Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
P + D training for VLM 2013
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Hi everyone... I've bought the P&D book, and have read a fair bit of it.
I've read the Hadd thread, which looks like it offers a good precursor to doing P&D (though to be honest, right now, I cannot see myself coming close to 55 miles a week. If I can get up to 40, I'll be surprised... but you never know.)
Anyway, I just did a search and can't see a 'general' P&D thread (apart from some very old short ones). Is this VLM2013 P&D thread the main one for general discussion of P&D?
Jealous of some great performances I've read about on here!
Fiona! A World Record?! That is a cracker that is! Well done to you and yep, had you been in technical gear, you surely could have knocked a bit more off the time.
Literatin - I am still in awe at you running your first marathon at my 5k pace.
Mark - please don't feel disappointed, you ran a great race, you tried your best and at your level, a 12 min PB is bloody smashing. Be proud mate.
Chris - love the showboating to the wife! Any photos of that?! Well done, again, for a first marathon, like Literatin, you are showing such a promising future. You smashed it.
5 more sleeps folks. Weather looking ok so far but too far ahead to call. 15, I cannot remember 100%, I am sure the weather forecast for Manchester was starting to look a bit grim from around now? Feeling very calm, I am thinking I will head out with the 3:45 pacer and just hope the training comes out the bag.
Run Wales - I have just sent you a FB request, you used to be on my old Facebook but I got rid of that one a while ago.
Hi Run Wales, I quite quickly realised that 55 miles was too much for me both in terms of mileage and time to fit it all in, so I shaved off some of the easy miles and made sure that I kept the quality sessions. I am very happy with a 5 and a half minute PB and a 45 min 'London PB' from when I ran it 2 years ago. So it can be done on less if needed, just keep to the basic principles, all plans need to be adapted to what is best for the individual.
Did we run past the Cutty Sark? I realised later that I didn't see it!
I forgot to say that a good moment was when I was at about 13 miles Richard Whitehead was coming up the other way approaching mile 23 I think, he got a great reception from all around.
Good report Mark, and well done. I know you must be disappointed by the 3.04, but you were on for it if wasn't for the cramp. So, need to work out how to avoid the cramp. Some think that should up hydration and sodium intake in days leading up to race might help, but I think general thinking is it's just over worked muscles...and the only way to avoid is train more! I too felt cramp coming on but managed to keep it at bay until after finishing.
I think it's good to learn lessons for the next time. For me the P&D schedules work well, but there are a few things I need to address.
One is my form, I definately felt my form going as I got progressively tired. I think I need to work on my core muscles more, and just to practice and concentrate on keeping form in training runs when getting tired.
Another thing is being honest with my goals. Now, I was telling myself and everyone that I was going for 2.55, and so pace would be 6.40...but after wilmslow half I felt maybe I could go quicker. Trouble is by then all my MP practice long runs were out the way...so all my MP long, which I think are invaluable, were at a pace slower than my actual MP. So - I need to do my races earlier in the cycle and determine my MP earlier so I can practice at least a few times in my long runs. I did well on sunday, but I really felt close to breaking down at a few points.
Great report Mark. I really think that your time is more akin to a 2.55 or better, had you not had to deal with all the horrible things you did the weeks leading up to London. You should really give yourself a massive pat on the back for doing so well, so underready for the day. Like you say you were running tired (physically and emotionally) which must have been exhausting. On the bright side, you have a GFA qualification so can come back next year and show your true rested capability. And you get to experience the amazing atmosphere again!
Ten - I took a SIS gel every 4 miles. Just the normal watery ones (no caffeine or nitrates as I find them rank). I also made sure I washed my mouth out with water at every mile and chucked the rest over my neck. I also had a couple of swigs of lucozade at every lucozade station, but not too much to upset the stomach.
Also Ten - how has the recovery gone a la P&D plan? I'm not looking forward to my first planned run tomorrow. How did you find it?
Lit I think we need a photo of said bum! ha.
I don't mind the heat, I'm used to racing in the middle of summer doing tri's so I don't think that was the problem.
I'm probably the same with my core not being strong enough my form was all over the place later in the race, I think you probably had the pace just right though, right on the edge but managing to keep it going till the very end.
Lit, I quite fancied Frankfurt marathon but I'm at a wedding the week before so I might look at something a bit earlier. Possibly Chester for something a bit more straightforward. Has anyone raced Chester before? I wondered if it is a fast course or not.
HeOw, not long to go now. I'll be willing you on on Sunday. Can we track the race?
Chris - I wouldn't bother running if you don't feel up to it...no need to stick to any schedule this week I don't think, it's all about recovering completely. I definately won't be running at all until at least the weekend, might do some cross training later in the week.
