Is the rest of the World

1356

Comments

  • I've only done 5 races in my life so I guess my friends aren't suffering from compassion fatigue yet! I agree with you 100% Pammie.
    Moe, sorry if we are drifting from the point.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    There's always other sporting events/challenges to raise money for charity

    cycle rides
    own individual challenge running one end of the country to another!
    running the 3 peaks etc
    swimathons
  • Pammie*Pammie* ✭✭✭
    Hilly-Those are the type of challenges i think i will eventually do i don't think i will stop at the marathon, but after i've run one i may change my mind
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Good on you Pammie!

    I'd like to do the 3 peaks and a cycle from one end of the country to the other, but when is another matter!
  • Pammie*Pammie* ✭✭✭
    Undecided what i fancy doing yet but i guess i've plenty of time
  • I got asked at work why I only asked for sponsorship when I am running a marathon. As I race 40+ times per year I'd have poor colleagues!

    To me running a 10k is a regular event, the marathon is someting special (without wanting to reignite a former thread) where people recognise the achievement in just completing it.

    It struck me ...

    How many races are we actually talking about here?

    FLM obviously but they adopt the measures hilly outlines, so no real problem from my perspective this year.

    I've done the Nottingham and Sheffield Half / Full Marathon events with around 8000 competitors. Again no problem there as you can make sure you're near the front of you expect to be one of the quicker runners.

    From what I've heard of the GNR I don't fancy it - no gradation beyond the elites. Also a very narrow starting area and only the one rather than 3 @ FLM. This is added to big traffic congestion problems.

    What other big events have people found a problem at? Is it anything with the word `Great' in front of it?

    Going back to FLM places, for me the problem is NOT the charity places but the people who get a place, don't bother to train (or even attempt to train) properly and just turn up on the day for the event.

    To me they're not trying to either:-

    1. Run a fast time to win / get a UK championship medal

    2. Raise money and profile for a charity.

    3. Test themselves to the limit against their own personal limitations of genetics, age, family and work commitments, injury and illness setbacks.

    But there's no way to weed these people out. They get a ballot place fairly and squarely. It's just a shame they don't focus their efforts on either training, fundraising or both.

    That place could have gone to someone wanting to raise money or race for a pb.
  • Lady Lucan, how slow doesn't really come into it, Michael Watson was a bl**dy hero doing the FLM as far as I am concerned, as is (I think) in a funny sort of way the guy in the diving suit!

    Barnsley has outlined the problem pretty well above.
  • And all of this stems from running with dogs?
    Alot of frustrated runners out there.
    Having been at the beginning of this thread and now reading to this point, it strikes me that there seems to be a divide between the subscribers to this site, which I find rather sad.
    Why criticise any runner?
    Does anyone get my drift?
    Why do we have to prove ourselves to participate in any race other than those that specifically request a sub 3hrs.
    I run to prove that I can. I have no wish to run a marathon just because everyone expects me too when I tell them I run and race.
    How many 100m athletes run marathons?
    Let's show a bit of comraderie here guys.
  • Interesting thread this.

    I might be overanalysing, but here goes :)

    I first thought why don't clubs put on events where entry is restricted by a qualifying time? Surely if there is a demand....?
    Ans: There are already club, county, regional? championships. These should cater for the seasoned club runner wanting a fast time. (Not sure about the regional championships)

    Another reason not to put on such races is number of entrants. Given that the quality of racing has gone down in Britain then race organisers may only get 10's of entries even if they put in a qualifying time of say 4hrs for a marathon. Would not be worth running, especially for a marathon.
    America can get away with it just because they have so many more people than Britain. By the laws of averages, they will have more sub 3:15 marathoners than GB so it is worth putting on the race.

    Another reason could be pc? Do race organisers get sued if they say slow people can't enter a 'popular' race?
    Dunno. Is this the reason there can be no races where the entire entry is qualified by time?
    Could be the reason why Boston has its qualifying time, but you can still get a place if you are slower. Don't remember if you have to buy the place through a tour operator though and be an international.

    Do UK Athletics have rules that say no race can be entirely qualifed by time?
    Therefore allowing as many people to enter as possible?

    As for the point about drinks stations etc
    If each club that entered had to provide x marshals/helpers as well, would that not solve the problem. It may be necessary to subsidise the marshals/helpers but it may work.

