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P + D training for VLM 2013
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Finished off my week two with a 13 miler yesterday, eight of them at MP. Tough keeping to the pace because of the strong winds and probably went too fast on 3 of the miles but fairly close on the others.
Because of work I am shifting Tuesday to Monday this week so it's a 10 miler at GA, not the ideal but legs feel fine anyway so should be ok. Slight step up in the up to 55 mile programme this week with an extra run.
Ten - I actually did a max heart rate test
so I know that the HR is about right. If I used the calculations I would actually be going at a lower HR and hence more slowly.
The HR max test is ceratinly not something I'd want to do twice
I am no expert, but I'm basing my runs on pace, and using the heart rate only to check I'm not overdoing it. My reasoning is that I have a particular target time in mind for the marathon (based on race times and predictions), and so I'm going with recommended paces to meet that target.
I'm not sure if this helps you, but hopefully someone else with more experience will chime in.
50x25m front crawl this morning and a nice 6 miles recovery to close the year.
First race of the New Year tomorrow which is another off road race
Literatin If you do the Half marathon do it as your last long run and don't taper for it, I have one on the 23rd March, but do the next couple of days as easy running thats what I have done for the past few years it's still 5 weeks out from London.
... and I thought the weather round my way had been bad! I normally go around the flooded roads.
To start the New Year, at 00:05, I entered (sober I shall add!) Snowdonia Marathon.
Cannot wait! So, Manchester end of April, Trail Marathon Wales (killer) in June and then Snowdonia. Hopefully, I can remain injury free for 2013 (have managed to thus far in my running life).
Fiona/Tenjiso, I don't wear HR all the time, I have got used to the ranges to run in, it is too distracting to me to have to keep eye on it. If I am feeling tired, I just know to lower my pace a bit. I would say my easy pace falls into early 9m/m for long runs and between 8:30-8:50 on shorter runs and steady pace is between 7:50 to 8:50, again, depending on how long I am doing steady pace for. Anything under 7:50 becomes tempo pace pretty much. Recovery runs are done around 9:40-10m/m. McMillan pace calculator has mine pretty spot on too, going from my 5k time, not from my marathon time.
Literatin - I have done HMs 3-4 weeks before marathons and to be honest, I don't think I would again. Reason being, I didn't taper and I didn't do the race justice, I missed out of doing a long run for them, I would think I had more chance of getting a HM PB mid training rather than just before I taper. I am going to do one mid to end Feb (2 months before), probably Wrexham, and then just do some shorter tune up races pre marathon. I was dithering re 20 mile race but 100% decided against that.
14 miles easy for me later on. Hopefully the husband will do the roast when I am out!
LOL ' Ten..
Well just back from my first tempo session of the schedule
on News Year day of all days, I was good and didnt drink much last night at all. 3 x vodka and cokes...then stuck to coke just acted silly and no one knew any different !! Still felt a bit delicate tho.mind you for someone who is virtually tee total apart from Christmas and birthdays I guess 3 is more than enough
Anyway 9 miles in 1.19 tempo section was 7.43 ( legs thought WTF???) then 7.37..7.38 and 7.32
so glad thats over
Ignored HR and just ran like a mad woman concentrating on pace
I tend to use HR more for the long runs to make sure I a not running the too fast, must have been pretty well spot on as I only did my 17.5miler 2 days ago and managed to hit tempo pace today..albeit a bit of a shock to the legs
Happy new year everyone
It was a lovely morning to run, perfect conditions. I covered the last mile or so of the marathon course. Running from Big Ben down to the palace is absolutely awesome. I can't wait for the race after today.
I covered 9 miles which was a bit short but I haven't been putting myself under any pressure to run over Xmas, I've just been enjoying myself.
Starting tomorrow, no more alcohol, no more hangovers, get the diet back on track and start training properly!
Happy New Year!
