Paris marathon 2013 here we go! A.W's Sub 3 attempt!

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  • Am I missing something? All Steves posts have gone?

    Good weeks running AndyV. I dont envy anyone putting in a session like that on a treadmill!! At least you had the cricket to distract you!

    Good 14 this morning KR. Like you I'm not too sure how my speed work will go this week!? Meant to be doing 400's, not sure I'll get great speed if its still like it is today!! This week looks good training wise if I can get out and do all the sessions, will post up the week ahead in a bit.

    But first........

  • Today's run!

    As my 10k was off, we substituted with 2 hour LSR.

    I decided to run the entire run without checking my watch for distance, pace and time for the whole run and just run on feel. Wanted the whole run to be easy and conversational.

    I had an idea of my route and thought it would take about 2.10 for about 16 or 17 miles, but I had a bit of an issue with my directional sense however and ended up over running by about 30 minutes! (sorry Steve)

    It actually was ok under foot, wore my trail shoes and had plenty of traction for the most part, but wasn't really pushing the pace at all. The nice thing was that there wasn't too many people about due to the conditions, so didn't really have much dodging to do!

    Finished in a touch over 2.40 for just over 20 miles at an average pace of 8.03 minute miles. Didn't feel as comfortable as last weeks long run, but today was not fueled by gels and I just took on water.

  • Week six looks like this!


    Mon: Jan 21st: Rest or 5M easy

    Jan 22: 20 x 400m in 80-85 starting every 2 minutes 7M in total

    Jan 23: 10M steady in 7:30-8:00

    Jan 24: 8M build up run - starting at 7:30s and moving down to 6:15s

    Jan 25: 5M jog or rest

    Jan 26: Training day: 8M in total

    Jan 27: 18M relaxed in 7:30-8:00

    week total: 56M

  • I went longer than planned today so I can't tell you off AW. Annoying re lost money and oyster card but my own fault. I wore inov8 and grip ok apart from on a few descents but with either feet expanding or shoes shrinking got a few blisters on top of feet second half. Are my posts back?

  • What a bummer Steve losing your wrist etc. Plus side was you got a good run in! Do you tend to run long then get the train back?

    I use the Salomon speedcross DS2, and they are great for both mud & snow. I haven't got any spikes but I tend to have a mixture of fields, towpaths and village roads on my routes. I think if I only stuck to the fields spikes would be ideal. Good total for the week for you given the weather.

    Good to get a 20 miler in AW and I think with the conditions under foot a good time on feet leg strength run. I certainly felt it in my glutes after only 14 miles. This weeks training looks tasty especially the 20 x 400m reps. Is there a back up plan for that one if the conditions are dodgy?
  • They are now Steve! Don't know how but your posts had been listed to be ignored!! I didn't do it so not quite sure what happened!?



    Big error on my part with my route today, but it was easy paced so the extra few miles shouldn't be too hard on me!!
  • Sorry to hear you lost your stuff today Steve.  Complete pain in the butt.

    I've been wearing my XC spikes this w/e and they've been great.  parkrun yesterday morning was quickest for a while (but nothing to get excited about).  I then did 9 miles along the river in the afternoon and 12.5 this afternoon.  I made the mistake of wearing running tights, a long sleeve vest and a waterproof jacket this afternoon and the combination, together with the snow, made it hard work. Had originally planned to do a bit more but decided that approx 25 miles on the spikes this w/e was probably enough and have done 60 for the week as a whole.

    This week's schedule looks good but not sure I'm capable of the 20x 400's at that pace at the moment and definitely can't do the 8miles finishing at 6.15 pace!

  • Good running Golfer - agree don't want to run too far in spikes - they are not really built for long runs. NB the 6:15 pace is only for the last mile or so - not sure I could do that session at the moment

    KR - the plan was to run 5-6 miles on mostly road to a good area and then do an off road loop and didn't really want to repeat the road part back but had no choice and at least it wasn't really road on the way back wit the snow.

