Paris marathon 2013 here we go! A.W's Sub 3 attempt!

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  • That's another good session AW - they give a rough connection to marathon form but it does depend on basic speed to endurance ratio and know some fast twitch runners who can do 2:50s for 800s but couldn't run 3:30 in a marathon and some slow twitch runners who would be outside three for the 800s but would have a far better chance of a sub-3 marathon.

    I did 6 x 1000m tonight at vaguely similar overall pace but varied speeds within ie faster straights and slower bends, progessively faster per 200, 400 hard, 200 float, 400 hard etc.

    One Gear - yes sections can be at marathon pace but you don't need to as much as 10 miles straight away or hit marathon pace straight away. ie could do 15 mile run and first five and last five could be slower than normal ie 8 min miles and then middle 5 could be sub 7s

  • You must be over your bug DS2 after that 9 with 4 at HMP. Hope you have turned a corner with it. There's so much illness knocking about at the momet, I'm becoming paranoid about picking any up. There's a guy at work whose had a bad cold, co I've avoided him a lot!

    Hard session there AW and I think with the small recoveries it get tougher as the session progresses.

    Like the way you break up those 1000m reps Steve, so much easier done on a track.

    I ventured out and did 4 x 2000m reps around my local Park (I've just started week 1 this week) - perfect traffic free environment and wide paths. Managed to average between 6.02 & 6.10 for most. Was glad with that but felt the 14 XC miles in my legs from Sunday.

  • Good work on the 2000m reps KR! I found them tough mentally when I did them in week 1.



    Nice session Steve, I like the idea of varying speed during reps, I rarely get to a track though for reps so it would be difficult for me.



    I think I'm very much in the slow twitch camp!! I've never been blessed with any great speed and previously I've always had better performances over HM and marathon compared to 5ks and 10ks. But I guess if I focussed a bit more on training for those distances specifically I would see more improvement!?
  • Today's session was 10 miles at 7.30-8.00 min mile pace.

    Actual run today was 10 miles in 1.14.15, average pace of 7.26 a mile.

    Legs a little tired over the first couple of miles which were in the 8 min mile range. Felt really good from about the 3 mile point and really didn't feel like any effort to keep up the 7.30 mile pace. Felt pretty easy pace wise which surprised me a bit after yesterdays intervals, I expected the whole run to be a little hard work, not just the first couple of miles.

    A question for you Steve, or anyone else who might know. What energy drink or gel type product is available at feed stations at the Paris marathon? I'm thinking ahead to what I should trial in training, in previous marathons I've used about 4 SIS go gels which I take with me, but if there is something available on route that I can get on with I will use that. 

  • Hey Alex. Good 10 mile run today. It'd be nice to be able to keep that kind of pace for such distance. Hopefully by February and my half marathon, I'll be able to do so.

    How do you carry your gels during a marahton. Do you use a gel pack? I've also seen people stick them to their arms or just hold them with their water bottle? 

    Good luck with the rest of the week!

  • AW..just picked up your thread from an e-mail off runners world about the asics Target 26.2.Interesting reading and I will try and read your posts over the last month of training.Like you I,m searching for that elusive sub 3(current pb 3.05 London 2012.Do you publish your plan weekly as it may be of some help in my quest.Anyway best of luck and well done so far.....
  • Your trainings going really well Ady, I'm sure your going to be able achieve your goals. Just look after that knee!!! On the gels, I have a fuel belt with elastic loops you put your gels into - I've just been bought a new one for Christmas which I need to try out as the old ones falling to pieces!!!!

    Hi dawsey67, good luck with you sub 3 campaign! I publish the plan weekly, so every Sunday I post up the next weeks training.

  • Another good run today AW. I think i could have only gone that quick had I been on a bike! Did 14 slow but it felt quick.

    I think Ruth will be able to confirm about what Marathon has in terms of drinks and gels as she usually does the research for this.

  • Update for the food diary Ruth.

    I've made some adjustments to make sure I'm getting more water and no long periods without food.

    Tuesday's Food -

    6.30am - Special K (50g) with some dried fruit (30g) and Skimmed milk. Coffee with skimmed milk.

    8.30am - Graze Mango Lassi punnet.

    9.30am - Training - 800m reps - 8 miles total

    10.30am - Apple

    2pm - Bread (100g) and strawberry jam. Clementine. 2 pint water. 

    4.30pm - Fruit cake. 1 pint water.

    8pm - Homemade pasta (150g) with homemade tomato and butter bean sauce. 1 pint water.

