P + D training for VLM 2013



  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    That's pretty poor organising by the Marathon of the North. I wonder what will happen to people's results? What about people using the result to enter London as a GFA entrant? How did marshalls not realise when the lead bike went a different way - they must have been around at the time in order to direct the guy in second place, surely?

    Anyhow, that's week four of Mesocycle five complete. Thirty miles in total, with the majority at GA pace. Next week increases from four to five days running, ending with a MLR. I'm thinking I might do a parkrun the following week to assess where I'm at before starting 10k training.


  • Ten - I have a question for you.  When you were planning your schedule did you just divide up the miles that were left to get to the week total equally or did you do it some other way?

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Fiona - some of the miles were warm up and cool down miles for the fast sessions, the same as we have been doing for marathon training. The rest were recovery runs. At the moment, I've made it equal the mileage in the P&D plan (10k 25-45m schedule), but I will almost certainly be doing more mileage in the early weeks (depending on how well I cope with faster "long run" paces and key sessions). I've stuck to five days a week for the schedule, except where the recovery runs would be longer than key sessions - in which case I have divided up the recovery miles over more days.

    Hope all that makes sense?

    I like the way they tell you the order of importance of the runs during each phase of training, so it's easier to decide which sessions to drop if the need arises.

  • Ten - that is pretty much what I've done.  I'm following the half 30-50 miles or whatever its called.  My problem was that sometimes I seemed to have a lot of miles left to put into 2 runs.  Maybe I need to do more miles on the warm up and cool down so there would be less. I really must look at the marathon plan and see what I was doing a few weeks ago  as I can't remember.  I just seemed a little too much to be doing a 8-9 mile recovery the day before the LSR, but I was probably doing that and have forgotten.image

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    I'm pretty sure I'll be doing some tweaking as things go along, but I won't know until I find out how the sessions feel.

    This evening I ran 5m recovery to heart rate. It was slower than usual by almost one minute per mile image. Hopefully 'tis but a blip.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    I have officially completed Mesocycle 5 of my P&D spring marathon campaign image

    Today's run was an 11m MLR to complete 35m for the week. My MLR pace range for a 3:45 marathon is 10:18 to 9:27. However, I have been running all of my runs since the marathon according to my heart rate range. Using Heart Rate Reserve, my MLR training range is 135bpm to 152bpm (based on max 181bpm, and resting heart rate 49bpm). The stats for each mile are:

    HR: 128/133/136/140/142/145/146/151/150/152/152bpm

    Pace: 10:06/9:55/9:35/9:59/10:03/9:23/8:56/8:44/9:09/9:11/9:03

    My average pace for the entire run was 9:28, which is the fast end of my training pace range for the target marathon (next spring!). Moreover, it's equal to my average marathon pace at Brighton this year.

    I've got a few weeks before I start the P&D 10k training program, so I have time to do a bit of experimenting and perhaps do a parkrun or two. I'll continue to use heart rate to judge training paces for Threshold and VO2Max sessions, now that I have confidence in my heart rate figures. I feel like I'm in a good place moving forwards, thank you very much Mr P and Mr D.

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    Ten -  Nice confidence building run there. Off to hunt down the P&D 10k plan

  • Nice to see the thread still going. I dispensed with the recovery meocycle and have just been running to feel I guess since London. I'm up to about 40 odd miles a week again, and finally managed a run over 10 miles on Sunday. Did 13 in total at a decent pace - but boy was it hard work!

    I've also done a couple of 5k races to get some speed back in the legs, but I'm still not as fast as I was before the marathon. I think those miles really do stick in the legs! Hoping that a nice flat 5k this week might provide the right time

    Looking forward I am going to try to use the P and D plan to build for a half marathon later in the year. Although to be honest I am tempted to use the full marathon programme, but just to drop long mileage on the weekend and mid week to a more sensible level. Anyone else following the P and D half plan?

