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Halstead marathon
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I think I'm probably guilty of overdoing it - not sure I'm really in 'recovery' mode. After Halstead I took Monday-Thursday off and ran Friday of that week, did 5 miles easy. Then 10 miles Sunday, on an undulating route but I did take it at LSR pace for a change! This week I did 7 on Tuesday (average 8:25) and 3 yesterday pretty slow (decided to explore a new footpath which was horrible - rutted, muddy and I turned my ankles constantly. Won't be venturing down there again!) Planning 5 tonight in the delightful weather and will probably do 10 again Sunday.
Then I think I'll work out some sort of light schedule for the next few weeks as I really don't like having no plan to follow, even if I'm not training for anything specific.
Minks - P&D have an excellent post marathon recovery schedule that gets you back up to 40 miles per week after 4 or 5 weeks. I've followed it so far (but ran a bit too fast most of the time). The week after the marathon I did 4 on Wednesday, 5 Friday and 6 Sunday all meant to be at recovery pace. (15 miles for the week)
This week I did 5 on Tuesday, 5 on Wednesday and I will do 6 tonight and 8 on Sunday - all recovery. (24 Miles for the week)
Next week is;
Tue: 5 recovery (8:30 - 9:00mm)
Wed: 5 recovery
Thur: Rest
Fri: 7 mile general aerobic (8:20mm) + 8 x 100m strides
Sat: 5 mile Recovery
Sun: 9 mile general aerobic
Total of 31 miles for the week.
The following week is 36 miles and 41 the week after. How does that sound?
if you like it, I'll post up the next two weeks schedule.
Jason - good going there. If you can run sub 40 for a 10k, with the correct level of endurance work you should be looking comfortably at Sub 3:15 marathon. I couldn't get near a sub 40 10k at the moment. I'm trying to get to that stage this summer! I bet you get there first!!!
Angela - take care there. it's very easy to pick up something nasty straight after a marathon when your immune system is low.
DS2, thanks for that. I have the P&D book and was looking at the recovery schedule. I'd have to jiggle the days around to make it work for me but might be do-able. I was considering using the 18/55 schedule for next year's Halstead but I know when I looked at it before I thought it would be a struggle because key sessions seem to change days from one week to the next and I can only run on certain days. I always think if you mess around too much with a schedule you're no longer following it, but I need to take another look and see whether I can tweak it a bit to make it work for me without losing the essence of what it's trying to achieve.
Have you used it before? What did you think? Been lurking on the P&D thread (and in fact just posted today) and a few folk seem to have dropped the recovery runs in favour of rest or cross-training, which might be a more workable option for me to allow me to get the key sessions in on the days I can manage to run.
How did you work out the various paces? I was never sure what they meant by 'general aerobic'. Although I was guilty of doing pretty much all my training too fast for VLM (and Halstead), I don't want to end up going too far the other way and doing everything too slowly. One constraint is that the only day I can do the MLR is Tuesday, two days after LSR - I'm a bit concerned that's too soon? Also not sure when to get in the faster stuff given the way my week ends up being structured (basically I'm always too tired to do the fast sessions!)
Oh yeah - I forgot about your difficulties in the structure of the week. Before I answer that, I'll give you my thoughts on P&D.
This marathon was the first time I've run a negative split in my 10 marathons and I would put that down to being stronger than before (ie. more endurance). I think I can directly attribute this to the number of long and medium long runs I did. The downside of that was the training felt hard work, and plodding (like you) has never been my strong point. Consequently, half way through I felt quite stale.
I missed a number of the speed sessions and managed only three really in the whole 18 weeks. I think this proves that, at the speed we are trying to run at, endurance sessions benefit us more for the marathon.
The sessions I got most out of were the tempo runs, typically 9 miles with 4 or 5 in the middle at HMP. These were hard!!! And the LSR's with a portion at Planned MP. I usually ran the MP part at the end to mimic running at that pace on tired legs. I actually found these harder in training than I did on the day.
