P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Al I too shall be doing a local half on that date, I did the last time and think there is plenty of time to recover, unlike when I raced a half 2 weeks before a marathon ( allowing the day a mile to recover theory ) image not a good idea ..the last 8 miles were the worst of my life mind you I hadnt followed any kind of schedule either.

    Anyone tried doing there quality runs on a treadmill with success ? ie marathon paced sections of long runs and tempo ? I was thinking of popping into the gym half way through the runs to do this ...no I dont care what I look like ..image

    JF50 I am quite lucky as my shifts ( the clues in the name) allow me plenty of time during the day to do my running....I work 3 nights on the trot so have 4 days off in which to get training done..I tend to leave the shorter stuff and recovery runs for between shifts although I do try to keep to the plan so sometimes have do get a 12-15 miler in between night shifts image

  • I do the same as Teknik, and I've booked to do the Chichester Priory in early Feb, the Race your pace half in mid Feb, the Spitfire 20 in early March, and the Eastleigh 10k in late March.....

    The 10ks will replace a tempo run, and the HM and the 20m will replace long runs at MP
  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    (waves at Minni)

    Check out the treadmills prior to planning your LSRs oin them NN. Some gyms have a time restriction policy, some treadmills have an actual tme restriction which shuts them down after 1 hr! Impressive mental toughness if you can stick it out though.

    I always find I get sucked into trying too hard if I have entered a race and cannot stick to M pace. 2 ways around this are to accept that you are going to race and taper before and after a bit for it (maybe take out a hard session the week befor eand 1 - 2 the week after). Also what worked well for me was to run 6m before a local HM at MP+60sec, then [email protected]+45sec, [email protected]+30sec, [email protected]+15sec, 1m flat out, 1m warm down. It helped to hold me back, taught me the feel of pace and was a really enjoyable work out, especially coming flying past people over that final mile!

  • Keir my plan was to do some miles out doors then pop into the gym do some mara pace or tempo then get back outside for the rest of the run ...I dont think I could do a whole LSR on a treddy, I like your plan for the local half race...if you can stick to the paces without getting carried away..I get a little competitive....and then there are the results that EVEYONE sees...still I guess I could always say I had a cold or a few glasses of wine the night before...everyone has used those excuses for a bad run at some time havent they image

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    NN Lol...one way to rein yourself in is to find a clubmate who wants to hit a particular time target, where that pace is your MP - the satisfaction of pacing them round outweighs the "embarrassment" of posting a slow time...

    ...then again, once we're aerobic machines, there won't be much difference betwen HM and M pace anyway....image

  • hi all

    I'm in for this....

    Had a bad run of injuries recently but hope to be in a good position to start the 55 program on the 17th.

    Looks like we're in for a particularly cold and snowy winter so there might be quite a bit of boring treadmill work.

    Bring it on!!! Good luck all



  • Like YoungPup, I too am aiming for Milton Keynes, which will be my first marathon. Planning to start the 18 week up to 55 schedule on Jan 1st. The dates fit too neatly not to do it!

    This may all be a bit ambitious for me - I'm currently trying to build from 30 mpw (for my recent HM campaign, PB at 92:11) to 40 mpw before the end of the year, and trying out some of the runs from P&D's "endurance" phase. Let's see how it goes ...

  • Morning!

    Minni - I had totally forgotten you were running too.  I never expected it to be a PB as I knew what the course was like and I was relieved it wasn't also raining just to cap things off. However, I was only 1:50 slower than my PB at VLM which I think in reality means that I did sustain a better pace over a tougher course so I am pleased and as you say the mental toughness aspects are always useful.

    I haven't planned any races yet for next year but must start thinking about it. I don't usually race that often so have always "raced" but maybe this year I'll do some at MP - I quite fancy the idea of finishing a HM and still feeling quite fresh instead of exhausted. image

    In all honesty I had decided not to do a marathon in the spring unless I got into VLM and I got another ballot place (totally unexpected) as I got one for this year as well. Had just planned on doing more 10K and HM and working on speed. However no intention of turning down the place so that was that.

