Paris marathon 2013 here we go! A.W's Sub 3 attempt!

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  • Great run Choisty - you are looking good for London!

    Great end to the week AW and a solid 22 miler under the belt to finish it off.

    All miles in the bank Steve and I guess the muddy conditions add a bit of strength?

    Wrexham half today in 1.26.34. I was close to PB time and went through 10 miles in 65.15, but wind and fatigue/lactate acid knocked a PB on the head this time. Was looking for around 1.26 - 1.27 so relatively pleased with the outcome.

     

  • KR - I was also in Wrexham yesterday and I am reasonably happy with my race (1:21). As you said, it was a bit a windy and I struggle a bit between 10 & 12M. I was on my own and that part of the course was quite exposed. Nevertheless, it was a good training session. I was also able to try other things (shoes, shorts,gels,...) and that went well. I even took 2 gels to practice taking gels while running (I wouldn't take more than one for a half marathon).
  • AW

    Great that gels are sorted and agree stick to what you feel "safe" with.

    A.W wrote (see)

    Carb Loading!

    So here is my days carb loading! Feeling quite full! 7.30am - Mini Weetabix with chocolate bits (60g) with 200ml skimmed milk. Glass of apple juice, mug of coffee with skimmed milk. Peach. 11am - Natural Valley granola bar. Pint of orange juice mixed with water. 1.30pm - 1 large wholemeal roll with prawns (145g) and extra light mayo. 1 large wholemeal roll with peanut butter and strawberry jam.  3.30pm - 2 slices of Malt Loaf. Pint of orange squash. 6.30pm - Half a 12' anchovy and olive pizza. Spaghetti with meatballs and tomato sauce. 2 glasses of slimline tonic water. (we ate out in Wokingham) 9.30pm - Half a tin of low fat rice pudding. Cup of decaf coffee. (eating this now!)

    Actual carb loading plan:

    Breakfast:  60g of   cereal with 200-250ml of skimmed milk (60 grams of carbs) & 200ml glass   of fruit juice (18g) with large banana (25-30g). Hot drink as usual.   Breakfast total: 105g

     

    Mid-morning: 700ml   of high juice/cordial or fruit juice between breakfast & lunch (60-70g)   & Cereal bar (25g): total 90-95g

     

    Lunch: Sandwiches (4 slices of thick bread/two large   rolls= 60g) with one meat/fish filled sandwich and one banana sandwich (25g).   120g pot of yoghurt (low fat 16g)

    Total:100g

     

     

    Mid-afternoon: Between lunch and dinner a further 1 litre   of high juice or fruit juice (100g) & 5 jaffa cakes (40g) or or two   slices of pre-sliced malt loaf (40g). Total: 140g

     

    Evening meal: 100g   dried weight of rice or   pasta with tomato based sauce & 200g low fat yoghurt or rice pudding.   Total: 100g  Or if you wished to have your usual home made pizza a mini pizza   base (~weighting 70g would provide 40g of carbs so if top with lots of  lots of tomato sauce etc will be around 50g   carb mark for this mini pizza). So you could either double the size to allow   100g of carbs form pizza or add 300ml fruit juice (27g) and a low fat fruit   yoghurt 16g if wish smaller portion of pizza. The night before Paris if you   have a pizza out you will easily have 100g of carbs in this and you should   choose to reduce cheese etc

     

    Supper: 40g bowl of cereal (40g) & 2 slices of   thick toast with jam or honey (50g): Total 90g

    Overall estimated   total: 630grams of carbohydrates.

  • AW

    Comments from carb loading now that you are back and 100% fit again:

    • Your choice of mid- morning snack: pint of OJ mixed with water will be fewer carbs than 700ml of straight OJ or cordial (mixed as per instructions on bottle) 
    • Lunch – again fewer carbs than plan – no yogurt & jam over banana will be less carbs than a full banana.
    • Mid-afternoon – 500ml short of carb drink means fewer carbs
    • Supper – will have about half carbs than suggested meal plan

    HOWEVER

    I feel you will be using sufficient gels in race and if want to eat slightly less carbs before Paris then suggest you "load" with slightly less carbs for 2 whole days before marathon but two nights prior to that add a medium bowl of cereal before bed. For example Friday & Saturday carb load with slightly less carbs  but on Wednesday & Thursday eat a little extra at supper?

