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P + D training for VLM 2013
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Pottermiss, No Pain, thanks for the answers to my pacing question. But I still find it a bit odd. After all, the Long runs, Tempo and Recovery runs etc. all get longer but not faster. On the other hand, maybe it is just their way of easing us into the MLRs - I just wish they had a bit more of an explanation on this point. But what the heck, it's not a big deal.
I too have a HM, in my case 7 weeks before the full Mara. Need to figure out where to shuffle that 20 miler to. The week before?
LR its not wise to increase mileage and pace , you will be getting enough speedy sessions from the tempo and VO2 max sessions
And yes I would do the 20 the week before
Bad news that full speed means max speed... however, I think we can all agree that us oldies have special dispensation to take it a bit easier
NN, that's my point. P&D seem to be advising just that: increasing pace AND distance as you replace "General aerobic" with "Medium Long Runs".
Oh really ? I will have a re read, although to be honest I wouldn't get too hung up on the whole pace thing this early as you get stronger then faster pace becomes easier anyway and alot depends on how hilly it is where you live , head wind etc, that's why I prefer to run by HR, starting at low end finishing towards the upper end.
Fiona HR is the best guide, I have been told if your HR is low for what you feel is a fast pace you are obviously fitter and more capable than you thought...good stuff...
Pottermiss, I am also in Helsby half on 20th. Whether you taper or not depends what you want to get from it. If you really want to go for it and go for a good time, grab a PB etc and see where you are for your marathon goal, then do a mini taper. If you just want to treat as a tough session then don't. Not sure what I'm going to do yet.
5mi easy for me this morning.
After 5m recovery yesterday, I ran 10m GA today. I ran the course a bit faster today than last week (avg. 10:24 vs 10:41), and my heart rate was still lower than in the previous run. That's the kind of measurable progress I like.
Pottermiss - regarding the mini-taper.....pg 28/29 of P&D vol2 has suggestions in the section about tune-up races. Taper for no more than 6 days, and expect at least 5 days to recover from a race of 15k to 25k (see also Table 1.4).
NN - It certainly makes sense to train to HR over varying terrain. What do you do about race day itself? Assuming you have been training almost exclusively with the HRM, do you also wear it during the race?
Having read P&D (and others) mention that we should try to run over similar terrain to our planned race, this got me thinking about a mistake I think I made last year. I ran my long runs over hilly trails, even though my marathon (Milton Keynes) was primarily flat road. My reasoning was that if I could maintain pace over tougher terrain, then surely it would make it easier in the race itself. Only it wasn't easier! In fact, I felt my quads tightening after only eight miles!
Now this may have been due to the weather being cold and exceptionally rainy/windy (I wore shorts
), but I wonder if it was due to me being unprepared for a flat course on road?
I will run hills during this training campaign in order to build leg strength (probably during midweek runs), but I'm making an effort to pick flatter long run routes to mimic (as best as possible) the marathon. Does anybody have any views on this?
Forgot to mention - I wore my new Garmin 310xt today for the first time. I'm already liking the vibration alerts. It was much more stable with the HRM readings than my 305 has been of late.
Setting up the ANT+ stick was a pain. It's not particularly difficult, but the instructions supplied by Garmin were pants. It wasn't helped when I accidentally locked myself out of my garmin account without realising that my mails were directed to an old email account I no longer use. Such fun
However, having set it up properly it works like a charm. Very quickly uploaded to garmin connect.
I really must sit down and put in some decent heart rate ranges, and work out how to set the interval training sessions. I never did use those functions on my 305
Pottermiss - I PBd at HM last time in marathon training - reshuffled the week and dropped the interval session but ran the MLR on the Wed and recovery or GA runs after with a handful of HM Strides thrown in. Pace strategy was just less than target HM pace for first 6 and then accelerate from there IF I felt that it was on without significant risk of injury. You must be prepared to drop back to MP orvslower if it dont feel good though.