  • A.W wrote (see)
    Post for Ruth,

    This is my food diary from today before and after my long run!

    7am - large bowl branflakes (65g) with sultanas and skimmed milk. Coffee with skimmed milk.

    9.15am - 20 mile run - 2 GU gels and 400ml of water during.

    12.30pm - 300ml skimmed milk with Benko (chocolate milk powder).

    1pm - Cup of tea with skimmed milk.

    1.30pm - Beans on toast with ketchup. (1 tin beans and 3 slices of sour dough bread)

    3pm - Glass of water.

    4.30pm - large chocolate cookie, handful nuts and dried fruit and an orange. Cup of tea with skimmed milk.

    7pm - 2 slices parma pizza, chicken breast sandwich (griddled chicken and griddled sour dough bread), curly kale and baked beans. Ketchup in sandwich. Glass of water.

    8pm - Cup of tea with skimmed milk.

    8.30pm - Homemade vanilla gelato (skimmed milk, vanilla extract, agave)

    Morning

    I was starting to feel we where never going to get the snow but that feeling has now well and truely gone. I stay in the Scottish Borders and I reckon this is the start of it for us! I have not been running for the past 3 months for various reasons and just started back 5 days ago so could be a very interesting run this lunch. The first six weeks back are always hard but the snow just makes it that bit harder again!

    I think your 300ml of milk and Benko (my house is call Benko!) followed up by bean on toast is great recovery, lots of protein and lots of carbs- excellant. Would have liked to have seen lots more veg/salad in meals. Lots of veg mean more antioxidants, more dietary nitrates (what beet juice has got famous for!) & more fibre. Lots of veg is always a win win situation for runners and non runners alike!

    How many gels at at what stages are you planning on having these in Paris?

    Doing great!

  • Hi Ruth,

    I bet that's lovely up there, what a great place to go running! Except when you have a foot or two of snow I guess!!!

    Lots more veg I can do, I guess I can be a bit lazy and just go for the carbs at meals!!

    At Paris I was planning on taking a gel at 6, 11, 16 and 21 miles. That will be a little under every 35 minutes. Does this sound good to you? Up until Paris I will run all but 1 of my remaining long runs without gel, and in that 1 long run that I do I will just make sure the gels still agree with me before race day. I'm hoping that way I will get the best kick I can from the gel.

  • Back from my easy run today, feel really good energy wise. Not at all drained after yesterdays 20.

    I do however have a bit of tightness on the back of my knees around the tendons, and a little bit of soreness below my ankle bone (that went away after half a mile). I'm the aches and pains are because of the slipping and sliding every now and again on the snow and ice yesterday, or maybe 20 miles in my trail shoes - the most I'd done previously in them was about 6 or 8 miles in one go. I will foam roller and stretch again later and see how it is, I don't think its a problem.

    I'm hoping I will be able to find a suitable stretch of road or pavement that is clear for my 400's tomorrow, but will just have to play it by ear and see when I'm out. I'm trying to get my head round 20 reps!!! I'm not sure I've ever done that many!

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Hi Alex,

    I was just saying on Ady's thread - I can't believe how little you lot eat, or should I say how much I eat in comparison. Given that Ruth seems happy I'm wondering if I'm eating too much. 

    Even Mrs Malcs is now concerned about her diet and she thought she ate like a sparrowimage

    How come you're not piling on the pasta every day? You must be burning 1000's of cals - does this not all have to be replaced? Possible a question for Ruth.

    Anyway, I have been mainly lurking on Ady's thread because reading your mileage and speed just makes me sick image. Sounds like you're progressing amazingly well so congratulations on training so far. I'll be at the Spitfire in March so hope to say hello then. Have a great time with the others on the weekend!

     

  • Hi Malcs,



    That's been mentioned a couple of times about the volume of food. My body seems fairly comfortable with the amount its getting and my weight has been at a stable 67-68 kg for about 3-4 months now since I dropped from around 78-79kg since about April 2012 (was heavier than normal after long injury issue), I have been increasing my intake a little as the running volume increases and things seem quite steady.



