The Road to Paris - On a Plateau - Asics Target 26.2 Training

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Comments

  • Ady, I wouldn't use heat patches. If you've got inflammation behind the knee cap then heating it up is the last thing you want to do. Hopefully Sarah might add her view to this, but inflammation is generally addressed with ice. It's only when you're trying to promote healing of injured tissue after the initial phase taht you might use something like hot/cold alternating...

    Malcs wrote (see)

    Thanks Sam - just to confirm, I'm talking about sore legs during a run not after, in the latter miles of a long run. 

    Should I expect the point in a run at which the soreness begins to increase as training progresses or is it something you just have to put up with? At the moment mile 15 is where I really start to feel it. With some more mileage could I expect to be able to get that to mile 20 or beyond? For the next training day video can you overdub the screaming from the physio room with loud music or something? Nobody wants to hear grown men crying like small children image 

    Malcs, yep, I hear ya! The pain is genearlly a result of microtrauma, tiny tears and bleeding within the muscle fibres as a result of prolonged contracitons... As you get more accustomed to long runs, it will become less protracted and troublesome. But you'll probably never get away with it completely!

     

     

  • Ady - cheers muchly! I'm just trying to be very careful not to push it too much. I've not done so much speed work yet and I think that's why I've been able to get up to 20 this early. I really need to work on endurance so that's my focus.



    Though it sounds odd to say it I'm reassured to hear that the sore legs during a run is not just something I get. Thinking about it I recall getting it sooner in my long runs earlier in training too.



    Sam - thanks again for your answers on this issue. That all makes sense. I think in previous years I'd not done enough to get my legs used to the long stuff. I'm trying to rectify that this year so here's hoping!



    Ruth - thanks for your reply. I usually get the cramps around 20 miles but to be honest it's the nausea that is much more of a problem. I've never run a marathon in the cold but I have run 20 milers and felt absolutely fine - no cramps, no nausea. Clearly the heat doesn't agree with me image
  • Hi Ady, glad to see that you got a good run in at the weekend. Im aiming for a slow 20 this friday (after the last two weeks only doing around 15) but I have a 9 mile race on sunday as well to do.



    I was over the moon with my result and how I felt at Belvoir challenge as it was only 6 days after Barcelona. Despite taking it steady and enjoying it all the way round I didnt do too bad. I would certainly recommend it as a race to do.



    Loving the penguin picture...it gave me a good chuckle too after a long day at work.



    Hi Malcs, I watched all the videos on saturday night after your suggestion, they were really useful and informative, thankyou.



    Thankyou ruth...I cant work out if its a use by or best before date, so ive decided to stop playing the student and just throw them out...rather waist a couple of pounds than risk any stomach illness during training. Thankyou for the tips on pre race fuel, its been really helpful....we will be eating out the night before the race...but im going to choose wisely now, rather than just having something that I fancy.
  • Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary – Monday 25th February 2013

    6:50am - Breakfast - Fruit & Fibre Cereal w/ Semi-Skimmed Milk. Glass of tropical fruit juice.

    8:45am - Cup of tea

    10:45am - Bottle of water

    12:00pm - Lunch - Couscous with cucumber, radish, tomato, mange tout, feta cheese and Italian dressing. Bottle of water

    3:30pm - Clementine, cup of tea, bottle of water

    7:30pm - Dinner - Sunday Roast leftovers on a Monday! Pork, roast potatoes, cabbage with apple, roasted parsnips, onions and carrots, Bisto gravy granules. Pint of squash.

    8:30pm - Pint of squash, yoghurt, 1x Lindt Lindor chocolate

    10:00pm - 40 mins of Pilates and stretching (see separate post for full details)

    11:00pm - Glass of water.

  • Day 71 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (25/02/13)

    Target: Rest Day

    Actual: 40 minutes of Pilates and stretching.

    After my 18 miler the day before, I wasn't at all surprised that I woke up feeling a little achy and my knee had yet again become stiff. The only difference to the feeling I've had the previous few days is that the pulled quad wasn't giving me any trouble at all.