Pottermiss, I too am doing Helsby Half and I will be on around week 6 of 55-70. It is a recovery week for me which is lucky (but still around 55 miles!) and I have only a 15 mile run as my long run, so, I may jog the extra 2 miles after the race. Will see. I won't taper. My goal A is marathon, so no tapering to be done for the races as I will lose some of my training and I suspect, what with having 3 kids, I will catch few illnesses along the way, so, when I can train, I will be. My problem is I have a Borders League race a week on Sunday, and I have a 18 miler with 12 at race pace that week. I am thinking, I won't do the tempo that week (as racing), do my 18 miler for this week on this Sunday (as normal), rest Monday, do medium length run Tuesday, Aerobic run Wed, recovery Thursday, 18 miles with MRP mile on Friday (so 5 days between 2 long runs, I think that should be fine), totally rest on Saturday and then do my shorter race on the Sunday. I really need to do these races for club so need to swap things around. Plus, be good to get some speed in the week before Helsby, hopefully see where I am at over the shorter distances, see if my pace has picked up and give me confidence for HM.
This week, so far, been 14 miles easy (9:10m/m) and then did 8.5 with club last night (so LT run) - did 1 mile easy then 7:57; 7:30; 7:30; 7:34; 7:32 then cooled down to easy pace for last 2.5 miles. I was pleased I could do that, means my 14 mile pace wasn't too fast. 5 miles recovery later.
Peace, good advice re HMRP whilst training. I remember doing HM few weeks before Chester, I wasn't fresh for it at all. I started off too fast and flagged last few miles. Still got a PB but didn't race it as well as I could.
Tenjiso I think P&D's point is more that if you are doing a hilly marathon then you need to practise on that type of terrain. Like you, I would assume that training on hilly trails would make the flat road seem relatively easier, but at the same time, you do need to get used to the tarmac as well. I remember the day of Milton Keynes last year, even though I wasn't running it, and I think you can safely blame the weather. It was atrocious!
After running a couple more sessions, a 4 mile recovery and an 8 miler with 4 at HM pace I can see why P&D called the book "Advanced" because I think if you were a new runner or had not run a marathon before it would be very difficult to keep to the paces/hear rates when you take all the other factors into account; wind, hills, road or trail surface, traffic, dog walkers etc. The experience of knowing your perceived effort is absolutely crucial.
Last night ran the 4 mile recovery on my treadmill to keep the pace down more easily, felt like hard work really considering the pace, only made easier by watching another episode of The Wire.
This morning ran the 8 miler with 4 at HM, paces fairly good yet my heart rate was hardly any different from the last couple of slower miles?
I agree with 15 West don't get hung up about pace yet it will come the more training you do.
Ten well done on your 10 miles today it looks like your enjoying running with your new Garmin.
Nice running HeOw
JF50 Nice running.
7 miles tempo for me this morning and 6 easy tonight
HeOw Nice LT session..wish you lived next door to me you would be the perfect training partner, our paces are almost exactly the same.
Ten I have worn my HRM during a race but tend to ignore it if I can as adrenaline can give it a high reading I so have been told..so as long as it doesn't sour TOO high I just get on with it.
JF 50 4 miles on a treadmill would be just about my limit, I agree it feels much harder work...due to the boredom
NP nice doubles and well done on the pod cast mention..
Nice easy 6 mile recovery plod before work for me tonight
Bit warm out there already!
Four miles recovery for me on the treadmill - pretty much for the same reason as JF50. I find it easier to go slower on a treadmill, as the effort somehow feels harder.
NN - good point about the adrenaline! How do you decide what pace you will run on race day? Hope you don't mind the questions - I'm intrigued how you make the switch from training at heart rate to racing by pace/feel.
Go Caz - you are right, but P&D also mention that there are no hill sessions specified in the plan becuase they are only really relevant to running a hilly marathon. They say (pg 146 2nd Ed) "For one of the pancake-flate courses, such as London, Chicago, or Berlin, you'll need to be prepared to run for more than 2 hours over unvarying terrain." In my case... that's 2 hours twice
Regarding the weather at MK, if the same situation arises this year I'll wear running tights rather than shorts. I have found that they have made a difference in my training sessions.