    I love to eat, and I could happily eat a lot more at most meals, but try and keep it in check so I keep my body fat low and weight the same.
  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Ah apologies I should have read back - I can't keep up with you all, you're such prolific posters!

    Well good to know that you're not starving yourself but surely there must be a big calorie deficit? You must average well over 3000 cals burned on training days and much more on LSR days. Maybe I'm missing something but your food diary entries I've seen appear to be way below those levels. Are you just conveniently forgetting to note down the large bar of Dairy Milk?image

    Of course I may have it completely wrong and I'm the one eating over 3000 cals a day image

  • Your gel plan looks ok but Ruth's the expert. I tend to take one at the start to save me carrying it and then 12, 17 and 20 plus some Lucozade.

    I did around 5 today in the snow - snow was deeper today and slower on grass but ok on paths where more compact. was able to go out hour later this week and more light because of snow. The back of knee discomfort is probably the pull of the snow and should ease.

    re the 400s - use the first five or so as warm up and they should be at the slow end of the range or even slower.  if the ground isn't 100% stable and is slowing you, totally ignore the times and focus on effort but running relaxced and as naturally as you can.

  • No worries Malcs,

    Certainly don't starve myself, could never do that I love my food too much!!!! Your probably right on the average daily calorie output, although I'm not sure how much difference it make if your an efficient runner or not? Not that I'm saying I am efficient, but I'm sure if you are your energy usage will be less.

  • Well, that was certainly the hardest run to date on this marathon campaign!

    Scheduled run was 20 x 400M reps in 1.20-1.25 starting every 2 mins. 7 miles.

    Actual run was 20 x 400M (splits below). Total of 8 miles.

    Thanks for the tips Steve, It was pretty lethal in parts on the pavements! I managed to find a stretch of pathway along the canal by London Zoo that was perfectly clear and about 600 meters long and straight, so perfect! Although I knew it was going to be a mental challenge knowing I was going to have to complete 10 out and back sprints!

    And a challenge it was! The hardest part was the first 6 or so, all that kept going through my head was "I've got 20 of these to do, this is bloody hard work!". Once I got to 10, although I was getting more tired, I knew I had less to do that I had already done which helped me mentally rattle through the rest!

    It was tough by the end, I'm not sure I would have got another 2 done before my pace dropping like a stone!

    Here are my splits!

    1.20, 1.22, 1.19, 1.18, 1.20, 1.20, 1.19, 1.21, 1.18, 1.18, 1.19, 1.19, 1.19, 1.20, 1.19, 1.21, 1.21, 1.21, 1.19, 1.22

    Very happy with how the run went and the consistency of my reps, and although tired at the end of the session, I don't feel completely knackered and my legs feel fine.

    I feel loads stronger during a session like this than a couple of months ago.

    One question though Steve, I'm not going to have to do more than 20 x 400's over the next couple of months am I?!!!!image

  • All power to you AW. Sounds like a beast of a session there. Great consistency on the reps.

    No outdoor running for me. More snow falling over West Berkshire tonight image

    A question to the forum: Is it worth me getting some trail shoes?  Are they generally any good on snow covered roads/pavements?

  • well done on the session AW - great running - good speed which you held to the end.

    In retrospect, 20 was probably too many in january as you can't do more later in the schedule. But you can do them faster by having longer recoveries. I certainly couldn't have got anywhere near that despite being fairly sure I am comfortably in sub-3 shape. Our Track was out of use. so we did eight hills of under 200m on path and then six flatter efforts along trail path - I thought was nearer 800m but was closer to 600m. 

    Andy V - yes trail shoes or inov8s are better in these conditions. I wore my cross-country spikes to track with the metal spikes removed - while there were lots of snow on Blackheath and where we did session, there was none through Lewisham where I ran where normal trainers would have been fine.