    I made a real effort during the morning to keep my leg stretched out even though I was sitting at my desk. Last week after my half marathon, my knee was sore and painful for a good 3 days afterwards. By lunch time today all soreness had disappeared. I was extremely surprised. Even going upstairs was more or less ache free. It was as though all the tightness had evaporated away.

    I' not sure why this was the case. It could be the trainers, or it could have been the visit to the physio last week. Whatever it was, by mid afternoon I was walking ache free for the first time in at least a month.

    To keep the recovery going, in the evening I focused on doing a few Pilates moves and extra stretching to what I would normally do. I followed the Core Workout in the Runner's World Complete Guide to Running Book. I'm not trying to plug the book at all, but I picked it up (it was a freebie we were given at boot camp) to see if there was any alternative workouts inside as I didn't fancy doing a whole yoga or Pilates DVD workout.

    There was a good section in side on core strength. As the lack of core strength is one of the reasons I suspect I'm suffering from knee trouble, I picked a few of the moves listed (including the Bridge, Superman and Plank) and worked these in to the stretches given by the physio last week. I finished off with 15 minutes using the foam roller.

    I am going to try and do at least 20 minutes of this as many evenings of the week as I possibly can from now until Paris My running is going well enough, but I feel I need to step it up another notch and focus on the core more as well. 

  • Day 72 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (26/02/13)

    Target: 5 miles comfortable @ 7:50m/m - 8:50m/m

    Actual: 5.28 miles in 40:19 @ 7:38m/m plus 20 mins of stretching

    Mile Splits: 1st @ 7:45m/m. 2nd @ 7:40m/m. 3rd @ 7:44m/m. 4th @ 7:44m/m. 5th @ 7:37m/m. Last 0.29 @ 6:24m/m

    Do you know what.............I think I can finally see a light at the end of the knee pain tunnel. Today was much, much better than any run I've been on in the past month. In fact, after I'd finished the run and spent a few hours sitting at my desk, I had no issue with aches and pains at all. Just as good was the fact that my injured quad seems to be more or less back to normal as I was able to run at a normal speed today and felt nothing.

    It's easy to feel down and negative with injuries and illness, especially when you can see how much they are affecting your training. It's not nice to run and know you aren't performing to your best due to not being fully fit.

    I felt strong today. I started off aiming at trying to run at about 8:10m/m, but as there was no tightness at all in my quad I was able to pick up the speed almost immediately. On Sunday when I ran I was thinking how on Earth was I going to run 40 seconds a mile faster for a full 26 miles. Today I got some of that confidence back as I was beating the low end of my pacing target comfortably on each mile.

    Once I'd reached 5 miles and with still 1/3 of a mile left back to the office, I decided to keep picking up the speed, testing my quad even more. When I felt nothing, I just kept going faster. I love finishing a run with a quick sprint finish and this was possibly the best I've had in a long time.

    Now the pain in my knee is going down and I'm starting to run pain free again, it does make me wonder how much of an issue my neutral trainers were causing me. Apart from a few extra stretches, this is the only thing I've changed and to see such an improvement over a short space of time does make you wonder.

    Like a spring lamb bounding across grassy fields, I have re-found this energy for my running and I don't think it could have come at a better time. I'm really looking forward now to the weekend training day and Spitfire 20.image

    Here's my run from today:

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/278007393

  • Xyloid wrote (see)

    I had just been watching the penguin programme on TV and your arms out at the sides like that just reminded me of the rock hoppers!  It was an added bonus that you were wearing black and white kit!  If I had Malcs skill at photoshop I would have added a bottle in each hand of the penguin to complete the picture, but I don't, so I didn't!

    Please don't start refraining from posting pictures of yourself.  All these posts about running malarky are all well and good but nothing beats an opportunity to take the mickey a little bit! image

    A little Rock Hopper you say! After having the pleasure of watching the penguin program in question , I'll take that as a compliment! I might have to make a mental note in future though of waht I'm doing with my arms when I'm running. I don;t want to get a reputation for flapping as I run!

