P + D training for VLM 2013



  • 18mile run on Saturday to complete week 7 of the 18wk 55mpw plan.

    The run was ok, considering the weather was a bit grim and I didnt really feel like i ever got into a good rhythm. Finished it in 3:09:00 which was 10:30 per mile, which is in the range I intended, so that's a positive.

    Right ankle was feeling a bit stiff to walk on before the run, but felt ok when running, then stiff again afterwards. Decided to treat myself to a couple of pints on Saturday night, and felt rubbish and stiff all over on Sunday. Still a little stiff today, despite drinking lots of water, I think booze and running just don't make very good bedfellows.

    No missed runs so far, although i did cut short my 7mi recovery jog on Friday to 5.5 miles, as i had to fit it into a lunchbreak because of other commitments outside of work. Other than that, have followed the plan pretty much to the letter, and finding the training paces ok, which is a surprise to me. Before starting this plan I'd done about 4 months of very slow running (see the HADD thread for what that entails) and was worried I wouldn't be able to cope with the mara and half-mara pace runs, but seems to be ok so far. feeling a little lethargic today, and shoulders are pretty stiff, but a decent sleep and i'll be good to start week8 tomorrow.

    Well done everyone on your runs.

  • Sensible decision to can the MP run chickadee.  Hope you're fully recovered soon.

  • Ten apart from one set of strides in the week all the other runs are either GA or long run pace, yet the following week is the recovery week and contains VO2max and strides through the week, feels like this week is easier.


  • JF50 - I see what you mean.  I assumed they made the intensity easier because the length of the midweek MLR was pretty high.

    Mind you, I've already said that P&D's definition of a "recovery" week is somewhat at odds with my own idea of recovering image

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭

    I had also noticed, JF50, that this week is a bit at odds with what we've been doing until now and that it looks easier than next week's "recovery"! However, as I may be doing a race on Sunday, that is quite handy. 

  • Chickadee -- think you made the right choice. I like to think this is the 'sensible' training thread as well as being hardcore... there's lots of macho 'man up and get on with it' crap elsewhere on the forum it seems, but doing a hard run with a possible chest infection doesn't seem likely to do the overall training much good, and you've plenty of time to catch up.

    Tenjiso: great run! Sounds like you're really enjoying it again too.

    Agent Ginger, I get really stiff shoulders too, especially if I run fast; a side effect of spending lots of time at a computer, I think. Do you stretch them at all? Or if you have one of those long foam rollers there are some good exercises you can do.

    Today is a rest day for me and I had a sports massage (being extra careful after the last injury) when I was actually congratulated on my flexible hamstrings for the first time ever! Then I'm swapping tomorrow with Saturday on the 55-70 programme because I don't have time for two runs on Tuesdays, so will do 7 miles with strides before work instead.

  • Can anybody help me out and post this weeks schedule for me?

    I'm at work at the moment and need to organise a few things for later in the week and I need to fit my training around everything.

    I've forgotten to bring the book with me.

    I'm on the 55-70, 18 week plan. Thanks!
  • Okay, but I've got the first edition so might not be exactly the same: Tues Recovery 6 miles am, 4 miles pm; Weds MLR 15 miles; Thurs Recovery 6 miles; Fri MLR 13 miles; Sat Recovery + speed 7 miles with 6x 100m strides; Sun Marathon specific 15 miles with 12 miles @ marathon race pace.

  • That sounds about right.

  • Ive got the opportunity of a 10 mile race on Sunday and was wondering whether it would be a good 'swap' for the Marathon pace long run. I'd make the mileage up to 15 miles overall, but would be doing 10 miles at faster than marathon pace (hopefully) and not marathon pace specific running. Does anyone think this would be a good / bad idea? Any views welcome before I make a decision. Cheers.

  • I was wondering why I picked up my first little injury/niggle after my long run on Saturday so I decided to look at my training log.

    The week before last I did my long run on the Sunday (20miles) then had a day off on the Monday. That following week I trained as normal but had to swap my long run to the Saturday, so basically my long runs were six days apart.