    I assume from what you are all saying the plans are 18 weeks starting 17th Dec (I haven't seen the plan yet). That will be fine as already up to about 40 mpw so will just continue in a similar manner - although this week is 0 image well so far, probably by the weekend it will be 8 or so miles.

  • Hi everyone image  and a wave to NN & Minni image

    P&D plans are great. I owe 2 huge PBs to them!!

    I do stick to their 12 week 55-70 mile schedule (18 weeks is too long imho but I usually maintain a base of 50 mpw anyway). So I will probably keep to HADD type running between now and Jan. Like Minni said, the number of 20+ milers could be higher. I prefer having 5 or 6 of them. And that thing about Saturday tune-up races doesn't really work well in Europe...  but you can always do a time trial or move the long run and pick a Sunday race. 

    NN: treadmill running imageimage. I admire people that can churn out seemingly endless sessions on the mill. Not for me. I'd die of boredom image

  • moofmoof ✭✭✭
    Hi all, (keir, Minni) I will be following the P&D 55-70 schedule again for VLM 2013, I used it last year and the two medium long runs plus the Sunday LR really improved my endurance so I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of 20's.

    In saying that and perhaps contradicting myself I'm thinking about running the 70-85 Sunday long runs as they are slightly longer (max 24 miles) and perhaps on the rest day I will be cross training (bike) or a 30 min recovery run, just to add a few more miles.

    Last year I did pick up a niggle towards the end of the campaigns due to, I think, running the vo2 sessions too hard rather than sticking to the 5k paces as suggested.

    Up until Dec 17th (?) I'm going to be just running easy miles (max HR 75%) with one or two sessions to include some strides and one hilly route where I forget about heart rate otherwise I'd be walking half of it and sprinting the other half.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Hello Keir and Chick. image

    Fiona - sounds like you're in a great place to start your Spring campaign. I'm trying to bump up my races a bit so might see you around. I've booked the Northumberland half in March as my pre London half. I forgot you were running too otherwise I'd have looked you out on Sunday.
  • macemace ✭✭✭

    Afternoon folks

    Great idea for a thread

    No VLM for me so i'm gonna gate crash with my Brighton Marathon hat on image

    Not decided which plan to do yet but i'm HADDing at the moment and am up to around 45M a week. Will build to about 50-55 in November then chuck in a weekly sub LT session in December, a week off over XMAS and then ON IT !!!

    So with a likely start of 2 Jan '13 looks like i'll be taking an 18 week schedule and chopping a few weeks off of it or doing a 12 week jobby image 

  • Hi all, I'm about to start P and D again.  Last year I did 55-70 with extra runs and managed a sub 40 10k, sub 90 half and 3.15 marathon, all PBs.  Got bit distracted with ultras after that but going to give it a go again for Lochaber marathon this year, probably 70-85 schedule.


  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Hi All -wave to Minniimage and Chickimage

    Think I may give this a go (55-70mpw) but with a few more 20m LRs .This year on around 50mpw peaking at 65/72miles I did VLM 3.14.18 and Liverpool 3.9.51 (pb)and want see if I have anything left in me to knock off that and if I can get my 10k time from 40.04 under 40 mins I will be ecstatic. I will have to vary it a bit to allow for a bit of skiing and some tri training

    If I dont follow the plan to the letter will I be expelled?image

  • i've been thinking of which plan to follow for the Manchester Marathon, which is a week after the 2013 VLM. I have the P&D book so was looking at the "up to 55mpw" plan, which means starting on xmas eve :-

    This gives me 7 weeks from next Monday to crank up the miles. I'm aiming for 30 this week, then stick at that for 2-3 weeks, then up to about 35ish for the remaining weeks til xmas. I think they recommend a pre-requisite of about 30 mpw and recent long run comparable to the first long run in the plan (of 11 or 12 miles i think). This seems achieveable so long as I don't get injured.