    I swear, without a bit of humour and p*ss take, it wouldn't be half as interesting! Keep the comparisons coming! 

  • SamMurphyRuns wrote (see)

    Ady, I wouldn't use heat patches. If you've got inflammation behind the knee cap then heating it up is the last thing you want to do. Hopefully Sarah might add her view to this, but inflammation is generally addressed with ice. It's only when you're trying to promote healing of injured tissue after the initial phase taht you might use something like hot/cold alternating...

    Hey Sam.......I might have accidentally misled in my last comment. I have only been icing my knee. It was my quad where I've used a heat patch the last couple of days as it's started to feel better.

    It's been a lot better today actually - both my knee and quad. Hopefully it's finally on the mend! Just in time for training day. I might even be able to enjoy Sarah's massage now! image

  • Malcs wrote (see)
    Ady - cheers muchly! I'm just trying to be very careful not to push it too much. I've not done so much speed work yet and I think that's why I've been able to get up to 20 this early. I really need to work on endurance so that's my focus.

    Though it sounds odd to say it I'm reassured to hear that the sore legs during a run is not just something I get. Thinking about it I recall getting it sooner in my long runs earlier in training too.

    Malcs.....I hope you're getting ready for achy legs on Sunday. What time are you planning on getting there at Dunsfold? As per usual it seems Sunday is the only day of the week where all trains have been replaced by replacement buses, which means it'll be  anice early start for me. I think I should be getting there around 8ish. I will have no excuses this time around to get a good warm-up in!

    It makes sense that you're working on endurance as this is what you've struggled with in the past, Are you weekday runs all ran at different speeds? I think I read somewhere you're doing a medium long run during the week as well. How are you finding this? Do you think it's helping build up endurance? I have always worried this would tire me too much for my weekend long run.

  • Great to hear you're well on the mend Ady. Those are impressive splits so you have good reason to feel confident - really pleased for you.



    Interesting observation about shoes. As I said before, I just changed to shoes with some pronation support a few weeks back and since then my calf and achilles issues have been so much better. Aside from the shoes the only other thing That is different is I'm running a lot more.



    "Like a spring lamb bounding across grassy fields", hmm, did you really want to say that? Better hope Xyloid isn't watching any nature programmes this eveningimage
  • sarah osborne wrote (see)
    Hi Ady, glad to see that you got a good run in at the weekend. Im aiming for a slow 20 this friday (after the last two weeks only doing around 15) but I have a 9 mile race on sunday as well to do.

    I was over the moon with my result and how I felt at Belvoir challenge as it was only 6 days after Barcelona. Despite taking it steady and enjoying it all the way round I didnt do too bad. I would certainly recommend it as a race to do.

    Loving the penguin picture...it gave me a good chuckle too after a long day at work.

    Hi Malcs, I watched all the videos on saturday night after your suggestion, they were really useful and informative, thankyou.

    Thankyou ruth...I cant work out if its a use by or best before date, so ive decided to stop playing the student and just throw them out...rather waist a couple of pounds than risk any stomach illness during training. Thankyou for the tips on pre race fuel, its been really helpful....we will be eating out the night before the race...but im going to choose wisely now, rather than just having something that I fancy.

    Good luck on the 20 miler. When you say a slow 20 miler, how much slower than MP pace will you be doing it? I've been average MP+30 for almost all of my long runs. 

    Belvoir.......is that Leicestershire way? I remember going to play football there when I was a youngster. It must have taken you a while to get there? Do you travel far for your races normally?

  • I think about a lot of things when I'm running. Most of it would never be interesting enough to utter aloud to another breathing person. But there are a couple of running related topics that I have mulled over during my long runs over the weekend.

    Does KT Tape actually work? I came across this when looking for a way of continuing to run through my quad injury. Although I now know what a lot of professional sports people are wearing when you see them with brightly coloured tape all over their bodies, does it really make that much of a difference?

    Also they say a pair of trainers is good for as little as 250 miles before they need to be changed. So for runners who average 90 miles a week, does this mean they are buying new trainers every month? Being very tight-fisted, this is a god enough reason as any to deter me from building up my mileage even further! image

  • Must have posted at the same time.