No hangover for me, since I quit alcohol six years ago
I have, however, got to sort out my nutrition and lose the spare tyre 
The first run of 2013 is in the bag - 8m with 10 striders run on the treadmill. I get up to my mile pace for the strides and run them in miles six and seven. My heart rate reaches 80% HRR during the strides themselves, just briefly. Not quite sure how much they should be pushed, as the book doesn't seem to specify. During each rest interval my heart rate returns to normal GA range before starting the next stride. I'm unclear as to whether this is considered a hard workout or an easy one? I suppose it lies somewhere between the two?
In any case, I'm happy with the run
Well done on your run NN.
Mark 1981 I was over in London in November and did 4 laps of St James Park taking in Bird Cadge Walk and the Mall I have only ever run this in the marathon before and it's funny but it feels 25% further on Marathon day
well done on the 9 miles.
Tenjiso well done on the 8 mile and 10 strides, these should be for about 75m then ease down for the next 25m up to 90%.
Well I have been racing so here is my report:
I got to Glenariff to find the road into the car park very icy after parking up I went and registered and had a chat with a couple of runners when the heavens opened and everyone headed back to there cars with 15 mins before the start the rain sort of stopped and I managed a warm up mile before stretching and heading over to the start line for the off.
so having run a race on Saturday, 17 miles on Sunday and a recovery run 6 miles yesterday I'm very happy with the result 
The first 1/4 mile saw all the speedsters disappear into the distance before we turned off road and up the first of many hills. The course was very well marshalled and marked out at every turn. I felt quite good and looking down at my Garmin saw that it had packed in.....
At around half way I passed a chap from work who was out to watch this gave me a little boost just before another climb which was followed by a big big drop, I felt as if my legs where running away from the top half of my body......
After yet another hill we passed the finish area which was some 200m below the level we where on, at this stage the women who finished second in the FO race drew level with me and we ran up the final hill neck and neck before the trail turned and was down hill to the finish opening my legs I managed to put 50 m between me and her and managed to keep it at that to the finish line. I came in 37th and second in my age group.
NP well done indeed for racing at all today!! its good to see "us runners" arent quite so mad looks like you were in good company on such an unlikley day to race and with that weather too, congratulations on the category position...brilliant overall position too
As for the strides sessions, out of curiosity NP where did you see how to run them, I dont see to have been able find any specific way, and I certainly dont do mine near 90 % as surely that would be classed a VO2 max session, I just run mine controlled concentrating on form and easing back to easy running for half a mile before doing another set.
HeOw I did Snod a few years ago,lovely run, I did the first 8 miles wearing a bin liner !! it was hammering down !! the scenery is amazing and worth doing it for that alone
Page 143 for me is final week of 55 schedule
..I have the first edition so will have a trawl through thanks.
Treated myself to a lay in this morning, back to work tonight..
..will get that mid week 13 miler done after lunch.
This was exactly the bit that confused me. I couldn't see what they meant by "full speed". It wasn't included in their table of paces or heart rate ranges. I assume that they don't mean "top speed", or at least I hope they don't because I've injured myself doing that type of session.
Did you find somewhere that mentioned 90%, and was it HRR or MHR? If it's MHR then I think I'm in the ballpark at 80% HRR.
Thanks for your help, and great racing start to the new year!
Tenjiso I always worry about muscle pulls if I was to try to sprint at the speed I could manage in my 20s, so have always used effort to assess it by, so a controlled acceleration to sprint and then ease down after about 70/80 yards. Actually I can't sprint longer than that anyway
Thanks to all for HM advice -- am leaning towards thinking it is a bit too soon before London, and will try and find a slightly earlier one.
Meanwhile, back to running this evening after sneakily switching Tuesday's run to Monday in case of hangovers.
Afraid its full speed/full pelt/top speed JF50 like you as I have got older these type of sessions don't agree with me however if I was doing 10 x 100 or 10 x 200 there would possibly be more chance of an injury but because they are included in a run and only 70/75m i havn't had a problem so far.