I have found a new love of the taper. I really think it prepared me well. I did do that 17 miler 12 days before but I think I would do that again but probably 14 days before. I did 5 mile warm up, 7 at MP and 5 warm down. It was good for confidence.
My overall feeling is that P&D has some good ideas but I didn't like following it religiously. I tried to do the 55-70 plan but abandoned it after 7 or 8 weeks.
I would do this next time. I, actually, like doing similar sessions on each day of the week, so:
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: 9 miles including 5 at Tempo (alternating with a MLR fortnightly)
Wednesday: 5 miles recovery (alternating with a MLR fortnightly)
Thursday: Intervals (eg. 6 x 800m or 4 x 1 mile)
Friday: 5 miles recovery
Saturday: rest
Sunday: LSR (with a number 5-10 at MP every other week)
I don't know if you could incorporate this into your diary. I think the MLR is probably more important than the intervals so perhaps you should try to do the tempo session and the LSR every week. I found I could do an MLR and a LSR within 2 days if I rested in between.
Would this work?:
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: MLR (11 - 16 miles)
Wednesday: 5 miles Recovery
Thursday: Tempo or recovery
Friday: tempo or recovery
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: LSR (including 5-10 at MP every other week)
I think you can get away with doing 2 of 3 key session each week. That is, 2 of MLR/LSR and Tempo.
If you want to PM me your email address we could discuss it further. I hate this view on here and can't remember what I've said! Hope this helps.
Just realised I didn't talk about speeds
Recovery is at 9mm for me, although I would often run at 8:40mm
Tempo miles are at HMP so for me just inside 7mm. Warm up and down for these runs at 8:30mm seemed about right although if the first one was slower I didn't mind!
MLR & LSR. First third at 9mm, second at MP + 20%, third at MP + 10%. So finishing at around 8mm- 8:10mm. Staying slow was hardest!
LSR's with MP was 8:30-8:40mm with the last ones at 7:30 or quicker!
General aerobic was MP + 15% (about 8:20mm).
I never felt I would be able to run fast enough on the day because of all the slow miles but people kept saying trust in the training. It seems they were right!!!
Swapped my 6 miles for 6 beers last night instead!! Oh well, it is the recovery phase after all!!!
Like! I'm in Oxford doing the same with pimms!
Funny, I ditched my run last night too - weather was crap and decided I had got out there in inclement conditions enough times during marathon training because I had to, so why go out two weeks after the marathon when I really didn't need to? Enjoyed a couple of glasses of wine and went to bed late instead.
Will run tomorrow though, the same 10 miles as last Sunday. Got my brother and his family coming for the day tomorrow so will need to get my quiet time in early while I can! Will be out at 7am. Love early morning runs on a Sunday, it feels like you have the whole world to yourself.
Might be a tad too late but good luck Angela 2day
speak later with race reports etc
Hiya, how was ur race Jason?? Afraid I'm still wrapped up warm trying not to speak as That triggers my cough... No running for me today!!
Hi everyone back from the race
got totally slaughtered out there today in the heat. Came home in 42:58 so not too bad and still knocked off 3mins from the P.B.
not got any excuses for this one I'm afraid just went out a tad too fast for the beginning, tried holding on as long as I could but just slowly dropped the pace
forgot how challenging the hills were
all in all I'm still a happy bunny and will be back for more next year
sorry to hear Angela hopefully the recoveries going well.
Jason, it was hot out there on Monday - and very breezy - so very well done: a 3-minute PB is fantastic! I don't think you need excuses - a PB is a PB!
Angela, hope you're feeling better ...
DS2, I PM'ed you my email address a few days ago - did you get it?
Have to say I think I should have taken a proper week's rest after Halstead. Every run is feeling really hard at the moment, despite slowing the pace right down (or maybe that's why!)
Hello, hello, Feeling much better now! Had a proper rant on my blog last night about non-runners though - was getting sick of them telling me I'm sick because I run... what about all the other people I work with who had the same illness and don't run... perhaps could it have been an immune response to an infection, rather than to running!!