    Hope all are recovered.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Hi Chris, I have been doing the recovery mesocycle sort of, but with more races in it, and like you am not quite as fast as I think I should be yet (or as McMillan thinks I should be, though I suspect my shorter race times will never live up to his standards). I did feel the need to do some speedwork tonight, though, as I pleaded (nagged) to be allowed to enter my club's 5 mile race in 10 days rather than marshall at it, so want to do my best. 5 x 800m with 2 min recoveries felt just like the good old days of marathon training, and I think I'm finally getting some speed back! image

    And Ten, you totally deserve the good results as you've been the ultimate P&D disciple!

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Thanks Men/Lit image

    Chris - Fiona is following the HM plan.

    It feels a bit strange - not having a schedule to follow at the moment image. I'm going to experiment with heart rate vs pace for the upcoming 10k plan. One thing I'm confused about is whether I should run "long" runs based on my current 10k pace, or on my target 10k pace. I guess it should be the latter if I am going to improve. The long runs are only up to 10m, so running faster shouldn't be a big deal.

    Today I ran 8m "long" run at the target heart rates and was slower than the paces required for the target 10k, though if I ignore the first mile then I wasn't far out on average. I'm considering including an extra warm-up mile in each long run in order to steady my heart rate before the harder effort. Next week I'll run to the prescribed target pace and review the heart rate afterwards.

    Anyhoo, it's probably time to call it a day in this thread. The autumn marathon thread isn't really suitable, so no doubt I'll be joining you all again in December for VLM 2014 training image.

  • Ten - where would I get hold of a p&d training schedule? As you know interested in HR training - initially for the triathlons this summer but then for Brighton Marathon in the Spring. Thanks ... sorry I seem to have followed you to another thread!image

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Emma - the marathon schedules are in the book "Advanced Marathoning" by Pfitzinger and Douglas (hence, P&D). there are some copies of the plans floating around the internet, but I recommend getting the book to fully understand the schedules. Other distances are covered in "Road Racing for Serious Runners". The marathon book is easier to follow, because it lays out solid plans, while the road racing book leaves you to fill in the gaps in the plans.

  • Thanks Ten!

    You are a real advocate of HR training aren't you - seems to work incredibly well for sleepy and Oscarr!

  • Ten - I have solved the problem of which pace by using HR like we did in the marathon training.  I figure that the pace should come down if I train right and if is isn't low enough then I am probably off on my aim.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Your welcome Emma.

    Fiona - I had a re-read and it makes sense to stick to heart rate in order to stimulate the proper adaptations for each type of run. Not only that, but my target race times are a bit finger-in-the-air at this point in time.

    I've just entered the 2014 Silverstone Half Marathon image. No sense in delaying entry, when I already know it fits my schedule.

  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭
    Before everyone disappears - this was mentioned a while ago but I can't find it on the thread.....any suggestions for London hotels (I'm planning ahead for VLM14, as I have GFA)....I remember a couple of you suggesting certain hotels which can be booked now but cancelled nearer the time if something cheapie came up. Cheers

    Silverstone sounds good Ten...used to watch the bikes there in my yoof image
  • Shazmo - premier inn Greenwich . Book on flexible rate so you can cancel later. It is near the start and only 5 mins on the train to maze hill if you don't want to walk all the way. There is also a travelodge and Novotel in the same area although I don't know if they do cancellable rates.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Shazmo - I've just booked Travelodge Greenwich for £84 on their flexible rate (so I can cancel if I want to up to noon on arrival day).

  • ShazmoShazmo ✭✭✭
    Thanks Fiona &Ten image
  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    I've now added the Sunday night at the flexible rate (£48) as a contingency. It will depend on whether the family also come down with me (it's the easter holiday period, so the kids are off school on the Monday).

    C'mon VLM - get that deferral email sent out image

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Ten, just checked and I had an email from VLM last year on 29th May to confirm my deferred entry for this year - so it should be within the next week (if they keep the same schedule).

    Don't forget to keep an eye on your spam email folder just in case, as a friend lost their "You're in after 5 rejections" email this way a few years back.  

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Thanks Stutyr - I'll keep checking next week.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    As a postscript to Mesocycle 5, I ran 25 seconds parkrun PB (23:07) this morning image. Bring on the summer speed training!

  • Well done Ten, that's fantastic.

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