Run Wales - important to build up a good base before starting any of the P&D plans, which I think what Hadd could offer. If you can slowly build your mileage to up to 40 to 50 miles a week before starting you should be good.
Mark - Chester is a fastish course but it isn't "flat" - it has undulations on it but definitely could aim for a PB on it. I ran it last year, as did Craig and 15W. It is a great race though, superbly organised, lovely racecourse start and finish and around nice rural areas of Cheshire/Wales with nice support. I loved it. I am hopefully pacing the 4:15 or 4:30 runners there this year.
Yes, I belleve you can track us!
Mark - I ran Chester last year, as did HeOw. A great race. It is fairly flat, all though a few unhelpful hills in the last few miles. Very different to London of course, most of it is through countryside. Well organised though, a nice start and finish area at the race course and they have a kids 1mile race and kids activities which my daughter loved, and the race course is right near the town centre.
Tempted to enter myself actually. MUST RESIST!
Beat me to it HeOw!
Bloody near identical comments too! Ha ha!
15W - do it, g'awn. We need another Chester thread, last years was funny.
Cramps in the legs were a definite problem for lots of runners. My right calf cramped up after having to jump sideways to avoid the guy in front who'd just stopped suddenly to grab his right calf!?! There's some perverse logic to that, but I didn't find it funny at the time. .
I wish you hadn't mentioned the kid's race at Chester, I'm not planning to run another marathon any time soon, but my 6-year old daughter said she wants to run one. I can see the temptation to enter Chester and let her take part in a race on the same day becoming more appealing when the legs start working again.
Run Wales, welcome to the thread. The HADD idea makes sense, and I followed the same principles of running just low intensity miles prior to starting the P&D plan. From memory this was about 35 miles per week prior to starting the upto 55 mile plan, and I didn't find the ramp up to over 50 miles that difficult as the first meso-cycle is a slow build in distance.
Yeah - they get a pretty decent medal and t-shirt too....
edit - referring to kids race at Chester...
Hmmm...everyone in family is telling me to stop!
except the dog. He understands.
Look, we are your family.
Yes. You're right. Ok, going to get rid of this one (might keep the dog though).
I actually entered it last year but didn't end up running because I hadn't trained enough. Other options are Bournemouth and Jersey around the same time.
Chris, thanks for the kind reply. There were points in training where I thought 2.55 might have been possible but I think if I'm honest I wasn't running anywhere near as quick as you in training.
I think the 2.58 might have been achievable but that would have been with everything going perfect on the day and in the build up.
Oh right, we're all doing Chester now are we?
Oh, and can we have stalker numbers for Manchester, please?
Hi HeOw,
When you sign up to forums, you need to pick a user name... and within a few seconds, you give yourself an identity that you can stay with you for years. "Run Wales" popped into my head, for some reason, but it was a mistake.
There's a company called RunWales Ltd... and obviously there's the famous Run England... and I have a suspicion that someone has had a similar username before. Even having initials RW on a RW website can be problematic!
I'm just an ordinary bloke... not connected with any of the above. I've been wondering whether to drop this name.
I don't know to whom you've sent a FB friend request, it's not me
Sadly I don't think I am really as I'm doing a half the week before and am determined to beat EVERYONE from my club in it.
Mark. Don't base a 2.55 time on my training paces. I know I train too fast, but that's what works for me. So don't read too much into that. I think 15W has the perfect mix of sensible training paces translating to awesome running times! Now go get your 2.55 (after a long and relaxing break with the wife!).
Thanks for the welcome (just to repeat my question... do we consider this to be a general ongoing P&D thread, or was it VLM2013 specific?)
Actually, I'll probably do Chester as my 2nd marathon. That's 24 weeks away.
I'm been on 20-25 miles a week for the last couple of months (P&D book recommends at least 25miles, preferably more, for starters)
Maybe get up to 30+ miles with 6 weeks of Hadd (not the recommended length of hadding, I'm sure, but probably enough to give a base with some aerobic improvement)... then 18 weeks of an adapted P&D - by adapted, I mean shortened a bit, because I will not find time for it all. If anyone would do anything dramatically different, I'd be glad to hear opinions.
Hi Run Wales, I think it started as VLM 2013 specific and then became any 2013 spring marathon specific. I suppose there's every possibility it'll keep going if enough people remain P&D enthusiasts and are doing autumn marathons. I personally don't plan to do another marathon till next year but I'm sure some people will be seduced by the lure of Chester.
Run Wales. I personally didn't do any double recovery days. I ditched the morning 4 miles and just did the prescribed 6 miles at night. So that's one way of cutting a few miles off without losing any quality.