Teehee! Minks, I suspect that you're either fighting something off, or could just do with a day or 2 of rest?
Minks- i totaly agree, i got sunburnt aswell
i look hilarious.
Angela- Glad your back to it. Apparently Running lowers the immune system for like 24-48hrs ive heard
Does get annoying when people blame it on running too much
Yeah, as does alcohol, not eating fruit and veg, being overweight, being inactive. These things can also lead to far worse illnesses that what I've got!
I'm just sayin!!!
Man, I'm so grumpy... neeeeeeeed to go for a run!
Oh, I forgot to say well done for smashing your pb!... That was implied, obviously...
thanks
yeah i know what you mean, everythings bad, blah blah
Dont rush out and try and run if your still weak. Tried that one once and felt awful after!!
hi all,
Been away for a few days so no internet access on my phone!
Jason - fantastic run mate. I would say that is about where I would be for a 10k.
Angela - sorry you are still struggling but take your time. It's never a real problem after the marathon to pick something up. It's also one of the reasons I never book races straight after a marathon.
minks - I did get your PM thanks. Just not had a chance to reply! I have now taken a whole week off running. I just decided I couldn't go a whole year without a break so if I was going to rest a bit, now was the time to do it. I feel better for it - well my legs do! Even though I was running well after the marathon I couldn't see how it was doing me any good. It's been nice to have a couple of drinks when I fancy them and not have to think about training. I may not run now until next week and then pick it back up.
Angela, it's common to come down with things straight after a marathon as your immune system will be compromised after the hard effort. Just be kind to yourself until you're fully recovered. I know what you mean though - I'm usually like a bear with a sore head during enforced breaks from running!
DS2, I wonder if I should take a complete break for a week or so as well. Because I didn't perform as I wanted to at either London or Halstead I think psychologically I don't feel that I've earned a break. I usually take a complete week off after a marathon.
I have to confess to not feeling particularly motivated at the moment. I think if I have a break I'll struggle to get going again, which is why I'm continuing to just tick over. I should probably find a race or two to give me something to aim for, but don't even feel much like doing that at the moment!
Minks - I may be running the Southend Half on 9 June with a friend who is quite new to running. It won't be very quick so may be a nice LSR with company. Any chance of making that?
I'll see if I can look at the plan tonight. I need to get something on paper as well.
You more than earned a rest. You were, almost certainly carrying some kind of injury for the majority of the marathon!
DS2, would love to do Southend but unfortunately have a family commitment that day (niece's 2nd birthday). Not sure my legs are really up for it anyway to be honest - I need to do some stretching I think as everything feels incredibly tight, especially my left hamstring, and quite sore after a run.
Minks - do you have a foam roller???
I tend to get tight hammys, I think they are naturally a bit short anyway- i used to be the least flexible rower in my boat because of them, but I find that if I use foam roller to loosen hip flexors, and glutes, that that whole kinetic chain is relieved - ie, hammys and calves.
Defintely good to get a stretch in too. For the first 10ish weeks of the last marathon campaign, I would do the P&D stretching circuit whilst watching TV on a saturday night - always seemed to make me feel good, don't really know why I stopped doing it tbh, should probably get on and get that started again
I think lurgy is gone... I still cough a little bit, but this is just dregs of the phlegm... I'm pretty sure anyway. Might see if I can go for a bike ride tonight, or if its raining, then a run...
Hi Angela, no - no, haven't got a foam roller although lots of people swear by them. Might get one, probably a good idea. May also book in to see my chiro - not scheduled to go now until September but often the root cause of my tight hamstrings is my back so it may just need a little tweak, especially after a marathon and a half in 3 weeks.
Glorious here today, what an improvement
Hope it lasts over the weekend. Took the day off today to spend with my son as he's on half term - we went to see Epic; fantastic film although a little on the long side for a six year old. He was very good, sat still and didn't fidget but I think he was getting a bit fed up by the end! I absolutely loved it though!
Right, best get off here and go and collect him from karate. Might even venture out for my run in shorts tonight!!