    In those 6 days I actually ran 84 miles, so that works out at an average of 16.8 miles a day because I only actually ran 5 days out of 6. It's no wonder I ended up injured!

    I just thought I'd mention it because I know that a lot of people swap their Sat and Sun runs around.

    It's something I've never really thought about too much before but if it turns a 64 mile week into an 84 mile one we've gotta be careful.
  • I'd say it sounds like a good idea Chris, I'm skipping the marathon paced run this week because I'm racing a half marathon the week after.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Chris - I think it as an ok idea. Does that help?!

    Going to be in london for the latter part of this week - still plan on sticking to schedule for friday and saturday - but may have to move sunday's long run to monday (very early) as I might not be in any fit state to run sunday. On the other hand I might be ok.

  • NP the mileage in the schedule doesn't reduce once the speed sessions are introduced, in fact it hasn't quite peak yet.
    JF50 thats a very impressive 20 mile.... run how old ???image
    Fiona I too despise those bloody windy long runs , nice to have a tail wind to bring you home
    Chick take care and get well soon
    Ten you will never regret going for a run, EVER , but regret NOT going so well done and nice pace !!

    Chris I too have a 10 mile race on Sunday, if you intend to really race it you wont feel like adding another 5 miles, I will do 1.5 miles warm up then race then maybe 2 miles max cool down after, but being younger you may be able to do more I guess, you will probably have a few different answers to that question, so go with what you feel is the most sensible, you will be vulnerable after racing 10 miles so dont over do it. There is no point in adding miles for the sake of it, we are far enough into the schedule to have some great endurance miles already behind us I intend to follow the plan up to and including weds 15 

    Mark I  ran my long runs just 5 days apart Sunday then Friday and like you did over 80 in 6 days, no ill effects though, but wont be making a habit of it.

    I lost my mobile last night , it dropped out my running jacket pocket !

    And today the hot tap on the bath/shower isnt working !! bugger ( sorry completely off topic)

    Just hoping things dont come in 3s

  • While I was editing Chris you had 2 different answers to mine..typical..personally I do think its wasted miles there will be no quality if you have just raced.

  • Lots of reading back again, some great runs over the weekend as everyone builds the long runs most of us are now at max distance for the long runs image

    Chris making it up to 15 or 16 would cover the long run.

    NN another few weeks and then it's reduced by a few miles and up's the speed. image

    54x25m swim this morning and 6 miles recovery early evening image
  • Think I'll do the race, but ease off the pace a bit and try and get a goof 4 mile warm up on gently before the go. Should be able to manage a 2 mile shuffle at the end with a bit of luck if I stay steady for the race. Beats the marathon pace run on my own i guess.

    Good luck in your 10 miler too NN. We will have to compare how we managed to get the overall mileage in with the race - I have a feeling you will do more miles than me overall! I am already thinking of my excuses!

  • Chickadee - the right decision and I hope you are ok.  Your times are very inspiring to me by the way, brilliant. 

    Chris - yes, do the 10 miler and bloody go nail it mate.  Could you not do the 15 miles with MRP mid week and swap the LT run for the 10 miler?  

    Good running Ten - are you feeling back on form?  

    Mark - I hear you, I too did my long runs 6 days apart and guess what, I seem to have picked up a niggle too.  The lower part of arch of foot (nearer to toes than heel) has been a bit sore since Friday (no idea what it is).  I have done 7 miles with strides yesterday and easyish 8 miles tonight (in new Mizuno trainers) and it is a bit niggly tonight, just tender when I press it. May have to bench myself for couple of days.  In 10 years of running and 18 months of marathon training on and off, I haven't had anything like this before. I do believe the trainers I were running in have caused it as they had had their full innings and were on their way out.  Anyone any ideas what it is?


  • Ouch, HeOw, that doesn't sound good. I've never had anything like that either, but could it just be bruised? e.g. from running on non-smooth terrain in shoes with worn-out soles.

