark/Chris, I will survive... I look like shit though! Everyone who has seen my photo thinks it has been doctored by PhotoBooth on iMac where you can have hamster cheeks!
I resolved this connundrum by running my 14m @ 4:17 pace, so I finished them within the hour.
Isn't that what everybody does?
We want to see the photo too! (so we can all be very very sympathetic, obviously).
Chris, it's true that lots of the longer runs were done a while ago, but this week's 20/22 is quite close nonetheless, surely?
You honestly think I would put it on here Literatin for thousands of people to see...? Oh ok then.
Nah, not a chance in hell.
Ten - slacking a bit on the pace aren't ya? The man who won Wilmslow ran it all sub 5m/m. Unbelievable.
Some people just find 3 weeks too long and they end up feeling very sluggish and prefer a 10 to 14 day taper. We are all individuals and what works for one person will not work for another. Whichever length of taper you choose, you can sharp by keeping up the intensity, but just bringing down quantity progressively.
Loads of stuff on the internet, and plenty of disagreements on whether to have a two week or three week taper...
http://excelsiorsports.blogspot.co.uk/2008/12/tapering.html
I'm putting my faith in P&D. That's why I'm here.
I think for first marathon though, 3 weeks be a better idea 15? I would say seasoned marathoners can take a shorter one. I would just say to be careful Chris - like 15 says, not one plan is right for every individual.
Less is more
Yes - where is NP and his words of wisdom....?
Can't offer words of wisdom like NP I'm afraid.
Have rejigged my programme and ran the 11 miler this morning, will do the 10 mile vo2 tomorrow. Ran it more like MP than long run, just decided to run without looking at my Garmin at all, except to make sure it started. Oh well another minus point on my training log
As long as they only ask to see my passport at expo and don't want to download my Garmin I should get away with it.
Back feel fine, left foot still needs watching as I can feel it after the run. New shoes broken in this morning so hope that help as well. Mark glad yours is not as bad as you thought.
P&D is a blanket guide - It covers people from 2.30hrs upto 6 hrs so can never be a one hat fits all solution. A lot of people on here are going to breeze there targets as long as they get to the day refreshed and fully charged
. I am on the cusp of what I am wanting to do being acheivable, but would like to do the last 20 and 18 with 14 but am coming to the conclusion that I should just blend them into a 20 with 14 - Given what go caz has said I maywell do it as a 20 with 7 and 7 at mp to make it less risky. Options options.
Go Caz - what was the training camps view on Taper?
HeOw - Those antibiotics will be kicking in soon hopefully - I was laid up at this point for 3 weeks when I did my first Mara with Pericarditis. It cost me 9 mins over target time so one week should not do too much damage as long as you dont try and get it back during your taper.
Mennania - thanks
- I also will do my 14 within my last 20, 3 weeks before. I will aim to maybe do a shortish recovery run tomorrow, Friday will rest, saturday do another recovery and then Sunday hopefully do a longer. Then beginning of next week do the 20 with 14, then I can slot a MLR run in on the following Sunday before I taper. I have done a 16, 15, 18, 20, 18, 22.5, 16, 20, 18 and done all the MRP miles (yet to do the dreaded 14) - I have double ran on the days I did the HMs to make distance up to 18 so I hopefully, should be fine? I have missed a couple of V02 sessions and have missed lot of recovery runs but I have done all the tempos (plus 2 HMs). I think as a mother of 3 young children, I have done as well as possibly can! I have given up worrying now, half the battle is to stand at the marathon starting line and feel 100% - I could have not missed one session and then come down with a slight cold day of race and that would hit me more than missing a few runs.
Since someone has brought up the subject of tapering. I have been looking at the schedule and noticed that during marathon week they suggest I do 26 miles or thereabouts in the days before the marathon. This seemed like quite a lot to me, as if you add the marathon it would make another 50 + mile week. What do people think/are they doing?
If you compare this P&D plan to majority of other advanced plans, I would say this is far far harder than any of the Hal Higdons or Runners World ones. We will ALL BE FINE! I can see we are all starting to get jittery and doubt ourselves now. All normal. In roughly 2 weeks, we will start checking the weather obsessionally too. Then, we will be posting that we feel like we are getting a cold and we have ran and feel sluggish. Then we will be imagining we have an injury. Basically, we are going to turn hysterical.
Fiona, am I hell doing the amount of miles P&D recommend in the taper! I haven't stuck to the miles in the plan hardly at all so I would be overtrained come race. Do what you feel is right for you. I do think there are too many miles for a lot of us.