  • Great session AW and very consistent rep times. Mentally tough and like you say & the countdown is daunting and a bit like doing a 20 miler in a way, knowing you have all the other ones ahead.

    I like wearing my Salomon Speedcross shoes in the snow, although when the snow compacts on the pavvements & freezes, there's not much that can keep you steady. I know a few people use yak trax on their shoes (they are clip on spikes to the soles).

    Although tonight I went out in my ASICS excel 33's as I had found a 1 mile loop of clear, quiet suburban road tonight for my 1 mile reps. Only had to jump on the kerb/pavements a few times to dodge a couple of cars. Really pleased with the paces of 6.03, 5.54, 5.49, 5.53 & 5.48. A week of trudging through snow & slipping on ice made the clear road feel great!

  • Morning AW!

    Sounds like a hard session! Mine yesterday was a lot easier 20 x 200m and they were fine ... but just knowing there were 20 of them was daunting to begin with! How do you keep count? My brain shuts down when I run ....

     

  • Hi RRR!!!

    Was a very hard session, but really love the feeling of satisfaction when you finish! I know what you mean about the thought of 20 reps being daunting, I just try and break it down into little chunks, concentrate on 1-5 first, then get myself to 10, then start counting down in reverse. Helps keep it manageable for me!

  • Food diary time - Yesterdays!

    7am - Special K (large bowl) with skimmed milk and small roll with strawberry jam. 2 cups of coffee with skimmed milk.

    10am - Training 20 x 400M reps, 8 miles total

    12.15pm - Handful mixed nuts, 1 apple.

    2.30pm - Salmon steak wrapped in bacon, oriental veg and rice noodles and a bread roll. Cup of tea, water.

    4.30pm - Bread roll with strawberry jam, handful of sultanas. Water.

    7.30pm - Homemade butternut squash, carrot, lentil and cannellini bean stew. 2 slices of homemade wholemeal bread and tomato, mango, sultanas and greens salad with balsamic dressing. Water.

    8.30pm - Sugar free strawberry jelly. Water.

    9.30pm - Mars fun size.

  • AndyV - no outdoor running still, that would be hell for me. I can't stand treadmills, I guess I would learn to appreciate them though in that situation!!!

    Steve - that's good to know I'm not going to have to do more than 20 x 400's, not sure I could cope! I feel like I'm in really good shape, and even when I start to tire I can keep my effort level up and maintain my splits a bit better than a few months ago. You got a good hill session done, will hills be entering my schedule at any point?

    KR - your right, in a lot of ways like a 20 miler and I find myself breaking it down in to sections in the same way to make it more manageable for my head. I tried those Asics Excel 33's when I went for the store day, I quite liked them, they felt light and quick, but in the end went for the Asics DS Racer 9 and I've also bought a pair of the Asics Skyspeed 3. Not sure which I will wear for Paris yet, I'm leaning towards the Skyspeed as they have a bit more cushioning. Think the DS Racers might be a bit too light for me for a marathon.

    Good paces on your mile reps too!

  • So today's run was 10 miles slow in 7.30-8 minute miles.

    Actual run was 10 miles at 7.46 minute miles.

    Felt pretty good again today, not affected too much after the speed work yesterday, I feel like I'm recovering fairly well and fairly quickly after the hard sessions.

    I am starting to get a few niggles hear and there, but nothing overly alarming at this stage. The tightness behind the knee and beside the ankle have gone, but I feel a bit of soreness on top of my right foot. I think my shin has become quite tight and is pulling on the tendon that runs down to the big toe. When I have my shoes on and pull my toes up I get a bit of pain on the mid foot where the laces are, without shoes on there is no problem. Funnily enough when running its not an issue either, but when walking its a bit more sore.

    Will give it some ice and hot treatment tonight, stretch the shin out and foam roller to loosen things up and see where we are tomorrow.

    Like I say, It was fine to run on, so guess it cant be too much to worry about!