    9pm - Haribo sweets (20g mini bags x 2)

     

  • Thanks for that aw,I,m on week 2 of training for London so will pick up on your week 3 from Monday.Got good base at mo been averaging 45 a week.Looking forward to following the threads as it's good reading with the posts from yourself,your coach and your nutritionist....
  • Good stuff dawsey67, keep us posted on your progress. Its always good to hear how everyone is getting on with their own training.

    Another run on the road to Paris done today!!

    I had 8 miles with middle 4 at MP scheduled today.

    Actual run was 9 miles in 66 minutes. First two easy in 16.14 - 8.07 a mile. Then 4 miles in 26.04 - 6.31 min miles average and the 3 miles easy in 23.40 - 7.53 a mile to finish.

    It was a little bit quicker than MP, but the effort felt good. I was pretty comfortable the whole run and I only had to work on the uphill sections during the quicker bit. Finished the MP section feeling good and could have carried on for a good few miles if I wanted. After a reasonably hard few days training I'm really happy with how today's run went and how good I still felt at the end of the run. It feels like my endurance is coming along nicely, a few months ago I would be pretty tired when finishing my harder runs and quite drained after a string of hardish runs like over the last week, but at the moment I still feel quite good energy wise.

    Sports massage booked for this afternoon to help keep thinks in order!!! 

  • A.W. - that's great news! You look really well placed right now. 4 miles at better than MP effort feeling comfortable at this stage is really encouraging.

    Great idea to have the massage. I need to think about doing that regularly as well. How often do you intend to do this? What would the coaches suggest?

  • Hi AW, I found the sports massages really helped me. In previous campaigns I didn't have any and think the build up of all that running and no release wasn't very good! I think it did help with the cramp issues I used to suffer too and freshen up your legs. Good session for you today and feeling strong too.

    Just wondered what Steve's view is on running slightly faster in runs like this. With it being only a 4 mile section I guess that is okay, rather than a 10 mile block?

     

  • I've had sports massages on and off for years. When I'm training heavily, like now, I try to get one every 3 or 4 weeks. I have to be a bit careful where I schedule them as I find it takes me a good few days to run well after one as I can feel quite tired and a bit battered in the muscle, so never have one in the week before a race. But they definitely help me to keep everything in check and stop anything that's tight becoming an issue.

    Everything is in pretty good shape bodily wise, my calves are quite tight so I need to watch them, probably still from the slight issue I had with them a couple of weeks back or possibly just from the XC at the weekend.

  • Hi AW, Steve MC et al

    I've been lurking for the last couple of weeks but thought I'd come forward to congratulate you on a great start. You've got a really good coach so take on board his advice!

    I'm personally going for a "London qualifying" 3.10 at Brighton this year so will follow your journey with interest. I've already found your thread useful so far as following talk on here of doing 2K reps (previously i've only just done mile reps) I've now incorporated these into my training.

    I'll be interested to see Ruth's continued feedback relating to your food diary. I've no idea how you are doing your weekly mileage based on your intake but that's more to do with me being a greedy pig i guess.

     

  • A.W wrote (see)

    Today's session was 10 miles at 7.30-8.00 min mile pace.

    Actual run today was 10 miles in 1.14.15, average pace of 7.26 a mile. Legs a little tired over the first couple of miles which were in the 8 min mile range. Felt really good from about the 3 mile point and really didn't feel like any effort to keep up the 7.30 mile pace. Felt pretty easy pace wise which surprised me a bit after yesterdays intervals, I expected the whole run to be a little hard work, not just the first couple of miles. A question for you Steve, or anyone else who might know. What energy drink or gel type product is available at feed stations at the Paris marathon? I'm thinking ahead to what I should trial in training, in previous marathons I've used about 4 SIS go gels which I take with me, but if there is something available on route that I can get on with I will use that. 

    Hi AW

    The marathon starts at 8.45am.

    Refreshments at 5,10,20,25, 30,35km but note this is only mineral water, fresh fruits and dried fruits. Powerade is likely to be only available at 33km (20.5 miles give or take) but this needs to be confirmed but this was the plan for last year and powerade are sponsors this year again. GU is the sponsored gel but I think you will only get this in expo pack NOT on course so will need to carry own. Sponges every 5km starting at 7.5km. I will need to keep a check that this won't change but in regards gels you are best to carry your own.

    Feel free to pop on more food diaries every now and again.

    Would be very interested to hear about what you eat after  long weekend run/race as a recovery snack/meal?

    Ruth

  • Another excellent training session AW - after a hard week that's more than enough at marathon pace at this stage in January.

    A massage is a very good idea

    Hi KR and Andy V - confident you will break 3:10 and happy to offer any help.