    Definitely preparing for a bit of pain on Sunday! I'll be trying to get there early too, by 8:30 if I can. What route are you going by? If I can help with a lift let me know.



    I'm trying to mix speeds a bit but nothing too fast. I reckon the midweek long run is helping a lot. In previous years I haven't done nearly enough outside the long run. My first few 18-20 milers were always a real struggle but last week (though tough at the end) wasn't nearly as bad.



    I'm with you on the trainers - no way could bear forking out that often. Well I am Scottish born and raised in Yorkshire image
  • /members/images/385301/Gallery/LAMB_JUMPING_FOR_JOY_copy.jpg

    Look what I saw earlier today!

  • LOL - image. Nice one Paulo!

  • Hi Ady

    Glad to hear the knee is better and you're back to full training.

    As for the shoes... I got a new pair of mizunos after christmas from a Sweatshop. They asked me all sorts of questions including what sort of mileage I'm doing. They must've saved it on the system because to my surprise I got an email yesterday telling me that my shoes need to be replaced! It really made me chuckle. I do around 60-70mpw in mara training but there is absolutely nothing wrong with those shoes! They look almost brand new. I'm sure a lot depends on what sort of runner you are/ your weight and so on but I think the whole 300m rule is nothing more than a marketing ploy to get you to part with your cash more often.

  • Hi Ady

    Got to rush out for coaching session in a mo, but just wanted to say how pleased I am that your knee and quad issues seem to be on their way out. Just in time, huh?! image See you Saturday bright'n'early! I bet everyone brings flasks this time, after the coffee debacle last time! I could do - am styaing in hotel the night before but could always make a fresh brew in the morning....

  • Thankyou Ady. I have been doing my long runs between 30-50 min/ml slower than my MP. I will probably try to keep it at the slower end on fri to allow my legs to recover better for the race on Sunday.



    Belvoir is in Leicestershire. Took us 90 mins to get there from Maltby. I do tend to travel a distance to my races from York, but there normally closer to my parents in Sheffield. The running club im in have a few favourites which involve a weekend away e.g isle of skye in June which I like to do.



    Glad that your knee and quad is better and that your back on form. Good luck for sunday.



    Nice pic Paulo...keep them coming!
  • Paulo83 wrote (see)
    /members/images/385301/Gallery/LAMB_JUMPING_FOR_JOY_copy.jpg

    Look what I saw earlier today!

    Highly amusing. I look forward to the next comparison! If only I actually looked like this when I ran........I'd have no problem jumping my way to a sub 3:30! I'm actually glad you were nice enough to choose a picture of my face smiling, rather than a gormless one!

    How's your leg doing now? I hope it's cleared up now and you're back into the swing of things and have progressed from cross-training.

    I managed my 6 mile progressive run with few problems today, which was motivating. I'm still getting a few pains in my knee though, so it's not cleared up as well as I thought it had. On a positive though, the pain is now in a different position than it was before. It's nowhere near as bad as it was and it just aches slightly. It was well within my threshold and it didn't affect my running or technique.

    Unfortunately I've ran out of time to catch up with posts this evening. I'll have to catch up with this tomorrow now. 

  • Glad to hear ur on the mend. I was given the all clear to get back out there on Monday. Iv just done a 2, 4 and 6 miler this week. All very slow. The calf is feeling ok but not good so think I will just keep going with these short slow runs for now and forget about doing anymore speed work before the big day! Think I'm likey to to more damage than improve if I do any more fast sessions.



    I asked a physio friend of mine about KT tape and she said it should be applied by someone that's had training in it as it should be applied at the correct tension and in the correct position. Has anyone tried applying it themselves and had any results?
  • Paulo - If you check out the official KT site there are instructional videos on how to apply for various injuries/support, I have been using KT tape for a while for my calf which has caused me problems in the past.  It was doing the job until Wokingham HM a couple of weeks ago, during the race it was OK but ever since it's been giving me problems and has curtailed my running temporarily just x training.  Now invested in some 2XU compression calf guards.