    At the end of the day you are the one that needs to be comfortable with the plan so I am happy if you only eat 2 days before (and slightly less carbs than the plan) as this is more carbs than normal for you and you will be on a proper planned taper. What are your thoughts?

  • Hi Ruth,

    Thanks for the pointers above.

    To be honest I felt stuffed after lunch as my rolls were really big, so really didn't feel like anything else.

    I cut down the supper because I thought I'd probably eaten more than I should have for my Evening meal - half a pizza and a big bowl of spaghetti and meatballs, so thought that would make up for it?

    Point taken about the juice, will try and up this next time, more in the afternoon and just pure juice in the morning.

    Will try and make it better next time, its a pity I was ill the day after as I really have no idea how I would have felt running after the days carb load. I will trial it again in two weeks before my 20 mile race.

    Does that sound ok?

  • Steve, just seen that results...damn V50's they're trouble I tell you

    AW stick to the nutrition plan where you can it helped me no end, I still try to stick to the same rules, although lats nights curry and beer probably wasn't on the orginal sheet!

  • Good running on the 22 miler AW, that's an impressive pace so soon after being ill.

    Question for Steve/Ruth, if you're using gels with caffeine during the marathon is it worth laying off tea in the days leading up to the race to get an extra boost from the caffeine? I've been using the High5 IsoGels without any problems.

    I managed to knock a few seconds off my parkrun pb on Saturday, down to 18.36 now and hoping that translates into a half marathon pb in Llanelli in a couple of weeks

     

  • AW - actually sounds like your time off has done you the world of good - your 800s last week were amazingly strong and a really good long run from this weekend - your confidence must be sky high

    What's this week's programme got in store?

     

  • Tim, I stopped Caffine on Ruth's advice last year for a week, until the morning of the Marathon then had a couple of coffees before the start and a caffinated gel at 23, all of which seemed to work well.

  • well done on the half KR and DD.

    Tim - personally I couldn't cut down on my tea but I never touch coffee but it is likely that depleting yourself from caffeine will give you more of a boost when you go back but Ruth better confirm that. I find I still get a boost from the caffeine even if I have had a cup of tea in the morning.

  • Hi Denis, great time for you at Wrexham. I think it's a good course, but a bit exposed in parts - not unique to there but all country courses! Managed to tuck in behind a few runners where I could but yes between 10 & 12 was a bit windy. Saying that though it must have been behind on other parts! Good to see they had more marshals on the course this year to thwart the sign movers that happened last year.

  • Ok, think week 10 is this - 


    Mon Feb 18th: rest or 5M easy

    Feb 19th: 4 x 2000 in 7 to 7:30 starting every 9 mins (9M in total)

    Feb 20: 10M easy in 8 min miles

    Feb 21st: 7M with 3M section in sub 6:30s

    Feb 22nd: 5M easy or rest

    Feb 23rd: Hills - 6M total

    Feb 24th: 20M slow in 8s but a 5 mile section in 6:40s

    week total: 57M

  • Steve..... I swapped today's and Thursdays sessions around, I hope that's ok? Reason being my calves are really tired and a bit sore today, and I thought 2k intervals might be a bit much the way I felt.

    So, I did a 3 mile section at sub 6.30m/m during a total of 8 miles. I had a warm up and then ran 2 laps of Finsbury park which is about 1.5 miles a lap. The first lap came out at 6.22m/m and the second lap was 6.17m/m. Finsbury park is a bit on the undulating side, but it did feel really hard work today. My legs were tired and the run was laboured, I had to work pretty hard to hold the paces I ran.

    Still, I got it done and hopefully have more energy to put in a decent reps session on Thursday!

  • Hi AW!

    Glad you're feeling better - sorry to hear you missed your half! Hope the Spitfire 20 goes really well and we all missed you this weekend at Dorney Lakes so will be good to all have a catch up at Bootcamp 3 in a couple of weeks! image

  • yes was wise to switch it around AW - looks a good session.

  • Hello RRR! Yes feeling a lot better now! It would have been good to meet with everyone at Dorney, but the need for a decent long run won as I'd not done one for a couple of weeks due to races.