NP - is that the latest episode? I will be listening to that next week. I'm taking part in Jantastic this year (the first year I'm actually up to date with the podcasts) and have joined the PSOF team who post on these forums
A bit of extra motivation to get thos runs in.
15W - did you forget your charger, or didn't you expect to be running so much abroad?
Talking of warmer weather - I ran through a swarm of gnats yesterday morning! That has got to be the earliest time of the year ever that I've had to avoid swallowing insects on a run
Morning all
I'm only on Week 1 of my 18 week plan, so today was 9m GA, which ended up being 1mile w/u, 7m @ 07:40, 1mile c/d, with average HR of 154bpm (exactly 80%).
This is a bit quicker than I intended, but I was just running to feel, and it felt good
Tenjiso - I'm also in Jantastic, and have joined the Jontastic team (my first name is Jon).. PM me if you want to swap details so we can have some friendly rivalry...
Wow, there's been a lot of good training going on over Xmas!
I juggled my schedule a bit and am quite happy to have have completed most of the key runs, just missing last Sunday's long run and a couple of recovery runs.
I completed a 10m GA run this morning (that was originally scheduled for yesterday) and felt really comfortable, so I don't think I've lost any fitness.
The scales also said I was the same weight as before Xmas, so thats a definite result!
I did the 10m GA run last night (swapped from Tuesday) as a commute home, so it was actually 11.5m – which maybe makes it a Medium Long run instead? It felt quite hard at times but perhaps that is because I was carrying a backpack for the first time. Does anyone else find that extra weight makes much difference to the effort level?
Tenjiso - I thought hill sessions were relevant for building strength, not just for preparing for a hilly race. My last marathon schedule included quite a lot of hills, but I am not that sorry to give them a miss! There are hills around where I live anyway...
Go Caz - Quite a few of my runs are with a backpack with my laptop and work stuff on my back, and I definitely find running with a backpack makes a noticeable difference.....
And you are a young pup, which I am not!
Ten I know what my pace and average time is for a given race distance, low 1.40s for a half and that is unlikely to change much now at my age so run 165 bpm and let it climb a bit over the last couple miles if I feel I can push it without crashing. As I said though my HRM for me in a race is more of a guide to stop me going off too fast AND stop me being lazy and running in comfort zone. To be honest I am hoping that with all the base training and high miles I may yet still get a PB in my target half in March it wouldnt be massive but I would love say...1.38
will see.
Re the conversation about training on hills etc..I did Snowdonia marathon a couple years ago and did all my LSRS on Dartmoor and boy was I glad I did, thankfully though VLM is flat, most of my routes here are fairly undulating/hilly, so it will be lovely to run a flat 26.2
Just done 5.5 miles recovery, I am doing my MLR 12 miles with my club tomorrow , then my LSR 15 on Sunday , close together I know but my 15 will be very slow...well the first 10 will be, I am running with my brother who is aiming for 4.15 , he is scheduled 10, so I will pick up the pace for the last 5 on my own,
Hills has just been discussed on the sub 3.15 thread and I have nabbed the following links Hill sprints , Hill sprints 2. I am tempted to do hill sprints and progressive runs instead of tempo intervals due to the fact when I run intervals I tend to break. .
4.5 for me at 9mm this morning with no niggles - 10 or 12 miler calls tomorrow me thinks
I did 3 miles warmup, 4 miles @ HM pace and 2 miles cool down, about half a mile from home I felt fine then suddenly I just started feeling shattered, lightheaded and craving sugar really badly, when I got home I felt absolutely starving.
Has anyone experienced anything like this before?
It's happened a couple of times before, I'm guessing maybe I haven't eaten enough today at work, should I carry a gel or a few sweets with me in future?
Strange, you shouldn't hit the wall until at least 90 minutes in, probably much later. Unless if course you arn't enough eating generally?
Did my 9 mile LT session on the treadmill at 1% incline. Didn't want to run at near full pelt on uneven streets in the dark. Gym's aircon wasn't working so probably compensated for lack of windresistance.
Well done on the 9 miles on the treadmill, that sounds like a mentally tough workout.