    So I am asking race organisers and seasoned club runners who want a really fast time, why are there no races with qualifying times? Is it because of one of the reasons I have outlined above?
    And if there are no reasons, whats stopping you putting on such a race?

    To counter the point about not enough time, as was pointed out by George Bush, if the president of the USA can find time to run, then anybody should be able to find time to run. (I won't get into how he has a staff etc). And remember, ex-President Clinton was/is a 8 min miler.
  • I think people on this thread are moving closer to consensus. I agree with what Barnsleyrunner and Moe said in their last postings.

    It seems to come down to race organisation which maybe needs to move with the times as the sport has recently become more popular with people who would not consider themselves to be athletes.

    BTW Among "proper" club runners do you find it easy to get into FLM if you want to? I play tennis at a club and every year I can get Wimbledon tickets easy enough either through the club ballot, public ballot or other ways and means. Is it the same in running with FLM entry?

    Another BTW.... Hilly, I did the BT Swimathon this year (5K) even though I am worse at swimming than I am at running. Over the course of 200 lengths the fast swimmers had to overtake me about 100 times each! They begged me to take up running instead!
  • Not a problem getting into FLM last year as 6 of us got in on GFA places, a few were in on the ballot and we had 3 club places for the unlucky ones.

    However 3 of those GFA ers and another one who would have run this year are in the 3 to 3:15 bracker, so no place this year.

    I think if we were determined enough we'd find a way!
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Not all "proper" club runners are fast enough to make the GFA qualifying time-here lies the problem with club runners not getting a more balanced amount of the FLM places.

    Those who say that clubs get places, yes they do, but we have a club of 60 and get only 2 places.

    Considering that clubs bring so much to athletics and races it's a shame they don't get offered more of the 'honey pot'.

    I'm not a bitter runner either as I've got in for the last 3 years with GFA. But I know club runners who've been trying for years for a ballot place and only from last year if you don't get in after 5 years you get a place. Not everyone wants to enter for a charity who expects 'pots' of money to be raised.

    IMO club's should get a much fairer amount of places for those who are not able to qualify with GFA yet race year after year to keep in smaller races to keep clubs alive!

    Maybe gone off the point here a bit and don't know why it always comes back to FLM.

    Anyway, whatever, whoever, however, enjoy your running:o)
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Sorry that should say "yet race year after year in smaller racer to keep clubs alive!"
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    Well done LL on your 5k swim! I do swim, but I'd find 5k a challenge!!
  • Thanks Hilly. I had never swum more than 36 lengths before doing that and didn't plan to do it but once I got in the pool I just couldn't stop. I was in the water half an hour longer than the next slowest person and could hardly stand afterwards. Mad fool! I was so proud of that medal. Haven't been swimming since except with the children.
  • I totally agree with what Hilly said - the clubs are the basis of everything.
  • I heard its easier to get into FLM through the ballot if you apply from overseas. Has anyone else heard that? If its true it does sound unfair.
    So far as smaller races are concerned, there doesn't seem to be any problem getting in as long as you apply in advance. Won't the clubs benefit if more people take up running and enter their races? I would never have thought of running, let alone entering races if it weren't for the Race For Life series of 5Ks. Don't knock it!
  • One possibility for clubs that don't get many places might be to apply to help out at FLM on the day? I understand that clubs that provide marshalls / baggage bus helpers / water station helpers etc get a few extra places each?

    Although I've only been running a year I've marshalled at FLM for 5 years to help out one of my local clubs. Each year I look at everyone run past and think "you're all mad" then go away with this nagging "I'd like to do that" feeling. This year it might be me ;-)


  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    LL-yes the clubs would benefit from more people taking up running if they also supported the smaller club races. However, FLM is often made up with people who have no intention of doing club events. I know several who decided they wanted to do FLM after seeing it on TV-great, but they did very little training as they'd decided to walk most of it. Then they say they've done FLM. So what you may add-well why should they have a place in a running race over a club runner who trains several times a week, when they've done no hard training and have no intention of running again. IMO it makes a mockery out of the challenge of running a marathon.

    I'm not sure on the entry system for overseas runners.
  • HillyHilly ✭✭✭
    M-Marshalling is a good idea and a great thing to do, but if you have to travel hundreds of miles to do it then you also have the expense of hotels etc.