    At least by lagging a week behind I can pick up some tips from you chaps and chapesses. Glad that you guys will be sharing the pain image

  • i'll probably also shift the whole plan forward by 1 day, doing the LSR on a Saturday and having a Sunday rest, rather than Sunday long run with Monday rest, as it fits my schedule a lot better. I can't imagine it will make a huge amount of difference and I think they said in their book that within reason it's fine to shuffle around the plan if necessary.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Blimey it's like meeting old friends in a new pub here!
  • So it is, Minni.  I think (after all my agonising) that I will go back to the devil I know.  P&D for VLM it is; probably

  • Count me in, I've just purchased the book from Amazon earlier this morning. I'm aiming for a sub3 hour marathon from my first marathon. I'm a sub 19 5k, sub 40 10k runner at the moment and just got my mileage upto 30 last week. Aiming to get it upto 45 by xmas to start an 18 week plan.

  • Al Runs wrote (see)

    Is anyone doing the Silverstone HM on March 3rd? I've signed up as it seems well-timed. P&D don't seem keen on races that long so it will require some thought as how to fit it in.

    I'm also doing the Silverstone Half, realistically hoping to finish that in around 1:23 to have a fighting chance of breaking 3hours in London. 5 months 19days to go .... image


  • Afternoon all, some familiar names here now. This morning's sample run from The Good Book was an 11 miler with 6M at lactate threshold. It was a toughy. Thankfully the longest LT run is only 1M more than that.

    So far I've found the hardest session I've tried was a 16M long run with the final 8M @ mara pace. And those go up to 18M with 14M @ mara pace... although maybe it was a clue that I'm being a bit ambitious with my current marathon pace. What have others found to be the toughest workouts from P&D experience?

    On a separate note - does anyone here use Strava? Good for geeking out even more about heart rates and pace, plus it's got a social aspect where you can comment on friends' runs. Might be good for people on this thread? If you're on it and want to add me my first name is Al, surname is Riley. If you're not on it, I'd recommend it. I upload my run to Garmin Connect then put it on Strava.

    Ship-star - very similar times and goals to me! Are you going for the

  • Ship-star, cross-post - very similar indeed! I'm thinking 1.24 for Silverstone. But lots of time to think about that...

  • And the end of my previous post got cut off. Meant to say:

    Ship-star - very similar times and goals to me! Are you going for the

  • jeeeeeez...meant to say:

    Ship-star - very similar times and goals to me! Are you going for the LESS THAN 55M schedule? 

    (I think the less than sign caused the issue...)

  • Al Runs wrote (see)

    Ship-star - very similar times and goals to me! Are you going for the LESS THAN 55M schedule? 

    (I think the less than sign caused the issue...)

    I think you're a bit quicker than me Al, I'm a long way off running a sub18 Parkrun as I've only recently gone sub-19, I'm pretty new to running so still playing catch up. image Regarding the schedules, I'm not going to know which is best until Mr Amazon drops the holy grail through my letter box. If anybody has any anecdotes of which has worked best for them, that would help the decision a lot.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Wow busy thread...

    Chick, Keir and the other Haddites (hi mace!)...when you switch from Hadd Base to P&D, do you replace the P&D LT runs with sub-LT Hadd runs, or just dump Hadd completely and follow Puff and Diddy?


  • I feel like I'm slap-bang between the 'up to 55' and '55 to 70'.

    So my dilemma is whether to do an inflated 55 or a cut-down 70. I'm thinking probably inflated 55 as it would have the psychological boost of adding extra miles, rather than not making the grade...

  • I think that's probably wise, if you run over 55 you can walk around feeling smug for a few hours image


  • Al Runs - I definitely find the long runs @ MP the toughest workouts, and I've learnt from painful experience that the key is to focus on an effort level rather than a fixed pace.  Last time round, I definitely set my MP pace too high, and had two horrible runs where I was meant to do 12m @ MP, and 14m @ MP that I simply couldn't finish.....

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