  • Today's food diary.

    7am - Bran flakes with handful of sultanas and skimmed milk. 2 cups of coffee with skimmed milk.

    10.15am - Cliff chocolate chip energy bar.

    10.30am - Training 10 miles.

    12.30pm - 2 slices homemade wholemeal bread with leftover bean stew. Apple. Cup of tea, water.

    3pm - Weights workout.

    4.30pm - 1 slice malt loaf, Special k with skimmed milk. Water, cup of tea.

    5.30pm - 1 slice chocolate Oreo cake.

    7.30pm - 3 slices toast with baked beans, scrambled egg whites (leftover from ice cream) with tomato ketchup and small bit of leftover lasagne. 2 glasses water.

    8.15pm - Sugar free strawberry jelly. Water.

  • good run.aw - the snow puts a strain on the body and hopefully it's just a few niggles that will disappear.

     Yes, there will be some hills in the schedule and I suggest you actually put some hils into the two fartlek sessions

    i did 13 today with a 7:50 average though discounting first very slow 3 was closer to 7:30 which was ok as quite a bit of ice and slush

    Great miles KR shows you are in very sharp form.

  • A.W wrote (see)

    Hi Ruth,

    I bet that's lovely up there, what a great place to go running! Except when you have a foot or two of snow I guess!!!

    Lots more veg I can do, I guess I can be a bit lazy and just go for the carbsat meals!!

    At Paris I was planning on taking a gel at 6, 11, 16 and 21 miles. That will be a little under every 35 minutes. Does this sound good to you? Up until Paris I will run all but 1 of my remaining long runs without gel, and in that 1 long run that I do I will just make sure the gels still agree with me before race day. I'm hoping that way I will get the best kick I can from the gel.

    That plan sounds  good and water when you feel you need. As Steve mentioned you can have one before you start but this is up to you. I would still have the 4 as think a risk to drop to 3 for this Marathon as pushing for a PB and have changed a lot of other things so if this has worked for you before, don't change now. A lot of faster marathon runners such as Steve wait much later before starting on the gels/fuel (as they are efficient runners) but you will find as many fast runners also start early with the gels and continue, equally you will find some runners only have a couple for the whole race and the elite/world class even less! We are all different and it is having a plan that you practice that is key. I think the rest of the plan above is all good. Are you using caffeine gels?

     

  • A.W wrote (see)

    Food diary time - Yesterdays!

    7am - Special K (large bowl) with skimmed milk and small roll with strawberry jam. 2 cups of coffee with skimmed milk.

    10am - Training 20 x 400M reps, 8 miles total

    12.15pm - Handful mixed nuts, 1 apple.

    2.30pm - Salmon steak wrapped in bacon, oriental veg and rice noodles and a bread roll. Cup of tea, water.

    4.30pm - Bread roll with strawberry jam, handful of sultanas. Water.

    7.30pm - Homemade butternut squash, carrot, lentil and cannellini bean stew. 2 slices of homemade wholemeal bread and tomato, mango, sultanas and greens salad with balsamic dressing. Water.

    8.30pm - Sugar free strawberry jelly. Water.

    9.30pm - Mars fun size.

    There has been talk of your calorie intake and I think you can get away with eating what you are doing (not everyone will) but it is a fine line/can be risky so you have to be very on top of recovery. An example of poor recovery is demonstrated above! 20x 400m (a killer of a session) yet you only had handful of nuts and an apple to recover. I would have  added your afternoon snack to this (jam roll as well as nuts and apple). A recovery snack should have 10-20g of protein and at least 40-60g of carbs after very hard/prolonged sessions. We can talk through recovery this weekend face to face and I can post up summary of our chat.

    Yesterdays food diary was better although some salad at dinner would have been good!

    Really looking forward to meeting you all on Saturday.

  • RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)
    . Are you using caffeine gels?

    Can you have 4 caffeine gels or would that be too much caffeine?

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