  • Hi AndyV - I could quite happily eat loads more than I do, but if I did my weight would start to climb. I'm currently in a good place at the moment and the amount I'm eating/training is maintaining my weight at a stable point (67-68kg). If this starts to change as the training gets heavier, and I start loosing weight, I will re adjust and increase my intake!image

    Historically I've been closer to 71kg when marathon training, but consciously wanted to reduce my body fat and having done so brought my weight down to the 67-68kg point and I don't think its a coincidence that my running has improved because of this.

  • Hi Ruth,

    Thanks for the info. I will start to trial some gels on my long runs and see what I get on with.

    I have a 19 miler scheduled for this Sunday so will report my food diary for that day so you can see that. I've been increasing my fluid intake, and really keeping an eye on time so I get an even distribution of food and energy throughout the day.

    Did my pre race breakfast that I posted look ok?

     

  • Hi Steve, feel really good today. So no real tiredness after the hard sessions, my calves feel a bit battered after my massage, but that's normal!!!!

    Can you re cap your suggestion for the structure of a fartlek session please including what sort of paces to try and hit? Would like to try it tomorrow as I feel when I set off on the last one I did'nt really get as much out of it as possible. In some ways I prefer interval sessions because I know exactly what reps and paces I need to do, so if I can get a loose structure for the fartlek session it will give me more focus.

  • AW - it must help being that bit lighter and, as you say, it can't be coincidence that you are running so well. It will be interesting to see how much you need to increase your intake nearer the marathon but if you are weighing yourself regularly and stable then it must be about right. Only 12 weeks to go now, isn't it?

  • Re: Weight.

    Fair point. I've gone from 68kg to c63kg over the last half year. My half PB was just under 1.32 at Reading (after 10 halfs) but post weight loss it went to 1.27 (on a tougher course (Windsor) and from a lower than normal training base). I don't think it was 100% due to the weight loss (eg more fast work undertaken) but it must have helped. 

     

  • Interesting about weight loss etc. I put on a bit of weight over Christmas which is slowly coming off. I think I was just over 62kg the other day and hope to get under 60 in the next couple of months. Hopefully the extra mileage will help, but also I am cutting any alchol during the week (and in moderation at the weekends), not drinking Coke and trying to cut down on the biscuits.

  • Blimey - how tall are you guys? I'm 76kg and that's the lowest I've been in quite a while. Back in the day when I was a runner I was 68kg but was a bag of bones! I think I'll probably drop to 73kg by the spring! If I go back to 68 I think my dog will think lunch has arrived everytime I walk through the door!

    Under 60 - wow!

  • Im only 5'7 but even then at 63kg most non runners seem to think ive become skin and bones recently.
  • Hi Andy, that was a good chunk to knock off your half PB!

    I am 5'6 on a good day, and probably about 5'7 with my cushioned ASICS Nimbus shoes onimage! I think as you get older it's harder to keep the weight off as the body's metabolism changes, but running certainly helps - particularly marathon traiing. Just running 6 - 7 days a week is good regular exercise.

    Sounds like the sports massage went well AW. I used to have mine on Firday too as it was a rest day, then a low key 5 miler on the Saturday.

  • I was concerned about the whole weight thing too DS2! I thought 78kg was ok however I have dropped from 85kg and managed to get my half time down from 1:26 to 1:23.

    Might look into sports massages A.W. Do you think they make a difference? Never really had one before. Do they hurt much? Glad to see your training is going well, though I still don't know how you manage to clock up so many miles. I think I am doing well if I break the 30 mile barrier for the week.....

     

  • AW - re fartlek

    one way of mixing speeds up is after warm up do 7 minutes at marathon pace, 1 min easy, 5 mins at HM pace, 1 min easy, 3 mins at 10K pace, 1 min easy, 2 mins at 5k pace, 1 min easy, 1 min at mile pace then repeat but after second 1 min at mile pace finish with 1 min easy then 7 mins at marathon pace.

  • weight does become harder to lose KR. I was 70-72kg for over 35 years from age 17 but last few years with less running and more injuries, it's been nearer 75kg. It was the motivation to do 50 miles on the bike today but have since been eating almost non stop!

    re sports massages - they should make a difference and sometimes they are good in that it can help foresee a problem ie tight calf or hamstring can be loosened before they become a more serious niggle.

  • I'm 5'11 so, 67-68 is about right for me. I think weight has an influence on our running and times, but obviously the speed work and running needs to be there too.

    The massage was good thanks KR, as always it involved a bit of wincing at points!!!!

    Stan - I would definitely give sports massages a try, they can be quite painful in a way, but are well worth the pain in my opinion! Its a nice pain in a way!

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