  • HeOw wrote (see)


    Chris - yes, do the 10 miler and bloody go nail it mate.  Could you not do the 15 miles with MRP mid week and swap the LT run for the 10 miler?  



    Yes thats what I intend doing then taking it easy from Wed

    Chris it depends how important to you a good time in the 10 mile race is.. if you think you are in PB  shape and its a decent course save your legs for the race. I am not too bothered about getting it up to 15 miles myself...I guess we could just wait till later in the day and get a decent proper recovery run done at least there is a point to that rather than slogging away  the junk miles

    The race I am doing isn't really a PB course its hilly in Plymouth so I shall just concentrate on bettering last years time..I did actually get bronze county medal on that course last year with a fairly pooh time of 1.19

    Heow try the usual ice etc hope  it feels better soon it could be bruised !

    Track session tonight was crap I shouldn't really have done it the day after an LT session but my club mates were all doing it and I dont like missing out ! its not even in the schedule today should have been a rest day..

    did 5 1k reps average pace of 7 min miles 4.19...4.20..4.19..4.23..4.25..freezing cold and windy...why are we doing this ?

  • Thanks Heow. Think I'll give it a go. I love Mizuno trainers too. Def my favourites. Got a few different ones.

    I had a bit of pain at the front of the foot last year by the toes. This was diagnosed as Metarslagia by the doctor- which is a pointless diagnosis as it just means foot pain and it could be caused by any number of things - helpful hey?! On a positive note though I sort of self diagnosed tendon pain which I think was caused by running in old trainers too long. I just iced and rested for a few days. Put my foot in cold water whenever I could and also went for accupuncture (I swear by accupuncture - but thats a whole other thread!). Also if its bad you may want to try some ibuprofen. Hopefully a bit of rest, new trainers and icing and you'll be back in no time.

    Having said all that, I have no medical experience or knowledge at all, so please feel free to ignore me and listen to any better advice you get.

  • I am also wondering whether it is just bruising to be honest.  Or just wishful thinking...  God I hope it ain't plantar issues!   Thanks NN.

  • Thats the trouble if you ask or google there could be 100s of answers...just ice it and take some antiflams rest and see how it is in a couple of days, 

  • I nearly forgot. I also wore these. Cheap and cheerful and could be good if this is the area that is hurting that is? They do them in Boots for a couple of quid.


  • A day after telling eveyone that I was going to be sensible and rest in order to nurse a few niggles, I went and ran yesterday's 20m tonight.

    I was fairly sensible for the 1st 15 miles but then did the last 5 progressively quicker with the last mile being sub 7 min. (I really need to be more disciplined!)

    Overall I averaged 8.03 min/miles and my average HR was 75% of max.

    Whether this was a good idea or not remains to be seen but since getting back I've stretched, foam rolled and had a cold bath so hopefully I'm not too sore in the morning.

  • Who needs sensible?! If we were sensible, we'd be at home watching the tele in the warm instead of out in the cold, freezing rain running every day. If its not hurting too much then don't worry about it. A great run as well by the sounds of it. Get in there!

  • Ziggy we all do it hope you feel better today, looks like a quality 20 though well done. And the heart rate shows you were running within yourself..super image

    I always start off sensible then get carried away with sessions and often end up doing 2 hard sessions back to back to fit in around shifts, trying to leave easier sessions for between night shifts,, the problem then is quality/ speed suffers, last nights 1ks were way off.

  • NN,

    The hot tap not working shouldn't effect your after run cold baths at least.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Sounds like a good run there Ziggy, especially doing that last 5 progressively quicker, and very sensible recovery too. I have lots of little niggles which I am running through at moment, the key is to know when a niggle is getting worse and is a real risk of becoming a proper injury - then it's time to slow down a bit.#

    Double day today for me, 6 this morning, 4 this afternoon. Am home alone with the kid this week...so have to fit it round her a bit too. Oh, and it's pancake day apparently.

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