    These training days come around so quickly, can't believe its time to go up to Birmingham again already!!!

  • Felt a lot better today Steve, I think swapping the sessions round was a good call, and legs felt good.

    I probably over cooked today's run. Not intentionally, in fact I didn't check my pace at all during the run, I just ran at a pace which felt comfortable and an easy pace. In hindsight I should have kept track of my pace and reigned it in, but I do feel nice and fresh still and not tired in the slightest.

    11 miles completed in 7.21 m/m average pace. No problems or issues at all, it felt good start to finish. 

    I also think that the problem with the tendinitis on the foot is almost behind me, I have ran for the last week with no discomfort or pain while running, and after I finish I just have some very mild tenderness which is usually gone within a few hours. I'm still taping my foot and icing religiously every few hours and after running just to make sure!

    Steve I just have one quick question regarding the scheduled 2k reps which I'm doing tomorrow. Last time they were scheduled it was for 5 x 2k, and this time its just 4 x 2k? Was just wondering why the number of reps decreased? Same question for next weeks reps too?

  • AW That's a fast run but good to hear foot is almost there.

    while the speed session volumes have reduced, it's still 8km in total, which I think is enough at this time of year when the mileage has increased and this will very slightly reduce the strain on the body and hopefully the chance of injury or getting run down for sessions over the rest of the week. It will also allow you to do them very slightly quicker or at the same speed but more relaxed!

     

  • Thanks for the explanation Steve. I understand now, and I think my body is actually glad the reps have reduced a little!!!

    Today's run was a good one, 2k reps are not my favorite, but I can appreciate how useful they are for marathon training. It's very cold out there today and it took me a little while to warm up, the wind was bitter and always seemed to be blowing in to my face!

    Total run was 10 miles in 67.19 (I think it was actually nearer 9.5 miles, see explanation below!). the 2k reps came out at 7.36 (I think this one was slightly long), 7.10, 7.07 and 7.08. 

    I think my GPS was playing up a bit today, the first rep felt long and I think it was by about 10 or 15 seconds, so it was still slower than the other 3. Then for the last two it was measuring short so I was running over distance by about 0.30M.

    Another hard session done and on to my hills session planned for Saturday. Steve, have you any suggestions for structure of the session? distance of rep, effort or pace etc?

  • Tim

    Athletes always report they feel more of a "hit" from caffeine if they reduce this the week before or for at least 3 days before so although evidence does not suggest you need to do this, most athletes on the ground will say it helps. However depends on how much you "need" your caffeine in the week approaching. Even if decide not to reduce it the caffeine will have an effect (if it is something that works for you) but may have a bigger "feeling" of an effect if reduce/cut this down before.  

    Thanks choisty for your input, much appreciated. Here is something else you can help me with!

    Over the coming few weeks the focus will be on Paris and the food challenges that may bring. The first challenge is the restaurant choice for the Friday & Saturday night. If you were going on a leisurely holiday I would suggest different a restaurant each night and of course to try the local food BUT you are here to do a marathon! So I am looking to seek everyone’s honest opinion on restaurant type. My thoughts are Italian as Parisian meals are not typically carb heavy, more meat based. Last year I picked out some Italian places to eat and then sent links to you all so that you could at least know what was available and if this would be suitable for everyone, so the plan was to do something similar. I am also thinking of RRR who does not eat gluten or wheat (we had a similar issue last year but there was other choices at the Italian we ended up choosing) so I would suggest we look for something that may be Italian but some non- pasta options?  Those that ate in the places I suggested last year could perhaps comment (choisty, Steve, Sam etc ) on what they think too?

     

     

     

  • I'll eat anywhere and anything Ruth!!! Italian is my favorite food so that sounds good to me!

  • A.W wrote (see)

    Hi Ruth,

    Thanks for the pointers above. To be honest I felt stuffed after lunch as my rolls were really big, so really didn't feel like anything else. I cut down the supper because I thought I'd probably eaten more than I should have for my Evening meal - half a pizza and a big bowl of spaghetti and meatballs, so thought that would make up for it? Point taken about the juice, will try and up this next time, more in the afternoon and just pure juice in the morning. Will try and make it better next time, its a pity I was ill the day after as I really have no idea how I would have felt running after the days carbload. I will trial it again in two weeks before my 20 mile race. Does that sound ok?