NN that was me who left a comment on Fetch
well done on your MLR
Managed just over 13 miles this morning but my leg are still heavy from yesterday
Ah found it..but it doesnt say anything about full speed in mine, just technique and form I guess its not a specific speed session as such so as long as we get the legs turning over faster than usual I wont get too hung up on pace..
NP I guessed it was you
your HM time is pretty damn quick !!...why dont you use the same forum name on fetch ? a brillant site for logging training isnt it ? But I find the forum / chat less fun and not so interactive as RW
13 miles in 1 .59 wind and rain as per usual !!
P&D are on the whole very good at explaining everything, but one thing I don't get is: why is LSR and MLR run pace higher (MP+10/20%) than General aerobic (MP+15/25%)? In the plans (as I read it), gen aerobics of 8-10 miles tend to get replaced by MLRs of 11-14 miles, so why increase distance AND pace?
That said, general aerobic of 9 miles done today. I'm in the first week of the sub 55 18 week plan, aiming for MK on May 6th.
I tend to run LSR/MLR based on HR rather than pace for one thing its quite hilly round here and keeping an even pace is impossible...sometimes if I am it tells me to keep to 9.30s whereas today I was running 9.15s finishing at 8.45s for the same effort.
I did spend a few months base training keeping to 70% and saw pace pick up significantly at low HR
Lunchtime Runner I wondered about that too, although having completed the first two and a bit weeks I am suprised that my legs feel so good, and put this down to the slower running, is it because we are working on setting a solid base before things get more challenging? It is not until week 12 that the GA runs start to be replaced so is it a 6 week apaptation phase before it steps up? Working on my paces there is a change of 45 secs a mile between GA and MLRs which as a slower runner doesn't seem too bad (but GA is quite a bit slower than I would have been running anyway).
I am doing the Helsby Half on 20th Jan and would like to use the race to give me an idea of what time to realistically aim for in the Marathon. What would be best to do in the week leading up to it, just follow the plan as normal or cut back on any of the runs to make sure I am fresh?
I am following the sub 55 plan so would normally would have a 9 mile run with 5 at Tempo Pace on the Tuesday and a 10 mile GA run on the Thursday with two 5 mile recovery runs that week too (Weds and Sat). The race will replace the long run that week. Any advice welcome
Pottermiss - I can't help with the HM, I was wondering a similar thing myself.
With regards to pace/HRM everyone on here is going on about all the slower running, but if I use HRM I seem to be doing more at a faster pace than I would normally. The GA runs are not much slower (approx 10-15 secs) than MP which just doesn't seem right.
No Pain, HeOw and Night Nurse Thanks for your words of advice. I am feeling much better now and have been easing back in, including 10.5 miles last Sunday and 8 miles with strides yesterday. Doing the 8 miles yesterday (with a hangover) it was hard to believe that I could barely manage 3 just a week ago! I agree with Night Nurse about the strides. I think it is just about turning the legs over a bit faster than usual and that the specific pace is not so important.
Fiona I would see that as your target MP is faster than you think ....I would go with the HR if you have a good solid base behind you.
Lunchtime as you increase the miles and pace you are also getting fitter from the training
15 West welcome back hope you are enjoying the rain and wind now like the rest of us lol
Pottermiss I would just stick to the plan don't taper and if you have to change the week about to ensure you do a recovery run the day before that would be fine.
NN when I joined Fetch 4 years ago somene was already No Pain
I'm prepared to miss a few sessions the week before and after the HM.
You could jump back into the schedule the week after the race and still have 12 weeks of training which is plenty of time I think, especially when you'll already have a good base.
I did the MLR today 13 miles in 1.39, feeling pretty good at the moment.
The bad news is I've put a couple of pounds on over Xmas, although I was expecting a lot worse when I got on the scales this morning!
Edit - just read no pains post, this is the other alternative. It depends on what you want to achieve from the half marathon race.
I'm hoping to run a pb and find out where I'm at with my fitness so I'm taking the race quite seriously.
Pottermiss I wouldnt bother tapering either...unless a massive half marathon pb is on the cards and more important than the marathon....
15 west, you wont be so smug this time next week