Good morning! How was everybody's weekends? Weren't we blessed with some glorious weather?
although my cough still remained on Saturday morning, I figured some deep breathing- the kind caused by exercise was just what I needed to clear it. Plus I've joined Juneathon- a challenge where you run (or do something active) everyday in June, and blog about it everyday too. Figured it was a good way to enter into the start of training for the next marathon as well as make some cyber running friends.
saturday afternoon I did a 9 mile run- easy- it averaged 9:32mm which is almost a minute per mile faster than my easy pace was pre- marathon. I'm sure part is down to Increased fitness and another part down to the enforced 2 week break from running. Yesterday I went out for a 54 mile bike ride- furthest I've ever cycled but felt easier than the 38 miler a couple of weeks ago, probably as that was when I was coming down with the lurgie. We exploreof much of the north Essex and parts of Suffolk countryside taking in stretches of the Halstead marathon and Colchester half marathon routes. Whilst I still had a mini cough on the run and the ride, it is now well and truly gone- think I'll go for a short easy run today so I can blog about it
minks, perhaps u should take that rest to regain some spring in your step. I love my foam roller- I find I don't need to use it nearly as often as I did when I bought it, which is good- was v painful to start with...
Hi everyone,
Been hot on the training so far, and loving it. Last night had a track session down in Braintree's finest leisure Centre. Its our clubs Monday slot so every weeks a different challenge. Plus our "elite" ones are out in force so its such a push, its great.
Last night- 200 hard 200 recovery (best of 35s worst of 38/9) for 4 K/M
then 800m consisting of 30 strides and 30 normal.
Think im going to be a permanent resident there on Mondays now
.
On the horizon is booking high Ongar 10K, For another crack at a P.B
How's everyones training going??
Angela- Juneathon sounds a brilliant fitness challenge! Looks like your fitness is greatly improving all the time which is great
Minks- i swear by my roller. its brilliant/painful when your spot on the muscle, google/youtube some videos for them. i got the standard one but you can easily blow £40 on a trigger point one
Morning everyone,
So went out for a little recovery/super slow run last night with a friend. Got to 2 miles and felt like i was going to give up
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Anyways managed to soldier through the whole 3 MILES!! but felt absolutely awful after. Got home and was breathing heavy, sweating like mad (o.k it was lovely weather last night) and just generally shattered
.
Gave it some thoughts and nothing came to mind apart from mondays particular session! Do you think i was still recovering from that? i also didnt eat much in the run up to it, (hey its only 3 miles after all
)
Got 5 mile road race tonight as part of the clubs first wednesday of the month thing! Hopefully i should be o.k for that
Hope everyones doing o.k
ooo when is high ongar 10k?
for ur run last night sounds like ur probably trying to fight an infection- thats how i felt on the easy 4 mile run the day before my lurgie struck- gave up the running on that after 3 miles...
Hi angela, ongar 10k is on 7th July
.
i feel fine now, getting ready for training Tonight
Hey everyone, its all gone quiet on here!
anyways done the 5 mile road race last night in 34:33 which is a cracking result for me as its now my 5m P.B.
The course is particularly tough and is said to add 2 mins on so I'm feeling very confident for a 5miler now.
had a double booking for ongar 10k so won't be taking part in that one now
. The wife's got race for life so I'm watching her that morning. its a shame but I'd never be forgiven if I didn't watch her first 5k.
managed a very slow 3 miles tonight with a friend and felt good all the way so I'm putting other days episode on lack of food before hand
.
Hello people, Long time no speak... how is everybody's training going?
I had to give up on the idea of an Autumn marathon as my sister is now engaged and trying to do a wedding in 5 months... eeek! So I;ve been focusing on shorter distances.
So far managed to get my 5kpb down to 22:33 @ chelmsford parkrun, and I did 49.43 at the Felsted 10k a couple of weeks ago too.
Now I have my sights on the Ipswich Half Marathon in September- hoping I can go under 1:50, but that really is a stretch goal!
What about everyone else?