  • Hi Ady

    Glad to hear that your injury free now and over the niggles. Well done on the continued weight loss. 

    I just thought that a 20 week plan would allow for any missed sessions if illness or injury strikes. It also gives me more room to play around with different sessions I want to incoporate. 

    Thanks Sam. A quick question, as I am going to start my training sooner what would you recommend the first weekly long run be at?

     

  • Hi Ksizzlepod, it totally depends on what your customary run distance is. I normally take someone's current 'long' run (even if it isn't very long!) and add around 10-15 minutes to it. So for eg. if you were doing 7 miles, you might end up doing 8 or 8.5. 

    Your 'start point' depends on where you are when you embark on your training and should never be arbitary. Hope that helps.

     

    Ady, look forward to catching up on Saturday!

    image

  • For the first time in living memory, I actually managed to escape from work early (well before 7pm!). Hopefully now I'll have time to catch up on messages and training reports from the past few days. I'll stay clear of any animal references this time around! image

  • Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary – Tuesday 26th February 2013

    6:50am - Breakfast - Fruit & Fibre Cereal w/ Semi-Skimmed Milk.

    8:45am - Cup of tea, bottle of water

    10:45am - Banana, bottle of water

    12:00pm - 5.28 mile run in 40:19 @ 7:38m/m (see earlier for full description)

    1:15pm - Lunch - Couscous with cucumber, radish, tomato, mange tout, roast pork and Italian dressing. Bottle of water

    3:30pm - Clementine, cup of tea, bottle of water

    5:30pm - Cup of tea, apple

    8:00pm - Dinner - Bean soup with grilled cheese sandwich, leftover taco shell while I was waiting for the soup to warm up. Pint of squash.

    8:30pm - Pint of squash, yoghurt, 1x Lindt Lindor chocolate

    10:00pm - 20 mins of stretching.

    11:00pm - Glass of water.

  • yes definitely thanks Sam

     

     

  • Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary – Wednesday 27th February 2013

    If you put all my food diaries next to each other, I think 99% of people will have fallen asleep by the third page...........there's a lot of similarities day by day. At least today's had a few extra's in thanks to my company darts tournament. In good old Andy Fordham style, you can't play darts without enjoying one or two bottles of illicit brew!

    6:50am - Breakfast - Fruit & Fibre Cereal w/ Semi-Skimmed Milk.

    9:00am - Cup of tea, bottle of water

    11:15am - Banana, bottle of water

    12:00pm - 6.21 mile run in 47:24 @ 7:38m/m (see separate post for full description)

    1:15pm - Lunch - Couscous with cucumber, radish, tomato, mange tout and Italian dressing. Bottle of water. Definitely not enough substance after today's run!

    2:30pm - Clementine, cup of tea, bottle of water

    3:30pm - Packet of Quavers (took the healthy option after putting down the McCoys!), Medium Costa Hot chocolate

    7:30pm - Dinner - Chicken curry with rice, mango chutney, naan bread, poppadom, 2 bottles of Old Speckled Hen ale (all part of the free spread put on by my company at our darts tournament).

    9:00pm - Pint of squash, yoghurt, 1x Lindt Lindor chocolate

    10:30pm - Pint of water

  • Day 73 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (27/02/13)

    Target: 6 miles progressive around marathon pace (8:10m/m-7:20m/m)

    Actual: 6.21 miles in 47:24 @ 7:38m/m (exactly the same as yesterday's pace!)

    Mile Splits: 1st @ 8:04m/m. 2nd @ 7:53m/m. 3rd @ 7:49m/m. 4th @ 7:33m/m. 5th @ 7:24m/m. 6th @ 7:16m/m. Last 0.21 @ 6:44m/m

    It's nice to be running again without too many niggles. After my runs last weekend I was worried that it might take a while to build back up my speed - not only from missing some of my speed sessions, but also expecting my injured quad to still be too tight for fast runs for at least another week. But after today, I'm surprised how quickly I've fallen back into the normal rhythm of training.