    Most club runners marshall several races a year anyway in their own local areas.
  • Why are the club runners so keen on travelling hundreds of miles to run FLM anyway?
  • hilly - very true. was just a thought - definitely easier for clubs closer to london.

    i've marshalled at a number of races this year since i took up running. they've all been brilliant fun in their own way.
  • LL - reasons for running FLM for this club runner

    1. It's the biggest running event in the country. As running is my main hobby and pleasure I like to take part in the biggest mass-participation athletics event in the world. I do more than my fair share of `smaller' events so want to be there on the big day as well. Just like if I supported Hull City all season and they got to the FA Cup Final - I'd want to be there.

    2. I train hard to get pbs. I think FLM gives me a good chance of this due to the fantastic support, flat course, good provision of drinks and excellent atmosphere. Even without all the add-ons I'd do it for the course - in terms of both profile and interest.

    3. It's the one event everyone knows about. I get asked by friends and colleagues if I'm doing it - it gives me a chance to talk about running and to raise a few quid for a charity as well.

    4. Loads of other club runners do it and you can swap stories and experiences for months afterwards when you meet them at races.
  • Sounds like the pros outweigh the cons.
  • They do, wouldn't miss it for the world!
  • In fact most people I speak to don't realise all marathons are the same distance!

    When you say you're doing Nottingham or Sheffield they ask is it as long as the London Marathon?

  • Ditto............... Agree whole heartedly with Barnsley (I'm no a football fan, but a good example all the same).

    I hope they get this e-mail notification fixed soon, it's going to take ages to delete them all if they are getting backed up!
  • I'm going to have about a million emails if they're all backed up somewhere!
    BTW, I saw on another thread that FLM has changed the definition of Good For Age. Now that does seem unfair. I would suspect an ulterior motive. Obviously it doesn't make any difference to me but in another year or so, who knows.....
  • Oh the thinks we could think...

    (as Dr Seuss wrote)
  • Go-KLGo-KL ✭✭✭
    Ok, to keep this thread going (and to add a whiff of controversy ;)
    Sam Panther touched on the Boston Marathon having a qualifying time based on graded times determined by your sex and age. For Boston these are:
    Men:
    18-34 3 hours 10 minutes,
    35-39 3 hours 15 minutes,
    40-44 3 hours 20 minutes,
    45-49 3 hours 30 minutes,
    50-54 3 hours 35 minutes,
    55-59 3 hours 45 minutes,
    60-64 4 hours 00 minutes
    65-69 4 hours 15 minutes,
    70-74 4 hours 30 minutes
    75-79 4 hours 45 minutes
    80 and over 5 hours 00 minutes

    Women:
    18-34 3 hours 40 minutes
    35-39 3 hours 45 minutes
    40-44 3 hours 50 minutes
    45-49 4 hours 0 minutes
    50-54 4 hours 05 minutes
    55-59 4 hours 15 minutes
    60-64 4 hours 30 minutes
    65-69 4 hours 45 minutes
    70-74 5 hours 00 minutes
    75-79 5 hours 15 minutes
    80 and over 5 hours 30 minutes

    Despite these quite tough times Boston remains one of the oldest, most prestigious and most popular marathons in the world, with the limit placed at 20,000 competitors.

    Rather than every major race in this country being a welcome all affair, I think that Britain could benefit from a race like this on the same organisational scale to accompany the London Marathon. Why:?
    1. A major reason for the FLM being so oversubscribed is that there is no comparable (marathon) alternative in this country in terms of prestige, size or location (I accept you could go to Europe for a race, but for many this is not a viable proposition for many in terms of cost, practicality, or desireability). If there was an option for the quicker athlete to take part in a race of comparable prestige then some of the pressure on the FLM to try and please and accommodate everyone may be reduced.
    2. There would be a real incentive for runners to try and improve their times to try and gain entry into this qualifying only race. As Sam Panther said as there are less people living in this country the qualy times may have to be revised, but they should still be a challenge.
    3. As you would require a qualifying time to take part it would raise the profile and popularity of smaller marathons across the country – meaning that those would grow in stature and possibly take some of the burden of importance from the London Marathon.

    Before I am berated for being elitist and discriminating beginners and the less able (which I am not trying to do), consider why do all our major races have to welcome all abilities? I’m not saying that all races should have a time limit, just that there is room for a major race that has one. Take too the Comrades marathon – one of the appeals of the race is its severe 11 hour cut off time. Just as many people who run for the fun of it and don’t care for times, there are those who relish the challenge of being competitive and pushing themselves to achieve a marker laid down by others.
Sign In or Register to comment.