    What about reducing lunch to one roll, not two, and have a larger meal at night and no supper (as likely to happen in Paris anyway - so agree fair point about evening meal but try and stick to the rest of the plan?).

    Gels: if want to have a caffeine gel as your last gel in Paris you could and the rest as non-caffeine gels. I think if you are comfortable with the GO gels then you should not have a problem with caffeine for the last 1-2 gels but this is your race and the best option is the one you feel better with.

  • Hi Ruth,

    I have a problem (or maybe not) after my long run. For example, I did 15M today  and I drank a recovery drink after but then, about 45 minutes later,I didn't really feel like having lunch. I had a tuna baked potatoe but I had to force myself to finish.

    Is the meal after the long run (or medium long run) critical or could I just have a snack and a bigger meal in the evening?

  • I wouldn't use the restaurant that we had for the last supper as they weren't happy to let us in early and the service was poor especially for nervous runners, although the food was good.  But otherwise I thought the choices were excellent and would use a similar formula, let's face it we all hit target!

  • Thanks Ruth,



    I'm a bit like you Steve I don't drink coffee but couldn't do without a brew first thing in the morning. Think I'll cut out tea during in the day in the days leading up to the marathon.



    Off to Wembley on Sunday so swapped my long run to today, 21 miles in 2.43

    Did a session off Marathon Talk which was 1 mile at MP, 2 miles easy x 7 and felt pretty good
  • Denis Duret wrote (see)

    Hi Ruth,

    I have a problem (or maybe not) after my long run. For example, I did 15M today  and I drank a recovery drink after but then, about 45 minutes later,I didn't really feel like having lunch. I had a tuna baked potatoe but I had to force myself to finish. Is the meal after the long run (or medium long run) critical or could I just have a snack and a bigger meal in the evening?

    What recovery drink did you have?If it had 10-20g of protein and 40g plus of carbs I would have waited another 45miutes so say 90-120minutes post run before next snack as this amount of protein and carbs would have been enough for the following two hours and would have allowed you to enjoy your tattie a little more! OR if you know you are going to have a meal within 45minutes only have half recovery drink.

    Does this make sense?  

  • Choisty wrote (see)

    I wouldn't use the restaurant that we had for the last supper as they weren't happy to let us in early and the service was poor especially for nervous runners, although the food was good.  But otherwise I thought the choices were excellent and would use a similar formula, let's face it we all hit target!

    Thanks for this Choisty. This year, once I have a short list of eating places and a vote on which ones look best, I will make sure we get a time we all want to eat at and phone and make sure!  Service, unless someone on forum can recommend somewhere they have been already, will have to be on luck!

    Your half marathon time was good!

  • Don't remember too many problems about restaurant other than it was some distance away from hotel and some felt might be best to get restaurants closer to hotel so less time travelling and people can get back easier after meal.

    Great 2km reps apart from first one, which I'm sure was long - I got quicker when i did same session Tuesday but wasn't difficult as very slow to start with and really struggled.

    For hills - presuming you can find longish hill of at least 400m - not too steep so the descent doesn't put too much strain on knee -

    suggest four shorter efforts of 30 seconds  - controlled but gradually quicker each rep starting at HM pace.

    then 8-10 x long hill roughly 5k/10k pace - relaxed jog back - ideally start something like every 4 minutes if rep takes 1:30-1:50 or 4:30 if over two minutes so you have a similar gap between each rep.

    then 3 x more dynamic 20 second efforts - ideally on steepest part of hill with walk jog back

    and if appropriate a 5-8 minute continuous circuit with at least six ups, where the hill isn't too steep and you relax at a controlled quickish pace on descent and put the greater effort into the ups

     

     

  • Ruth,

    I am using Torq recovery which has 22g of protein and 61g of carbohydrate per serving. So it would make sense to have my lunch a bit later (or have half recovery drink). Thanks for your help.
  • Good luck for Wembley on Sunday Tim! Which side of the fence are you on?

    Rest day and going for my BUPA Fitness Assessment I have as part of the Asics Target 26.2 prize! Should be an interesting day, will post results later!

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