    Progressive training sessions are definitely my favourite sessions I do. It allows for a nice gentle start before cranking it up through the gears. I always like a sprint finish, and these types of runs allow you to do this without any feelings of guilt.

    As per usual I tried to come in each mile at just under my prescribed pace target. The first two miles were easy, but as always the third mile was the toughest of the whole run. This is because after a small downhill section just before the 3rd mile starts, it's then predominantly uphill for the first half mile and then again for the last quarter of a mile. I always find it hard to go from a nice relaxed downhill pace, to a faster pace going uphill.

    Once the third mile is over, I know the hard work is already done and I can start to stretch out, knowing that the last three miles are more downhill than uphill. I was half expecting to feel something from my knee or quad today, but both seemed to be keeping a low profile.

    I always make sure I run slightly more than what I'm told to run. It's not because I'm a rebel and think I know best. I love finishing with a sprint finish. I've also read that finishing a run quickly does wonders for your metabolism and encourages your body to burn calories at a faster rate once the run is over. Plus it's a good confidence booster as well!

    Today's overall average pace was exactly the same as yesterdays. Now I've managed two runs averaging under 8:00m/m, I'm not so worried at all about any loss of speed. I can't wait to see what pace I'm going to be given for Spitfire on Sunday.

    Here's today's run:

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/278370119

  • Malcs wrote (see)
    Must have posted at the same time.

    Definitely preparing for a bit of pain on Sunday! I'll be trying to get there early too, by 8:30 if I can. What route are you going by? If I can help with a lift let me know.

    I'm trying to mix speeds a bit but nothing too fast. I reckon the midweek long run is helping a lot. In previous years I haven't done nearly enough outside the long run. My first few 18-20 milers were always a real struggle but last week (though tough at the end) wasn't nearly as bad.

    I'm with you on the trainers - no way could bear forking out that often. Well I am Scottish born and raised in Yorkshire image

    Hey Malcs.............With your new trainers and increasing mileage, it sounds like you'll manage Sunday's 20 miles with ease. Do you know what pacing you'll be doing for this? I'm interested to see wht Sam prescribes for me at training day this Saturday.

    I'll be catching the train from Woking to Godalming. Well when I say train.....I'll be catching the replacement bus service from Woking to Godalming, and then the plan is taking a taxi from there to Dunsfold airfield and the start. If your happening on passing through Godalming trian station on your way to the start and fancy picking up  a helpless runner, then your charity would be gratefully received. image Thanks very much for your offer. But if you aren't then don't worry about going out of your way. I'm sure there will be a few other runners arriving at the station so I can just catch a lift with them to the start. It might be easier to do this as I think by bus gets to Godalming about 7:30 or so.

    Regarding the long run, it's definitely something I will try in future marathon training plans. During some midweek runs of this training plan I've gone up to over 9 miles, so it wouldn;t be that much difference to be honest. I presume 10 miles can be classed as a medium long run!

  • Brolish wrote (see)

    Hi Ady

    Glad to hear the knee is better and you're back to full training. As for the shoes... I got a new pair of mizunos after christmas from a Sweatshop. They asked me all sorts of questions including what sort of mileage I'm doing. They must've saved it on the system because to my surprise I got an email yesterday telling me that my shoes need to be replaced! It really made me chuckle. I do around 60-70mpw in mara training but there is absolutely nothing wrong with those shoes! They look almost brand new. I'm sure a lot depends on what sort of runner you are/ your weight and so on but I think the whole 300m rule is nothing more than a marketing ploy to get you to part with your cash more often.

    Hi Brolish.......I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks changing trainers after 250 miles seems like a waste of a good pair of trainers. My last pair got me through 3 marathons, an ultra and 5 months of training. I do think this might be taking the life of a trainer a little too far though!

    Normally when I feel I've ran too many miles in a pair of trainers, they then become my gym trainers or ones I use to play squash or tennis. 

    I used to wear Mizuno Wave, but then went over to New Balance. I'm not that committed when it comes to trainers!

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